SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Kato]

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Did McDiarmid not stand for election for both the Nationalist party and the communist party. He got kicked out of nationalist party for being a commie and kicked out of communist party for being a nationalist.
He sounds like someone who has supported every political stance at some point or other.

None of which is relevant to the SNP today.

Like quite a few writers from that era they followed political fashions/passions. No doubt he was an anti-English bigot though, a strand that stands out for me. A true commie wouldn't push that line at the time. He wasn't alone with that melting pot of views within the early SNP.

But let's face it though he saw himself as an intellectual, semi-permanently blootered out of his gourd on whisky most of the time (an almost de riguor sign of patriotism in Scotland back then), with a bigoted streak - an unhealthy combo.

The SNP should really have rebranded in the 80s but none of them had the smarts.

Some of his poyums are good from what I remember...


"Never call me British,
For it is far too near Brutish
and that is the difference between U and I."

Nah, maybe it's doggerel.

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[Kato]

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I think he was a complex guy. But the SNP does make it relevant with the white rose stuff.

You think fascism is relevant within the SNP today?

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[147lothian]

I think he was a complex guy. But the SNP does make it relevant with the white rose stuff.[/QUOTE]

According to George Galloway the SNP wanted a Nazi invasion.

[McSwanky]

Somebody just quoted George Galloway. Close the thread.

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[archie]

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You think fascism is relevant within the SNP today?

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No. But I think the White Rose and Arthur Donaldson stuff should be quietly binned.

[Kato]

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No. But I think the White Rose and Arthur Donaldson stuff should be quietly binned.

Well said.

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[Kato]

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I think he was a complex guy. But the SNP does make it relevant with the white rose stuff.

According to George Galloway the SNP wanted a Nazi invasion.

[/QUOTE]The "SNP" at the time were some pish breeked dudes in bothys getting angrily zonked and angrily writing letters. Lucky if they had 200 people who supported the guff they came out with.

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[Ozyhibby]

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Somebody just quoted George Galloway. Close the thread.

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[Mr Grieves]

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The Tories, whilst asking for full transparency of others, have refused to publish their numbers.

Any Labour peeps know what the Scottish numbers are?

The greens have 7646

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/s...5gOSNOyaA&s=19

"Scottish Labour, Scot Tories, and the Scottish Lib Dems can't crow about transparency if they are fundamentally unwilling to share their own membership figures

Do as I say, not what I do doesn't fly when you attack the opposition for failing to do something you yourself won't do"

"Doesn't matter if they're published in accounts, what matters is up-to-date figures as that is what they demand of the SNP."

"Pointless decision to not provide figures too, undermines the best attack line they have on the SNP at the moment which is that the current crisis is one of a failure of transparency

Doesn't hit as hard if you just ignore questions from journalists about your membership figures"

[ronaldo7]

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https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/s...5gOSNOyaA&s=19

"Scottish Labour, Scot Tories, and the Scottish Lib Dems can't crow about transparency if they are fundamentally unwilling to share their own membership figures

Do as I say, not what I do doesn't fly when you attack the opposition for failing to do something you yourself won't do"

"Doesn't matter if they're published in accounts, what matters is up-to-date figures as that is what they demand of the SNP."

"Pointless decision to not provide figures too, undermines the best attack line they have on the SNP at the moment which is that the current crisis is one of a failure of transparency

Doesn't hit as hard if you just ignore questions from journalists about your membership figures"

I edited my response to MA who'd given an assumed number for the Red branch office.

The numbers I was quoted was Tories 3,000, Labour 7,000, and Lib dems in the hundreds.

The only way we'll get accurate figures is if the transparency asked of the SNP is reciprocated by the unionists.

[Smartie]

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According to George Galloway the SNP wanted a Nazi invasion.

The "SNP" at the time were some pish breeked dudes in bothys getting angrily zonked and angrily writing letters. Lucky if they had 200 people who supported the guff they came out with.

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It's possible to agree with George Galloway about "then" but consider that the party may possibly have changed over the following three quarters of a century or so to the point where they're worth voting for.

There seems to be a real obsession with history and the past when it comes to putting a pro union argument forward. Lately we've had everything from slavery to the "tartan tories" stuff from the seventies and now this. A positive case for the future within the union would be most welcome instead of bickering about nonsense that is largely irrelevant. It's starting to feel a bit like Putin and his inane ramblings about the past to try to justify actions that are going to make the future bleaker for all around him.

[Santa Cruz]

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I edited my response to MA who'd given an assumed number for the Red branch office.

The numbers I was quoted was Tories 3,000, Labour 7,000, and Lib dems in the hundreds.

The only way we'll get accurate figures is if the transparency asked of the SNP is reciprocated by the unionists.

The lack of transparency by the SNP led to the CEO resigning. I don't get the obsession with membership numbers, it doesn't equate to votes cast for any of the parties. I get this investigation is boring as...but seriously could that journalist not be concentrating on something more important right now that affects the entire country as opposed to a tiny % of party political members who have a higher degree of passion for politics than folk out there with nothing.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I think he was a complex guy. But the SNP does make it relevant with the white rose stuff.

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/archivists-garden/index-by-plant-name/white-rose-of-scotland-scots-rose-burnet-rose#:~:text=The%20Burnet%20Rose%20has%20become,li ttle%20white%20rose%20of%20Scotland.

Throughout Britain, Europe and Asia it is found on coastal sand dunes and limestone heath. Next to the thistle, Rosa spinosissima is probably our most emblematic native plant. It has been used as a Scottish emblem since Charles Edward Stuart or 'Bonnie Prince Charlie' (1720-1788) and may have been the source of the Jacobite white cockade.


The poem celebrates the white rose of Scotland, not fascism.

[He's here!]

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I edited my response to MA who'd given an assumed number for the Red branch office.

The numbers I was quoted was Tories 3,000, Labour 7,000, and Lib dems in the hundreds.

The only way we'll get accurate figures is if the transparency asked of the SNP is reciprocated by the unionists.

The only way to get accurate figures is surely by releasing accurate figures, not by pretending they're 30-40k higher than they are, accusing the media of lying about the numbers then eventually having to come clean only when pressed by your own MSPs.

The only reason anyone's remotely bothered about this is because of the fanfare the SNP create around party membership numbers (bit like the yams and their obsession with size). Otherwise I doubt it would attract much attention. Trying to gain mileage by pointing out how much bigger their numbers are than the other parties is comfort blanket stuff.

After what's happened I'm actually surprised the SNP are still trying to big the numbers thing up. Who's going to believe anything they say now?

[ronaldo7]

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The lack of transparency by the SNP led to the CEO resigning. I don't get the obsession with membership numbers, it doesn't equate to votes cast for any of the parties. I get this investigation is boring as...but seriously could that journalist not be concentrating on something more important right now that affects the entire country as opposed to a tiny % of party political members who have a higher degree of passion for politics than folk out there with nothing.

I agree.

The press rightfully investigated and ran to ground the situation of the SNP membership, but when other parties jumped on the bandwagon, they themselves should be squeaky clean on their branch numbers.

It's all a bit attendances at the fitba for me, so let's be having them, as the journalist is going to continue until he gets them, unless he's told otherwise.

I believe in 2021 when Sir Keir blagged his way to become leader of the Labour party, the numbers quoted leaving were 190,000

I'm sure it'll all die down in a couple of days unless the SNP numbers fall again.

[Ozyhibby]

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The only way to get accurate figures is surely by releasing accurate figures, not by pretending they're 30-40k higher than they are, accusing the media of lying about the numbers then eventually having to come clean only when pressed by your own MSPs.

The only reason anyone's remotely bothered about this is because of the fanfare the SNP create around party membership numbers (bit like the yams and their obsession with size). Otherwise I doubt it would attract much attention. Trying to gain mileage by pointing out how much bigger their numbers are than the other parties is comfort blanket stuff.

After what's happened I'm actually surprised the SNP are still trying to big the numbers thing up. Who's going to believe anything they say now?

When did they lie about membership numbers?


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[archie]

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https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/archivists-garden/index-by-plant-name/white-rose-of-scotland-scots-rose-burnet-rose#:~:text=The%20Burnet%20Rose%20has%20become,li ttle%20white%20rose%20of%20Scotland.

Throughout Britain, Europe and Asia it is found on coastal sand dunes and limestone heath. Next to the thistle, Rosa spinosissima is probably our most emblematic native plant. It has been used as a Scottish emblem since Charles Edward Stuart or 'Bonnie Prince Charlie' (1720-1788) and may have been the source of the Jacobite white cockade.


The poem celebrates the white rose of Scotland, not fascism.

I'm sure that's true. But the author also wrote 'A plea for a Scottish Fascism' and 'A programme for a Scottish Fascism'. He also speculated that it would be better if the Germans won WW2. Now I think he was all over the place and could overlook a young man blowing with the political wind. Others are less forgiving. I guess the question is how comfortable are you with his early writings?

[archie]

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When did they lie about membership numbers?


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It was in response to reports of dropping membership. The former Chief Exec gave Murray Foote the wrong numbers and he fed them to the press. It came out at the leadership election. Foote resigned as he had been put in a position where he lied.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I'm sure that's true. But the author also wrote 'A plea for a Scottish Fascism' and 'A programme for a Scottish Fascism'. He also speculated that it would be better if the Germans won WW2. Now I think he was all over the place and could overlook a young man blowing with the political wind. Others are less forgiving. I guess the question is how comfortable are you with his early writings?

To be honest, I couldn't care less about mcdiarmid or what he said or wrote.

The scotch rose was a symbol of Scotland long before he wrote a 4 line poem about it.

The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart.

There, I've quoted the poem, does that make me a fascist?

[Kato]

As an aside Gavin Bowd's "Fascist Scotland" is a good read.

One explanation he gives as to why fascism never really took hold here is that it had to carve out a new niche for bigotry in Scotland, in what was an already crowded market.

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[Ozyhibby]

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To be honest, I couldn't care less about mcdiarmid or what he said or wrote.

The scotch rose was a symbol of Scotland long before he wrote a 4 line poem about it.

The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart.

There, I've quoted the poem, does that make me a fascist?

Going around quoting poetry, your def for the watching.


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[He's here!]

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When did they lie about membership numbers?


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I'm pretty sure you must already know the answer but...

SNP media chief Murray Foote resigns over membership dispute - BBC News

Swiftly followed by Murrell's resignation.

[archie]

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To be honest, I couldn't care less about mcdiarmid or what he said or wrote.

The scotch rose was a symbol of Scotland long before he wrote a 4 line poem about it.

The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart.

There, I've quoted the poem, does that make me a fascist?

No. But if you look at Kato's posts you'll get a sense of the strength of feeling from someone who supports independence.

[Moulin Yarns]

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No. But if you look at Kato's posts you'll get a sense of the strength of feeling from someone who supports independence.

That's one person's view.

Do you at least accept that the wearing of the white rose of Scotland has absolutely nothing to do with Hugh mcdiarmid or fascism and was a long standing symbol of Scotland for centuries before he wrote a poem about it?

[archie]

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That's one person's view.

Do you at least accept that the wearing of the white rose of Scotland has absolutely nothing to do with Hugh mcdiarmid or fascism and was a long standing symbol of Scotland for centuries before he wrote a poem about it?

I think it is to do with MacDairmid https://www.thenational.scot/news/19...e-white-roses/

https://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-27/...-queens-speech

[Moulin Yarns]

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I think it is to do with MacDairmid https://www.thenational.scot/news/19...e-white-roses/

https://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-27/...-queens-speech

That's up to you, but I know that history is on my side.

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/archivists-garden/index-by-plant-name/white-rose-of-scotland-scots-rose-burnet-rose#:~:text=The%20Burnet%20Rose%20has%20become,li ttle%20white%20rose%20of%20Scotland.


Roses also have a long history as an emblem and are regularly seen in heraldry. For example the white rose is the plant badge of the Clan Keith which dates back to the time Malcolm II (died 1034) and the Battle of Barrie in 1010. David I (c.1080-1153) granted the family lands in Lothian in 1150. Later Robert the Bruce (1274-1329) granted the hereditary Marischal Earldom to Sir Robert Keith after the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.

https://www.fairfaxhouse.co.uk/articles/in-the-name-of-the-rose/#:~:text=As%20a%20symbol%20associated%20with,for%2 0the%20Jacobites%2C%20of%20legitimacy.

The White Rose is perhaps the most evocative and powerful of Jacobite symbols, a significance it retains even today. Wearing the White Rose or displaying it on personal possessions signified complete dedication to the Stuart cause, even unto death. For Catholic followers of Jacobitism the rose also possessed an intense religious importance as an emblem of the Virgin Mary. As a symbol associated with royalty the rose has a long history in both England and Scotland, where it is recorded as a Stuart royal symbol from the fifteenth century. White, meanwhile, is the colour of purity and, importantly for the Jacobites, of legitimacy.


It appears that only opponents of independence are seeing anything to do with fascism in the wearing of the white rose.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I think it is to do with MacDairmid https://www.thenational.scot/news/19...e-white-roses/

https://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-27/...-queens-speech

Carol Monaghan mp tagged Hugh MacDairmid in her tweet on wearing a white rose for the swearing in. I didn't know his past or if she did but very foolish

https://twitter.com/CMonaghanSNP/sta...-queens-speech

https://twitter.com/CMonaghanSNP/sta...-queens-speech

[Stairway 2 7]

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That's up to you, but I know that history is on my side.

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/archivists-garden/index-by-plant-name/white-rose-of-scotland-scots-rose-burnet-rose#:~:text=The%20Burnet%20Rose%20has%20become,li ttle%20white%20rose%20of%20Scotland.


Roses also have a long history as an emblem and are regularly seen in heraldry. For example the white rose is the plant badge of the Clan Keith which dates back to the time Malcolm II (died 1034) and the Battle of Barrie in 1010. David I (c.1080-1153) granted the family lands in Lothian in 1150. Later Robert the Bruce (1274-1329) granted the hereditary Marischal Earldom to Sir Robert Keith after the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.

https://www.fairfaxhouse.co.uk/articles/in-the-name-of-the-rose/#:~:text=As%20a%20symbol%20associated%20with,for%2 0the%20Jacobites%2C%20of%20legitimacy.

The White Rose is perhaps the most evocative and powerful of Jacobite symbols, a significance it retains even today. Wearing the White Rose or displaying it on personal possessions signified complete dedication to the Stuart cause, even unto death. For Catholic followers of Jacobitism the rose also possessed an intense religious importance as an emblem of the Virgin Mary. As a symbol associated with royalty the rose has a long history in both England and Scotland, where it is recorded as a Stuart royal symbol from the fifteenth century. White, meanwhile, is the colour of purity and, importantly for the Jacobites, of legitimacy.


It appears that only opponents of independence are seeing anything to do with fascism in the wearing of the white rose.

The national is hardly an opponent of independence, Carol Monaghan snp mp either.

[Stairway 2 7]

How could they buy a motor home without him the treasurer knowing about it. There is 80k for vehicle assets in the accounts he signed off.

BBCandrewkerr
·
The SNP’s former Treasurer Colin Beattie has told journalists that he “didn’t know” about the SNP’s motorhome. He was asked: “Did you know about the motorhome purchase and did you sign it off?” He replied: “No, I didn’t know about it.” Mr Beattie then walked away from the group

Video
https://mobile.twitter.com/ginadavid...27588959444992

[marinello59]

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How could they buy a motor home without him the treasurer knowing about it. There is 80k for vehicle assets in the accounts he signed off.

BBCandrewkerr
·
The SNP’s former Treasurer Colin Beattie has told journalists that he “didn’t know” about the SNP’s motorhome. He was asked: “Did you know about the motorhome purchase and did you sign it off?” He replied: “No, I didn’t know about it.” Mr Beattie then walked away from the group

Video
https://mobile.twitter.com/ginadavid...27588959444992

Maybe that £80k related to another vehicle or vehicles?