Scottish Independence

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Which version of "nationalism" do you mean?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Please don’t tell me you’re talking about “ethnic” and “civic”. Please...

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That was from a couple of months ago and the full context was that Brexit and Scottish independence were both divisive and that nationalism didn’t provide the answers to the challenges of today, let alone tomorrow.

Still, it will bring up a lot of the Yes brethren to full-on beelin’

It does touch upon an interesting point though.

Scotland, as many would define it is a rather arbitrary and new ‘thing’. The idea of nation states is very recent in the history of mankind, the idea of liberal democracy even newer. Do we really think that nationalism has much in the way of a shelf life? It seems to be one of the biggest barriers to addressing global problems and likewise one of the biggest causes.

Cole Hamilton has no problem with nationalism. He has UK flags all over his constituency shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cole Hamilton has no problem with nationalism. He has UK flags all over his constituency shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does he? That's quite funny. I suppose he would argue that he doesn't buy into the whole 'reject separation makes you a British nationalist' thing.

I assume he is your MSP, is he any good? He seems to have boosted the Lib Dem vote whilst there. A very different demographic from when Lord James was repping at Westminster

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Please don’t tell me you’re talking about “ethnic” and “civic”. Please...

Quite in insulting response.


I was asking what version you meant.

There is a spectrum, you've dismissed a couple of versions already.

What version of nationalism do you think the SNP seeks?

Which versions "aren't the answer" in a global economy

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Quite in insulting response.


I was asking what version you meant.

There is a spectrum, you've dismissed a couple of versions already.

What version of nationalism do you think the SNP seeks?

Which versions "aren't the answer" in a global economy

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

That was what Cole-Hamilton said. I said something different.

As for 'versions', I don't have a version. And I certainly don't speak for SNP members, I probably subscribe to Foucault in that it is post-modernist and a social construction.

As for "an insulting response", oh please. I asked a question sincerely hoping you weren't going to roll out the old stuff about 'civic nationalism' and how it''s actually okay. On reflection, you tend to be a better poster than that so maybe my alarm was unfounded.

But I'm genuinely curious - do you think that nationalism or indeed the nation-state offers a solution to the challenges our planet faces? Surely that's looking backwards not forwards?

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does he? That's quite funny. I suppose he would argue that he doesn't buy into the whole 'reject separation makes you a British nationalist' thing.

I assume he is your MSP, is he any good? He seems to have boosted the Lib Dem vote whilst there. A very different demographic from when Lord James was repping at Westminster

Never met the man so couldn’t give a personal opinion. Most people I know who have had dealing with him are that he is a typical Tory who wears yellow to get elected. That’s not to say he hasn’t sometimes been helpful. He helped a mate with a small issue that he had. Nothing major but not nothing. I’m sure every MSP would have a similar story. Personally I know he would not be the type of person I could ever take to based on how people have described him to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That was what Cole-Hamilton said. I said something different.

As for 'versions', I don't have a version. And I certainly don't speak for SNP members, I probably subscribe to Foucault in that it is post-modernist and a social construction.

As for "an insulting response", oh please. I asked a question sincerely hoping you weren't going to roll out the old stuff about 'civic nationalism' and how it''s actually okay. On reflection, you tend to be a better poster than that so maybe my alarm was unfounded.

But I'm genuinely curious - do you think that nationalism or indeed the nation-state offers a solution to the challenges our planet faces? Surely that's looking backwards not forwards?

Is there anything but the nation state on offer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is there anything but the nation state on offer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm with Charles Kettering on this one (even though he would be considered an environmental war criminal in our age)

"Our imagination is the only limit to what we can hope to have in the future".

I think the important point is that we all too often entwine ourselves to old and/or established ideas, and mistrust the new ones. It should be the other way around. I would guess the vast majority of posters on this thread were born no more than thirty years after the end of the second world war. Two devastating wars in the space of thirty years and a good few centuries of regular armed conflict preceding that, including the Thirty Years War, possibly the worst in relative terms. Yet western and central Europe has enjoyed relative peace since then because the actors abandoned elements of the nation-state to bind economically and socio-politically.

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet western and central Europe has enjoyed relative peace since then because the actors abandoned elements of the nation-state to bind economically and socio-politically.

Which is what the SNP continually and repeatedly has promised to rejoin. Unlike the Tories and Starmer's Labour. Are you sure you're supporting the right party?

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Which is what the SNP continually and repeatedly has promised to rejoin. Unlike the Tories and Starmer's Labour. Are you sure you're supporting the right party?

The EU was far from perfect as an institution, though I firmly voted for Remain. But to take your point, I never heard a single thing from the SNP or the Yes lobby in 2014, or since, that reassured me we wouldn't be at risk of being absolutely ragdolled like Greece was.

The European situation is a mess for us IMO. But again, we chouldn't think of it as static. There's a natural evolution to bring in Turkey, the South Caucasus states and the North African nations. alternatively, there is acknowledging what's true - that the EU as it stands is a hotch-potch of arrangements, involving some, none or all of membership of the Council of Europe, the OSCE, the customs union, the Euro etc etc.

We were talking about hate earlier and something that really angers me about Brexit was that if Scotland did become independent, we wouldn't have the same heft as the UK did have. That seems unfair but we have ended up trying to make the most of it. And I think we can.

Anyway, you should be smoking a cigar and sipping a brandy. Do you not keep telling me Starmer goes back on his word? So when he says Brexit is closed, that surely means when he gets the keys to Number 10 on the Thursday we will be getting paid in Euros by the weekend

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is there anything but the nation state on offer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is in this country. The Sovereign Individual. With the Nat-C rally yesterday and Farage on newsnight attacking the Tories for not being "isolationist" (he means racist) enough they seem to be doubling down on their favoured distraction. The other option, leaving aside the theoretical, is conglomerates of nation states acting together. The biggest problem the planet has is climate change, some politicians in our govt think fracking is the answer to that, which is just another distraction put out as they don't govern the country in good faith. The answer to any global problem is co-operation, nation states are perfectly capable of that if they have good intentions towards their own populaces. That's not something I see in the current UK. The more wrecking the better for them and the more sovereign individuals can disentangle themselves from the social contract.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do you not keep telling me Starmer goes back on his word? So when he says Brexit is closed, that surely means when he gets the keys to Number 10 on the Thursday we will be getting paid in Euros by the weekend

Well of course I hope this is the case. But I'd rather not vote for someone who feels he has to lie in order to win over the electorate.

[Ozyhibby]

Support for Indy remains strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...s-poll-4155666

SNP set to lose seats though. Down to 40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy Bee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...s-poll-4155666

SNP set to lose seats though. Down to 40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some other polls showing SNP losing up to 23 seats with all but a complete wipeout in Glasgow. With as much importance put on these polls I don't get how they get away with being so different. They're effectively meaningless.

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...s-poll-4155666

SNP set to lose seats though. Down to 40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yougov much worse for snp, a large poll aswel over 3.5k

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23542575.new-yougov-mrp-poll-predicts-snp-wipe-glasgow/

Humza Yousaf would lose nearly all of his Glasgow and Lanarkshire MPs, with his party winning 27 constituencies, down considerably from the 48 won under Nicola Sturgeon in 2019.

Losers would include the party’s deputy leader at Westminster, Mhairi Black, with her Paisley and Renfrewshire South seat heading back to Labour

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yougov much worse for snp, a large poll aswel over 3.5k

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...-wipe-glasgow/

Humza Yousaf would lose nearly all of his Glasgow and Lanarkshire MPs, with his party winning 27 constituencies, down considerably from the 48 won under Nicola Sturgeon in 2019.

Losers would include the party’s deputy leader at Westminster, Mhairi Black, with her Paisley and Renfrewshire South seat heading back to Labour

Ipsos tend to be most accurate though? Yougov not exactly useless though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Some other polls showing SNP losing up to 23 seats with all but a complete wipeout in Glasgow. With as much importance put on these polls I don't get how they get away with being so different. They're effectively meaningless.

They are good for trends and poll of polls better. They matched the English local elections very well. Some on here said yougov was pretty accurate for Scotland. I think snp will come back a bit nearer election but you would be mad to bet against them losing seats

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They are good for trends and poll of polls better. They matched the English local elections very well. Some on here said yougov was pretty accurate for Scotland. I think snp will come back a bit nearer election but you would be mad to bet against them losing seats

I think it’s almost impossible for them not to lose seats. 2019 was a cracking result for the SNP.
And 2021 Holyrood election was also an excellent result.
It will be very difficult for the SNP to match those results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think it’s almost impossible for them not to lose seats. 2019 was a cracking result for the SNP.
And 2021 Holyrood election was also an excellent result.
It will be very difficult for the SNP to match those results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's levels though. Lose one or two understandable, lose 10 and you can't dress it up as anything other than a disaster.

Problem is all polls are travelling one way and haven't found their bottom so far. They need to and start turning back soon

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There's levels though. Lose one or two understandable, lose 10 and you can't dress it up as anything other than a disaster.

Problem is all polls are travelling one way and haven't found their bottom so far. They need to and start turning back soon

I agree that they need to get a grip of the situation. It’s improving over last couple of weeks but they’ll need to wait until end of Police investigation. They still have 18 months till an election though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

Trident: MoD confirms more than 50 radiation leaks this year | The National

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has revealed there were 15 recorded radiation leaks at Coulport and a further 43 at Faslane in 2023 as of April – but said none were considered “serious”.

pheeeww, thank goodness they weren't serious though

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Trident: MoD confirms more than 50 radiation leaks this year | The National

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has revealed there were 15 recorded radiation leaks at Coulport and a further 43 at Faslane in 2023 as of April – but said none were considered “serious”.

pheeeww, thank goodness they weren't serious though

Surprised they even tell us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

From yesterday’s Ipsos poll.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Anyone got an update on the police investigation into SNP finances? When will Nicola be sentenced?

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Anyone got an update on the police investigation into SNP finances? When will Nicola be sentenced?

Still trying to work out who’s Amazon vouchers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

Surprised it's not been mentioned on here yet - AUOB calling Humza 'reactionary' and 'contemptuous'.

Anyone able to say whether that's fair comment? It's certainly strong language to use about our First Minister.

[cabbageandribs1875]

article in todays Herald, i won't believe it until state TV report it

Is Douglas Ross happy to see Scottish economy success?: Ian McConnell | HeraldScotland

[Bristolhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yougov much worse for snp, a large poll aswel over 3.5k

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23542575.new-yougov-mrp-poll-predicts-snp-wipe-glasgow/

Humza Yousaf would lose nearly all of his Glasgow and Lanarkshire MPs, with his party winning 27 constituencies, down considerably from the 48 won under Nicola Sturgeon in 2019.

Losers would include the party’s deputy leader at Westminster, Mhairi Black, with her Paisley and Renfrewshire South seat heading back to Labour

Can’t see how Black would lose that. She’s a very popular MP.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65719108

You can have devolution so long as you do the exact same thing as us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk