SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Smartie]

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I respectively disagree with that.

Not proven, IMO , offered a safeguard to ensuring only those who we are almost certain beyond reasonable doubt are guilty.

It's a very fine balancing act, but my opinion is that the overall burden should fall on those doing that prosecution to prove someone is guilty, rather than a judge or jury going on a feeling or a gut instinct, which I think not proven protected against.

They'll be legal minds with far better inside into it than mine on the pros and cons, but that's my two tuppence worth

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I agree with you. As you say, a very fine line, but I think it's more than just a quirk of Scots Law.

Part of what makes me uncomfortable about it is the fact that it is unique to Scotland.

Rather than it being a historical legacy quirk that we have to either continue or abolish, do you believe that it's a good enough idea that every legal system in the world who don't employ it (ie all of them), should?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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Exactly, no one has claimed that the modern SNP is fascist in any way, shape or form, however many of the founding members of the SNP in the 1930's were involved in some very questionable activities before and during WW2, including Hugh MacDiarmid, who wrote "A plea for a Scottish Fascism" and a "Programme for a Scottish Fascism". Hugh MacDiarmid also felt that a Nazi invasion of England was "in Scotland's best interests". For this reason the modern SNP should quietly stop the wearing of the white rose in parliament.

https://thinkscotland.org/2022/05/th...m-anglophobia/

Winston Churchill also felt that a Nazi invasion of Scotland would somehow be in England's best interests if they simply allowed them to have Scotland. That was of course until he found out that the Nazi invasion was never going to stop at Scotland.

[He's here!]

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How would it affect the rest of the UK?

It wouldn't. If anything it would align this aspect of Scots Law more with Engish Law.

[Berwickhibby]

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Winston Churchill also felt that a Nazi invasion of Scotland would somehow be in England's best interests if they simply allowed them to have Scotland. That was of course until he found out that the Nazi invasion was never going to stop at Scotland.

You will to show me a link to that, as this is a first for me, I googled but could not find anything

[TrumpIsAPeado]

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You will to show me a link to that, as this is a first for me, I googled but could not find anything

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-s...82106339089564

[Kato]

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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-s...82106339089564

"Our precious Union".

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[Berwickhibby]

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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-s...82106339089564

No direct quotes or orders and some historian believes 🙄

[archie]

It is utter rubbish. Why on earth would Britain want to give Germany a foothold in Scotland to pummel the rest of the country? It would also surrender control of the north Atlantic and therefore the ability to ship material from the US and Canada. It stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever. But I know you won't believe me. Here's the author who was misquoted in the DM article https://gordon-barclay.net/blog/myth...ndon-scotland/

[grunt]

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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-s...82106339089564

It was spread very widely by the prominent nationalist blogger Wings over Scotland ...

[Since90+2]

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Part of what makes me uncomfortable about it is the fact that it is unique to Scotland.

Rather than it being a historical legacy quirk that we have to either continue or abolish, do you believe that it's a good enough idea that every legal system in the world who don't employ it (ie all of them), should?

I don't know enough about other legals systems and their balances and checks to comment. They possibly have a higher threshold for original prosecution for example.

I just fundamentally believe that if it can't be proved beyond reasonable doubt almost to the point of someone being certain a person's guilt, then it should be a not proven ve verdict.

[archie]

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"Our precious Union".

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Taking the Daily Mail as gospel are we?

[Berwickhibby]

It was spread very widely by the prominent nationalist blogger Wings over Scotland ...

If it came from that horrible parasite then I know it’s utter nonsense

[Kato]

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Taking the Daily Mail as gospel are we?

Yeah, we should stop that.

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[He's here!]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...ooms-0lcpcpfxb

Is it strange that nobody wants to take on this job? Strikes me as unusual that thd party of government in Scotland would be reduced to cold calling auditors.

[greenlex]

Having been on the wrong end of a not proven verdict I can say without doubt it’s since then been a personal bugbear of mine.
I wasn’t guilty but had a devils own job proving that. Just as the prosecution could obviously not prove guilt on my part. I’ve since always thought that in some people’s eyes I was guilty. It really grates with me. Guilt should be proved. End off. Guilty or not guilty. Not proven is a cop out.

[CropleyWasGod]

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...ooms-0lcpcpfxb

Is it strange that nobody wants to take on this job? Strikes me as unusual that thd party of government in Scotland would be reduced to cold calling auditors.

Given the policies of ICAS and ICAEW on confidentiality, I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of whoever leaked such an email, if it exists.

[Santa Cruz]

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Having been on the wrong end of a not proven verdict I can say without doubt it’s since then been a personal bugbear of mine.
I wasn’t guilty but had a devils own job proving that. Just as the prosecution could obviously not prove guilt on my part. I’ve since always thought that in some people’s eyes I was guilty. It really grates with me. Guilt should be proved. End off. Guilty or not guilty. Not proven is a cop out.

Totally agree, What happened to you is one reason I'd support abolishing it, the other being the complainer has just went through the ordeal of a court trial with no outcome delivered one way or another. It seems like everyone involved is just left in limbo.

[archie]

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Given the policies of ICAS and ICAEW on confidentiality, I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of whoever leaked such an email, if it exists.

Excuse my ignorance, but if unsolicited e mails are sent out, is there anything explicit as to the duties of the data controller of the organisation receiving them?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Excuse my ignorance, but if unsolicited e mails are sent out, is there anything explicit as to the duties of the data controller of the organisation receiving them?

Confidentiality regarding clients, (current, past and potential) is at the heart of any CA practice. Nothing can be disclosed without their consent, or if forced by legal process.

[archie]

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Confidentiality regarding clients, (current, past and potential) is at the heart of any CA practice. Nothing can be disclosed without their consent, or if forced by legal process.

Thanks.

[He's here!]

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Confidentiality regarding clients, (current, past and potential) is at the heart of any CA practice. Nothing can be disclosed without their consent, or if forced by legal process.

Do you qualify as a potential client by sending a cold call email, even if the recipient has no interest in taking you on?

[Ozyhibby]

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Do you qualify as a potential client by sending a cold call email, even if the recipient has no interest in taking you on?

I would think so.


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[danhibees1875]

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Do you qualify as a potential client by sending a cold call email, even if the recipient has no interest in taking you on?

Was it you that leaked the email?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Do you qualify as a potential client by sending a cold call email, even if the recipient has no interest in taking you on?

Absolutely.

[Stairway 2 7]

Leak probably from the other end as there is a constant stream of stuff coming out from internal meetings ect

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/bbcdouglasf/stat...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Bit of good news.


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[grunt]

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https://twitter.com/bbcdouglasf/stat...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

Bit of good news.

Gray shouldn't be in Osaka without a UK Government minder.

[He's here!]

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That's interesting.

I know it's incredibly contentious here in Scotland, but I remember the subject of the uniquely Scottish "not proven" verdict coming up in the Netflix series version of "The Staircase". It was put forward as an excellent example of what can be done when a judge thinks someone is guilty but that there is insufficient evidence to prove it - possibly the only time I can remember anyone making a positive case for it's existence.

On balance - I think I accept that criminal justice is riddled with imperfection but at heart I think "innocent until proven guilty" is the way to go, and that muddying the waters doesn't really help anyone. Ultimately this is probably a good, and long overdue, move.

The Staircase lawyer David Rudolf backs not proven verdict - BBC News

Rudolf actually reasons that if you were going to drop one verdict it would be not guilty.

[grunt]

[147lothian]