SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Skol]

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Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

Do you believe in fairies as well ?

[He's here!]

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What info was "withheld" and what evidence do you have to support that charge?

You think Murrell released the (previously lied about) party membership figures willingly?

[Keith_M]

So this is basically the 'ring fenced' issue we discussed quite a while back?

If you say you've 'ring fenced' money, then you can't just spend it and then say you're going to put it back afterwards, which appears to be what they planned to do. In no way can that possibly be described as money that is 'ring fenced'.

I'm actually a bit confused, though, as to what illegality has actually occurred, and also look forward to hearing who it was that raised the issue to the PF's office and what the actual complaint was.

However, I do think the resignation of Murrell is the correct outcome.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

Members of the NEC said the same, multiple people and emails show the NEC were shut down when asking about the finances. The treasurer resigned as he wasn't allowed the information on finances he needed. Just about everyone is saying they didn't know that member numbers had plummeted, the same for auditors quiting. A bizarre secrecy. Who knew all these facts Just Murrell, that doesn't seem likely

[Stairway 2 7]

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So this is basically the 'ring fenced' issue we discussed quite a while back?

If you say you've 'ring fenced' money, then you can't just spend it and then say you're going to put it back afterwards, which appears to be what they planned to do. In no way can that possibly be described as money that is 'ring fenced'.

I'm actually a bit confused, though, as to what illegality has actually occurred, and also look forward to hearing who it was that raised the issue to the PF's office and what the actual complaint was.

However, I do think the resignation of Murrell is the correct outcome.

I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.

[Stairway 2 7]

On the subject

https://archive.ph/Y5zvv

SNP running out of cash after member exodus, warns treasurer

The SNP is running out of cash following an exodus of 30,000 members and the unexpected legal costs linked to the continuing police investigation into the party’s funding, its ruling council has been told.
Colin Beattie, the SNP treasurer, told the national executive committee (NEC) that the party was “having difficulty in balancing the books due to the reduction in membership and donors” and that fighting a potential by-election in Rutherglen & Hamilton West would “put the party under pressure”.

[marinello59]

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Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

So he is just wasn’t listening?

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the party running out of money. They could raise £500k this week if they had to. In fact, that’s what got them in this bother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

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I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.

That's a possibility, yeah.

[greenlex]

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I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.

The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.

[Stairway 2 7]

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The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.

But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.

[grunt]

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If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.

You should have mentioned this earlier! If we're to judge the guilt or otherwise of the SNP based on how you personally would react, you should make your feelings known sooner, it would save a lot of time. Forget the debate about whether they've actually done anything wrong, clearly if what they've done has upset you then they're guilty as charged. (Whatever they're charged with).

[grunt]

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The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.

Funny you should say that, as this is what it says in the SNP accounts.

[greenlex]

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But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.

Me too almost exactly. I’m playing devils advocate. I say almost exactly as IMO challenging the Westminster intervention is an independence win/win. Win the challenge it cements and underscores devolution on the independence journey. Lose it and it only shows why independence is the only way to govern ourselves showing devolution up as the crock o **** it is. A democratically elected multi party vote being shut down by a one party government we didn’t vote for and haven’t for many many years.

[Stairway 2 7]

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You should have mentioned this earlier! If we're to judge the guilt or otherwise of the SNP based on how you personally would react, you should make your feelings known sooner, it would save a lot of time. Forget the debate about whether they've actually done anything wrong, clearly if what they've done has upset you then they're guilty as charged. (Whatever they're charged with).

Snidey comment. Of course my opinion doesn't matter but its a message board of opinions, don't be shocked when you read an opinion. There was multiple posts with accusations previous to this one but you just replied like comical Ali, all is fine nothing to see here

[degenerated]

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But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.

I'd be very surprised if the Scottish government paid for legal advice on bills passed in parliament with monies from the SNP bank account.

[Skol]

Was it not the case though that the fund raising material said the money would be ring fenced for use in an Indy 2 campaign. That has not yet taken place.

I cannot believe people are still trying to say that this was all fine and don’t worry, we will spend the. Ones when we raise it again.

Criminal? I doubt it

However it’s misleading at best.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Me too almost exactly. I’m playing devils advocate. I say almost exactly as IMO challenging the Westminster intervention is an independence win/win. Win the challenge it cements and underscores devolution on the independence journey. Lose it and it only shows why independence is the only way to govern ourselves showing devolution up as the crock o **** it is. A democratically elected multi party vote being shut down by a one party government we didn’t vote for and haven’t for many many years.

But that is ignoring the fact that the vast majority don't want them to go to court including a majority of independence voters. People can argue they think GRR is morally right if they want but no way can they say its advancing independence. Work on the bottle return scheme or GRR were just examples. I'm not sure if it is fraud or not buy surely every penny should have been directly spent on independence campaigning and with clear evidence

[greenlex]

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Was it not the case though that the fund raising material said the money would be ring fenced for use in an Indy 2 campaign. That has not yet taken place.

I cannot believe people are still trying to say that this was all fine and don’t worry, we will spend the. Ones when we raise it again.

Criminal? I doubt it

However it’s misleading at best.

Earmarked rather than ringfenced I think. A subtle difference however semantic.

[Skol]

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Earmarked rather than ringfenced I think. A subtle difference however semantic.

I believe The accounts said earmarked the fund raising material said ring fenced.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I'd be very surprised if the Scottish government paid for legal advice on bills passed in parliament with monies from the SNP bank account.

It was a crude example, but wages would have been spent on it. The point is SNP are more than independence they focus on many issues from climate, economy, culture ect ect.

This should have been ring fenced, perhaps it will show it was

[RyeSloan]

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I believe The accounts said earmarked the fund raising material said ring fenced.

https://deanmthomson.substack.com/p/wheres-the-money

[Stairway 2 7]

Sunday mail with more. If its footage I'm not sure how Sturgeon can back away from saying accounts never been stronger

https://mobile.twitter.com/johncferg...67842268839937


John Ferguson
@johncferguson
💥Police passed emails claiming Sturgeon blocked finance scrutiny
💥Footage of former FM angrily telling NEC accounts ‘never been stronger’ and not to talk about them - weeks before fraud probe launched
💥Jewellery purchases being investigated
💥Portuguese villa revealed

[grunt]

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Jewellery purchases being investigated
Portuguese villa revealed

What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?

The press in this country are out of control.

[Stairway 2 7]

Jackie Bailey says Humza must suspend NS after it's emerged she shut scrutiny of SNP finances. Big call for Humza he's been fawning for 3 months over the Murrells but was less so last week saying it would have been helpful if NS had told him about accountants quiting

[Stairway 2 7]

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What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?

The press in this country are out of control.

Any comment on the first two bullet points the ones that are obviously huge news or just the second two

[Skol]

What is clear is that money was raised for one purpose and used for another.

Some people want to believe the change in language being used to explain it away.

It would be easier just to accept what happened was wrong.

I do see some people have come round to this way of thinking but others still follow the party line

[Stairway 2 7]

Just watched the video Sturgeon says the finances have never been stronger due to membership numbers. Also says members have to be careful when suggesting there are problems. She was either lying to the NEC or the party was lying to her. She also won't be happy that someone in the NEC has screenshotted a private meeting and chucked her under the bus by giving it to the press

[Jack]

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It was a crude example, but wages would have been spent on it. The point is SNP are more than independence they focus on many issues from climate, economy, culture ect ect.

This should have been ring fenced, perhaps it will show it was

Sounds like you're confusing the SNP with the Scottish Government.

Having worked for many years in the Scottish Government I can see no reason why the SNP would need to spend money on anything like that.

Political parties come up with policies formed on what their manifesto said. Basically ideas and they don't cost much. It then becomes government business and the government pays to get it done.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Sounds like you're confusing the SNP with the Scottish Government.

Having worked for many years in the Scottish Government I can see no reason why the SNP would need to spend money on anything like that.

Political parties come up with policies formed on what their manifesto said. Basically ideas and they don't cost much. It then becomes government business and the government pays to get it done.

Every hour a SNP staff member works on any of those issues money is spent through wages. I'm guessing wages is the biggest outgoing. Look at the SNPs social media this year how much of it is actually about independence. That's their perogative of course