(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

[Stairway 2 7]

Fox reporters knew privately the stolen election claims were nonsense

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-b2284710.html

[cabbageandribs1875]

Jimmy Carter is now Receiving Hospice care at Home, 98 is really quite an incredible age and not many couples will reach a 75th wedding anniversary

Former US President Jimmy Carter to receive hospice care - BBC News





apologies i maybe shouldn't have included this on a thread regarding that vile creature Trump

[grunt]

How many people have crossed the border ????

[Glory Lurker]

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How many people have crossed the border ????

An awfy lot of them must have gone back straight away. Mexico must be absolutely heaving!

What a horrible, horrible lady.

[J-C]

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An awfy lot of them must have gone back straight away. Mexico must be absolutely heaving!

What a horrible, horrible lady.

Not very good with her Math eh? there's only 8 billion people in the world, 3 quarters have crossed into USA hahaha

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000602507614

Second half of yesterday’s Newsagents podcast is about the massive lawsuit Fox News is facing and looks like losing $1.6bn over is fascinating.


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[One Day Soon]

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https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000602507614

Second half of yesterday’s Newsagents podcast is about the massive lawsuit Fox News is facing and looks like losing $1.6bn over is fascinating.


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Excellent. This is the electronic voting company I think?

[Ozyhibby]

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Excellent. This is the electronic voting company I think?

Yes, they make the counting machines.


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[Kato]

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Yes, they make the counting machines.


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Some commentators claiming Murdoch is guilty of sedition, given he knew the facts yet allowed his newsreaders to broadcast the opposite of those facts. The newsreaders knew the facts also, yet were happy to lie.

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[archie]

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Some commentators claiming Murdoch is guilty of sedition, given he knew the facts yet allowed his newsreaders to broadcast the opposite of those facts. The newsreaders knew the facts also, yet were happy to lie.

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It really looks like Murdoch's evidence has sunk Fox's defence. Some of Sydney Powell's 'info' came from a source that claimed they could time travel. Lots of twists and turns to come, but this is serious.

[Kato]

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It really looks like Murdoch's evidence has sunk Fox's defence. Some of Sydney Powell's 'info' came from a source that claimed they could time travel. Lots of twists and turns to come, but this is serious.

Trial in April.

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[Ozyhibby]

Getting arrested Tuesday apparently.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

he's at it again, this nasty **** is going to get innocent Americans killed Trump’s chilling warning of what will happen after his indictment (msn.com) he's deliberately inciting the morons, a PoS this world will be a better place without

[Sergio sledge]

Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

[Smartie]

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Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

Re the end of your first paragraph - it can never be in the greater good to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing and criminality because of the fear of repercussions. It only emboldens the wrongdoers.

America is a tinderbox right now but I don’t think fear should stop the right thing from happening. If he deserves to be arrested then he should be, the consequences of that dealt with even if scary, crazy stuff blows up.

The greater good is served by Trump being treated appropriately, arrested and charged if necessary.

[neil7908]

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Today is meant to be the day he's arrested. Is it just me watching on with morbid curiosity to see what happens? I worry there will be some big problems and potentially loss of life given the rhetoric coming from him and his supporters. I'd have been inclined to let Trump away with whatever they think he has done and try to get him to fade away into the background, the pursuit of him only seems to be fueling the fire in his supporters and making things worse IMHO. There comes a point where decisions have to be made for the greater good and, whilst he may be a criminal and an all around bad guy, is this pursuit of charges against him in the interest of the greater good?

I'm really struggling to see how the USA resolves this whole situation, there's such a divide between the two political parties and it seems to be getting pushed wider and everyone is becoming so entrenched. All the political leaders in that country need to take a step back and look at what effect their words and actions are having and start working towards reconciliation rather than further antagonisation which already has led to, and could ultimately lead to more, pretty nasty stuff happening. There's even talk from politicians about separating red and blue states, which would have been unheard of 10 years ago.

Sadly twitter and "new media" whilst they can be a force for good, has been a massive part of the antagonisation and entrenchment of both sides, it definitely seems like where people would have worked together in the past and come to compromises to allow both sides of the political spectrum to live and work together they won't even compromise one bit on either side now. The views of more moderate people on both sides has been completely drowned out by the very vocal extremists who in the past wouldn't have had a platform for their extremism to allow it to filter out to other people.

Unfortunately we can see that sort of thing creeping into UK politics and it's not nice to see.

I get your point to a certain extent but the one thing he's not doing is fading into the background - he's running for President again, and stands a decent chance of winning.

I'm not saying prosecute him to stop that. But he isn't going away, which leaves a choice to be made. And if he's committed crimes, he should be on trial like anyone else.

[Stairway 2 7]

Justice isn't a movable object or to be used to help in elections ect. You can’t back down to nutters over the threat of violence from a few.

[Sergio sledge]

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Re the end of your first paragraph - it can never be in the greater good to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing and criminality because of the fear of repercussions. It only emboldens the wrongdoers.

America is a tinderbox right now but I don’t think fear should stop the right thing from happening. If he deserves to be arrested then he should be, the consequences of that dealt with, even if scary, crazy stuff blows up.

The greater good is served by Trump being treated appropriately, arrested and charged if necessary.

I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

[archie]

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I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

I think it's really tricky. Personally I think he is as guilty as hell and everybody knows it. And justice should be applied equally. But he will weaponise it. I think it was Politico that made the point that it would energise 99% of his base. The problem for him is the 1% of the electorate it turns off.

[neil7908]

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I understand that, but I wonder if we have to treat something like this almost like a war time situation because I'm fearful that the USA is lurching towards civil war if they are not careful.

It's not about turning a blind eye to things, and I'm certainly not saying this as any defense of Trump, he's a horrible man who should never have gotten to the position of president in the first place, but if acknowledging that further pursuit of him is stoking the fire and driving the counrty closer to issues would lead to a back off on both sides and a calming of the rhetoric then I think that would be worth it.

You only have to look at (clearly not the same scale, seriousness or impact) the likes of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa for an example of a country drawing a line in the sand, accepting the wrongs of the past but realising that the pursuit of prosecutions (in some cases) is not necessarily the best way to move on with life to try and bring the country together. (n.b. Admittedly there is some debate as to the success of this commission.)

The other agreement I that comes to mind is the Good Friday Peace Agreement where prisoner release was a big part of it. Drawing a line in the sand and trying to move forward.

The big question, as neil7908 mentions, would be whether he would fade into the background, which he is clearly not doing just now.

I think there was a time post January 6th where more moderate Republicans had come out in public against Trump and his support was probably at it's lowest ebb where he may have faded away if they could have maintained that momentum he would have been pretty irrelevant to the next election. Unfortunately I think the pursuit of Trump, however just it may be, has only led to a rise in support for him, even from moderates who think that he's being persecuted unfairly.

I think he was always going to run again though. I don't for a second buy the notion that he would ever have to disappeared. And unfortunately there is enough public support behind him from the Republican base that the moderates in the party won't turn against him now. They have seen what happens to those who speak out.

Unfortunately there are no easy options here. If you look at Bolsonaro, he has left Brazil and allowed things to move on. Trump has done the opposite and left no room for any other choice. If he has indeed committed crimes, America has a judicial process that all citizens are part of and subject to.

If he has indeed been committing multiple crimes and gets away with it, it's near impossible to prosecute if he becomes President again.

And why would anyone thinking he'd just go on the straight and narrow at this point - he would certainly behave even worse knowing he's got away with it before and will stop at nothing to keep power.

Letting him back into office by ignoring his crimes sounds like a genuinely insane option. I don't want to go all Godwins Law here but we'd be talking about appeasing a fascist dictator. Look how well that worked in the 1930s.

[cabbageandribs1875]

one day maybe....yeah right

[grunt]

Developments overnight in the case of Trump and the classified documents he took when he left the WH.

[Smartie]

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Developments overnight in the case of Trump and the classified documents he took when he left the WH.

Do you have any sources for this?

It’s quite hard to wade through all the Donald Trump stuff that’s out there right now.

[grunt]

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Do you have any sources for this?

Best I can find just now https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/...885373958?s=20

[archie]

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Best I can find just now https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/...885373958?s=20

Maybe this?

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...probe-00088215

[Smartie]

Very interesting.

Thanks folks.

[cabbageandribs1875]

the GOP is rife with repugnant individuals nowayears....just like a certain political party in the UK



Greene's DC jail visit pulls GOP closer to Jan. 6 rioters (msn.com)

[Smartie]

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the GOP is rife with repugnant individuals nowayears....just like a certain political party in the UK



Greene's DC jail visit pulls GOP closer to Jan. 6 rioters (msn.com)

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/sh...le-in-ukraine/

I've got no idea about the accuracy or impartiality of the source, but on the subject of the GOP I have to say that this surprised me a bit.

Although maybe it shouldn't? Should we expect the ultra-nationalist element of the USA to be more about flexing it's muscles on the international stage or withdrawing into itself?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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https://www.mediaite.com/politics/sh...le-in-ukraine/

I've got no idea about the accuracy or impartiality of the source, but on the subject of the GOP I have to say that this surprised me a bit.

Although maybe it shouldn't? Should we expect the ultra-nationalist element of the USA to be more about flexing it's muscles on the international stage or withdrawing into itself?

and Trump is at it yet again Trump warns of 'death and destruction' if he is indicted on Stormy Daniels charges (msn.com)

"death and destruction" if he is indicted


i'll say it again, more innocent American citizens will die because of him

[Callum_62]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...mpaign=wp_main

Lock him up....

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