SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Mibbes Aye]

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I think there has been some members noisier than other in recent years pushing the party. That’s all very well but they are doing it as a form of short cut without taking the general public with them. There is only so far you can stretch that elastic band before it snaps back to the middle. I think we’ll see that over next couple of years. The party will be firmly back in the centre for the Scottish elections.

This happens in all parties imo.


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You say some members but nearly half your membership just voted for someone who is against gay marriage and single mothers.

I think Sturgeon’s departure has lifted the veil on your membership and it is a lot less progressive than your party has admitted to.

[Santa Cruz]

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You say some members but nearly half your membership just voted for someone who is against gay marriage and single mothers.

I think Sturgeon’s departure has lifted the veil on your membership and it is a lot less progressive than your party has admitted to.

I don't think it was half the SNP membership, was there not about 20,000 who didn't vote at all?

[Mibbes Aye]

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The Tories, whilst asking for full transparency of others, have refused to publish their numbers.

Any Labour peeps know what the Scottish numbers are?

The greens have 7646

I guess that will be me then

There’s a figure of 16,000 or thereabouts that I have seen. But I don’t think that includes affiliate members. If you are in a Labour-affiliated union you can choose to have your subs go to the union or to Labour. If your union subs go to the party you get a vote in internal party elections - leadership, NEC etc - and some other elements.

All the big unions are affiliated. What I am uncertain about is whether the sub to Labour is opt-in or opt-out. I think it used to be opt-out across the board but some may have changed. I think Unison switched to opt-in a few years back.

[degenerated]

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I wonder if the Scottish Lib Dem’s even have as many members as the SNP has added in last couple of weeks?


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I'd be surprised if the conservatives even have that number.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I don't think it was half the SNP membership, was there not about 20,000 who didn't vote at all?

Fair point, I wonder if they just wanted Salmond back

[Stairway 2 7]

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I'd be surprised if the conservatives even have that number.

You'd hope not. Although unfortunately members doesn't equate votes, so a descent proportion of mentalists vote for them up here

[ronaldo7]

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I guess that will be me then

There’s a figure of 16,000 or thereabouts that I have seen. But I don’t think that includes affiliate members. If you are in a Labour-affiliated union you can choose to have your subs go to the union or to Labour. If your union subs go to the party you get a vote in internal party elections - leadership, NEC etc - and some other elements.

All the big unions are affiliated. What I am uncertain about is whether the sub to Labour is opt-in or opt-out. I think it used to be opt-out across the board but some may have changed. I think Unison switched to opt-in a few years back.

I saw that figure a while back when Corbyn had folk swarming to the party in England, not so much here.

It'd be nice if the branch office could update the press. 😆

Cheers anyway. 👍

Edit

Heard some numbers last night.
Red branch office 7000
Blue branch office 3000
Orange branch office in the hundreds.

[Ozyhibby]

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You say some members but nearly half your membership just voted for someone who is against gay marriage and single mothers.

I think Sturgeon’s departure has lifted the veil on your membership and it is a lot less progressive than your party has admitted to.

I don’t think she ever said she was against single mothers? I’m pretty sure she said it was a choice she had not made. Clumsy wording but I don’t think anyone seriously thinks she wants to outlaw it? And the same with gay marriage. She was very clear she would 100% protect gay marriage as a right.
It’s fun for opponents to characterise her that way but most people can see through it.
It’s like calling Starmer a Tory. Everyone knows he’s not but because he copies them a lot it gives an easy target.
It’s all knockabout stuff though so go for it.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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I don’t think she ever said she was against single mothers? I’m pretty sure she said it was a choice she had not made. Clumsy wording but I don’t think anyone seriously thinks she wants to outlaw it? And the same with gay marriage. She was very clear she would 100% protect gay marriage as a right.
It’s fun for opponents to characterise her that way but most people can see through it.
It’s like calling Starmer a Tory. Everyone knows he’s not but because he copies them a lot it gives an easy target.
It’s all knockabout stuff though so go for it.


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Yeah, I was careful with my wording. I believe she called having a child out of wedlock ‘wrong’ and said she would have voted against equal marriage. I think there was an element of having her cake and eating it by saying she would nevertheless uphold the law etc. You can’t really pitch for office by doing otherwise! But like you say, all in good spirit.

I think the key point I was making was about the membership though. I think the SNP likes to portray itself as young, vibrant and progressive. The reality is that the membership is heavily skewed to ABC1s, is 71% over-50s and nearly half of them are over-65s. The evidence base for a trend towards ageing and less socially liberal does exist but obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, and nor should age be treated as deterministic.

For whatever reason, half the party electorate did go with the small government, low tax candidate with personal views deemed by many to be socially illiberal. I think that is interesting in what it might say about the membership, far more than what it says about Kate Forbes.

[grunt]

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Yeah, I was careful with my wording. I believe she called having a child out of wedlock ‘wrong’ and said she would have voted against equal marriage. I think there was an element of having her cake and eating it by saying she would nevertheless uphold the law etc. You can’t really pitch for office by doing otherwise! But like you say, all in good spirit.

I'd be interested to hear what else you think she could have said in the circumstances.

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For whatever reason, half the party electorate did go with the small government, low tax candidate with personal views deemed by many to be socially illiberal. I think that is interesting in what it might say about the membership, far more than what it says about Kate Forbes.

Possibly that some members can differentiate between the personal and the professional when looking at a candidate?

[Ozyhibby]

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Yeah, I was careful with my wording. I believe she called having a child out of wedlock ‘wrong’ and said she would have voted against equal marriage. I think there was an element of having her cake and eating it by saying she would nevertheless uphold the law etc. You can’t really pitch for office by doing otherwise! But like you say, all in good spirit.

I think the key point I was making was about the membership though. I think the SNP likes to portray itself as young, vibrant and progressive. The reality is that the membership is heavily skewed to ABC1s, is 71% over-50s and nearly half of them are over-65s. The evidence base for a trend towards ageing and less socially liberal does exist but obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, and nor should age be treated as deterministic.

For whatever reason, half the party electorate did go with the small government, low tax candidate with personal views deemed by many to be socially illiberal. I think that is interesting in what it might say about the membership, far more than what it says about Kate Forbes.

Is she for small government?


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Yeah, I was careful with my wording. I believe she called having a child out of wedlock ‘wrong’ and said she would have voted against equal marriage. I think there was an element of having her cake and eating it by saying she would nevertheless uphold the law etc. You can’t really pitch for office by doing otherwise! But like you say, all in good spirit.

I think the key point I was making was about the membership though. I think the SNP likes to portray itself as young, vibrant and progressive. The reality is that the membership is heavily skewed to ABC1s, is 71% over-50s and nearly half of them are over-65s. The evidence base for a trend towards ageing and less socially liberal does exist but obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, and nor should age be treated as deterministic.

For whatever reason, half the party electorate did go with the small government, low tax candidate with personal views deemed by many to be socially illiberal. I think that is interesting in what it might say about the membership, far more than what it says about Kate Forbes.

I find a lot of what you say about the SNP is taking nuggets changing and growing them then running with it. What is the make up of other parties or unions, you think it's minorities and the young. It's a fact younger people are more likely to vote snp and independence. I also believe most people that voted Forbes respect that Forbes repeatedly said she chooses to live her life one way, but doesn't force or tell people how to live their life on social choices.


The stuff about low tax small government is just made up, her ideas with common weal will show that but you'll not care I presume?

[Mibbes Aye]

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I'd be interested to hear what else you think she could have said in the circumstances.

I made it clear in the following sentence

[ronaldo7]

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Is she for small government?


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Is she low tax?

[grunt]

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I made it clear in the following sentence

You contradicted yourself in the following sentence.

[Mibbes Aye]

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You contradicted yourself in the following sentence.

I said she had her cake and ate it. She knew that her principles didn’t stand up to scrutiny so she said she would bide by the law, as if somehow she had a choice.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Is she for small government?


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Is she low tax?

I judge her on her words and actions and I would say yes, she is.

Her national economic strategy read like an application for the IMF. No mention of the public sector to any real extent but she does talk about making Scotland a “magnet for global private capital”.

When she laid out her multi-year spending review before she went off, it was huge spending cuts in the public sector, reduction of services, reduction of public sector staff, selling off public buildings and cutting or merging the non-departmental agencies of government. Nothing about tax rises, in fact the IFS modelled her numbers and said they didn’t budget for any increase in higher rate for at least four years. Even the Fraser of Allander Institute called it ‘stark’.

And let’s not forget her work on the Scottish Growth Commission. Proposing an effective cap on public debt of 50% of GDP, which would make it one of the lowest in the OECD. But reducing public borrowing not by increasing tax, especially tax on the wealthier, but by reducing public spending.

That’s all Tory playbook stuff. And that’s what a lot of your brethren voted for. In fairness maybe they didn’t know.

[grunt]

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I said she had her cake and ate it. She knew that her principles didn’t stand up to scrutiny so she said she would bide by the law, as if somehow she had a choice.

You can be pretty disgusting when you want to be, can't you?

[Mibbes Aye]

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You can be pretty disgusting when you want to be, can't you?

What are you on about? What is 'disgusting' about saying she knew her principles wouldn't stand up to scrutiny?

[WhileTheChief..]

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I judge her on her words and actions and I would say yes, she is.

Her national economic strategy read like an application for the IMF. No mention of the public sector to any real extent but she does talk about making Scotland a “magnet for global private capital”.

When she laid out her multi-year spending review before she went off, it was huge spending cuts in the public sector, reduction of services, reduction of public sector staff, selling off public buildings and cutting or merging the non-departmental agencies of government. Nothing about tax rises, in fact the IFS modelled her numbers and said they didn’t budget for any increase in higher rate for at least four years. Even the Fraser of Allander Institute called it ‘stark’.

And let’s not forget her work on the Scottish Growth Commission. Proposing an effective cap on public debt of 50% of GDP, which would make it one of the lowest in the OECD. But reducing public borrowing not by increasing tax, especially tax on the wealthier, but by reducing public spending.

That’s all Tory playbook stuff. And that’s what a lot of your brethren voted for. In fairness maybe they didn’t know.

I really, really hope she replaces Yousaf and starts to press ahead with all of the above. Fantastic.

[147lothian]

Why do the SNP wear white roses at Parliament? Is it gesture-politicking or does it have a deep and significant meaning?

[Moulin Yarns]

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Why do the SNP wear white roses at Parliament? Is it gesture-politicking or does it have a deep and significant meaning?

Possibly Rosa alba, the wild scottish rose

The white rose became a symbol of the Jacobite cause

[archie]

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Why do the SNP wear white roses at Parliament? Is it gesture-politicking or does it have a deep and significant meaning?

From Hugh MacDairmid poem the Little White Rose.

[147lothian]

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From Hugh MacDairmid poem the Little White Rose.

Surely not, Hugh McDarairid may have been been a co-founder of the National Party in Scotland in 1928 the predecessor of the SNP, but he was also a fascist who felt that a Nazi invasion of England was in Scotland's best interest.

I think quite a few founder members of the SNP in the 30's were fascist sympathizers but surely the modern SNP are not going to draw attention to this.

[Berwickhibby]

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Surely not, Hugh McDarairid may have been been a co-founder of the National Party in Scotland in 1928 the predecessor of the SNP, but he was also a fascist who felt that a Nazi invasion of England was in Scotland's best interest.

I think quite a few founder members of the SNP in the 30's were fascist sympathizers but surely the modern SNP are not going to draw attention to this.

Stand by with your tin hat on…. Incoming defence and denial of the founders will be along shortly

[Kato]

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Stand by with your tin hat on…. Incoming defence and denial of the founders will be along shortly

You sure?

There have been a few mentions of those leanings on here.

Christopher Grieve had some talent but he was also a fascist prick.

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[Ozyhibby]

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Stand by with your tin hat on…. Incoming defence and denial of the founders will be along shortly

About as boring as who’s fault slavery was but crack on if it floats your boat. I prefer looking forward.


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[Kato]

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About as boring as who’s fault slavery was but crack on if it floats your boat. I prefer looking forward.


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I look forward to seeing a socialisty Labour Party.

Like what they had when I was nipper.

They built houses n'****, could run a railway and a power grid. Stuff that was highly practical for everyone.

What with them becoming totally different to their roots it's highly unlikely.

Liberals aren't exactly the bastion of powerful thinking they were in the past.

Republicans and Democrats in America literally exchanged places on the political spectrum at one point.

The SNP mirrored Irish and other European nationalist movements. Pre-holocaust Fascism had an allure and calling to arms for those with resentments and axes to grind. From my pov they were still rammed with weirdos up to the late 1970's when a few alternative, more practical voices started to be heard 21st century SNP is barely recognisable to the Ku Klux Kailyard types from the 30's. If you get a chance dip into MacDiarmids early political letters. A fevered crank.

Not many political parties have gone unchanged. Look at the Tories, at one point they thought it was their god given right to exploit the whole globe for the own personal gain - now its just a few islands off the west of Europe and the tiny ones here and there upon which they stash their loot and mess up the locals. I suppose it is global given they allow any old war crim, drug lord or Putin peeps to bank with them. Second British Empire that set-up. ******* cockroaches.

I'm not describing the voters of those parties btw, only the make-up of the front of house people. Before anyone goes bananas.

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[degenerated]

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I look forward to seeing a socialisty Labour Party.

Like what they had when I was nipper.

They built houses n'****, could run a railway and a power grid. Stuff that was highly practical for everyone.

What with them becoming totally different to their roots it's highly unlikely.

Liberals aren't exactly the bastion of powerful thinking they were in the past.

Republicans and Democrats in America literally exchanged places on the political spectrum at one point.

The SNP mirrored Irish and other European nationalist movements. Pre-holocaust Fascism had an allure and calling to arms for those with resentments and axes to grind. From my pov they were still rammed with weirdos up to the late 1970's when a few alternative, more practical voices started to be heard 21st century SNP is barely recognisable to the Ku Klux Kailyard types from the 30's. If you get a chance dip into MacDiarmids early political letters. A fevered crank.

Not many political parties have gone unchanged. Look at the Tories, at one point they thought it was their god given right to exploit the whole globe for the own personal gain - now its just a few islands off the west of Europe and the tiny ones here and there upon which they stash their loot and mess up the locals. I suppose it is global given they allow any old war crim, drug lord or Putin peeps to bank with them. Second British Empire that set-up. ******* cockroaches.

I'm not describing the voters of those parties btw, only the make-up of the front of house people. Before anyone goes bananas.

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Did McDiarmid not stand for election for both the Nationalist party and the communist party. He got kicked out of nationalist party for being a commie and kicked out of communist party for being a nationalist.
He sounds like someone who has supported every political stance at some point or other.

None of which is relevant to the SNP today.

[archie]

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Did McDiarmid not stand for election for both the Nationalist party and the communist party. He got kicked out of nationalist party for being a commie and kicked out of communist party for being a nationalist.
He sounds like someone who has supported every political stance at some point or other.

None of which is relevant to the SNP today.

I think he was a complex guy. But the SNP does make it relevant with the white rose stuff.