The Trans Rights Debate

[He's here!]

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia...3f680f0663f0e5

I note that the transgender rules in cycling are leading women to quit the sport.

[He's here!]

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,j...w-is-cancelled

Rowling backs Cherry over 'modern McCarthyism'.

[HappyAsHellas]

Basically the Stand are confirming their support of Nazis by denying a speaker they don't agree with. Follows on from the university banning a film last week. The new far right in the guise of wokery. What's next, burning books?

[Ozyhibby]

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Basically the Stand are confirming their support of Nazis by denying a speaker they don't agree with. Follows on from the university banning a film last week. The new far right in the guise of wokery. What's next, burning books?

Did the university ban a film?
And the Stand is a private business entitled to take whatever bookings it likes.
I don’t agree with their stance though.

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[archie]

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Did the university ban a film?
And the Stand is a private business entitled to take whatever bookings it likes.
I don’t agree with their stance though.

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The University cancelled the film because of security concerns. A private business can book who they like, but they cancelled Joanne Cherry in a way that could be discriminatory.

[Ozyhibby]

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The University cancelled the film because of security concerns. A private business can book who they like, but they cancelled Joanne Cherry in a way that could be discriminatory.

So the film wasn’t banned?
I disagree with the protesters and the people at the club but let’s not start trying to portray this as something it’s not.


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[archie]

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So the film wasn’t banned?
I disagree with the protesters and the people at the club but let’s not start trying to portray this as something it’s not.


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It was cancelled because of fear of violence. It's not seeing the film that was the key part It was denying people the chance to meet and discuss it. That's not OK. As for the Stand, do you disbelieve Joanna Cherry? Ask Glasgow and Edinburgh councils about how they got on in court after cancelling events where they didn't like the speakers views.

[Ozyhibby]

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It was cancelled because of fear of violence. It's not seeing the film that was the key part It was denying people the chance to meet and discuss it. That's not OK. As for the Stand, do you disbelieve Joanna Cherry? Ask Glasgow and Edinburgh councils about how they got on in court after cancelling events where they didn't like the speakers views.

Councils are public bodies though. Joanna Cherry should book a council venue.
She should be allowed the freedom to speak and the Stand venue should be allowed the freedom not to want it on their premises. There will be no shortage of venues willing to book her.


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[HappyAsHellas]

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So the film wasn’t banned?
I disagree with the protesters and the people at the club but let’s not start trying to portray this as something it’s not.


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When you have masked protestors stopping people entering an event I'd call it fascism.

[Ozyhibby]

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When you have masked protestors stopping people entering an event I'd call it fascism.

That’s a police matter. It’s not the universities fault though. They were going to show the film.


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[archie]

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Councils are public bodies though. Joanna Cherry should book a council venue.
She should be allowed the freedom to speak and the Stand venue should be allowed the freedom not to want it on their premises. There will be no shortage of venues willing to book her.


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She was booked by the Stand then cancelled because of her views.

[CropleyWasGod]

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She was booked by the Stand then cancelled because of her views.

She wasn't booked by them. It was part of a series booked by a third party.

https://www.thestand.co.uk/statement-may-1

[archie]

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She wasn't booked by them. It was part of a series booked by a third party.

https://www.thestand.co.uk/statement-may-1

But they made a decision not to allow her to speak at the event. A private business can book who they like, but they can't act in a discriminatory way. Imagine the staff had said they felt uncomfortable in the presence of a black person.

[Ozyhibby]

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But they made a decision not to allow her to speak at the event. A private business can book who they like, but they can't act in a discriminatory way. Imagine the staff had said they felt uncomfortable in the presence of a black person.

The didn’t though. They said they didn’t like her views. That’s allowed.


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[archie]

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The didn’t though. They said they didn’t like her views. That’s allowed.


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Is it?

[archie]

https://judiciary.scot/home/sentence...20its%20values.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Imagine the staff had said they felt uncomfortable in the presence of a black person.

But their issue isn't with her race, it's with her views. Should staff be any more comfortable with transphobic people as opposed to racist people?

[archie]

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But their issue isn't with her race, it's with her views. Should staff be any more comfortable with transphobic people as opposed to racist people?

The point is discrimination against someone with a protected characteristic. Would you be ok with racist staff refusing to work when the venue had been booked by a black person.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The point is discrimination against someone with a protected characteristic. Would you be ok with racist staff refusing to work when the venue had been booked by a black person.

What protected characteristic does JC have, that is the basis for discrimination in this case?

[McD]

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The point is discrimination against someone with a protected characteristic. Would you be ok with racist staff refusing to work when the venue had been booked by a black person.

She doesn’t have a protected characteristic, she has views about protected characteristics.


i don’t agree with the decision made by the stand, but they aren’t breaking the law.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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The point is discrimination against someone with a protected characteristic. Would you be ok with racist staff refusing to work when the venue had been booked by a black person.

Transphobic views are not a protected characteristic. Again, you're making false equivalences. You can't equate the negative judgement towards a person with transphobic views with the negative judgement towards a person because of their skin colour.

[Hibrandenburg]

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When you have masked protestors stopping people entering an event I'd call it fascism.

There's a bit more to fascism that wearing masks and denying people access to something. I'm sure the left wear masks too and are partial to a bit of a stooshie.

[archie]

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What protected characteristic does JC have, that is the basis for discrimination in this case?

Recent cases that may be relevant https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y-implications

[archie]

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Transphobic views are not a protected characteristic. Again, you're making false equivalences. You can't equate the negative judgement towards a person with transphobic views with the negative judgement towards a person because of their skin colour.

Well you frame it as transphobic which is a contested term. But no one is arguing that.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Well you frame it as transphobic which is a contested term. But no one is arguing that.

Transphobia is no more "contested" than racism, sexism or antisemitism.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When you have masked protestors stopping people entering an event I'd call it fascism.

Someone on another thread described TRA's as "radical left".

Which is it, just so I know which badges to wear?

[He's here!]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...b4b1f96c091d75

The Stand have acted illegally according uo Roddy Dunlop.

As for India Willoughby's comments about the KKK...what a moron.

Cherry's party colleagues Robertson and Sheppard notably remaining silent.

As Macwhirter says, the Stand have picked the wrong fight here with the likes of Cherry. Good on her for standing up to this nonsense.

[He's here!]

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But their issue isn't with her race, it's with her views. Should staff be any more comfortable with transphobic people as opposed to racist people?

Cherry's views are not transphobic. She simply differentiates between biological sex and gender identity, which is a perfectly rational view.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Cherry's views are not transphobic. She simply differentiates between biological sex and gender identity, which is a perfectly rational view.

If that was simply the case, there wouldn't be a problem. But it isn't, as you know. She's fine with people assigning their own gender identity, but she doesn't want it to be legally recognised if it deviates from their biological sex, which creates numerous implications when it comes to the rights of transgender people.

[archie]

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What protected characteristic does JC have, that is the basis for discrimination in this case?

Well I'm not a KC, but quotes from her in this Guardian piece https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/02/snp-mp-joanna-cherry-says-she-has-been-cancelled-over-gender-views?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other