SNP are lying b******s as well !

[J-C]

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It's not the people of England.

Well the people of Scotland don't hold the power in Westminster, the huge majority of MP's are English, infact 533 out of 650.

[archie]

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It means you replied to half my statement and left out the bit that was difficult for you.

But then you know that. You're just a troll. Bye.

What on earth are you talking about?

[archie]

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Well the people of Scotland don't hold the power in Westminster, the huge majority of MP's are English, infact 533 out of 650.

It's the UK Parliament.

[J-C]

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It's the UK Parliament.

Doh! Really, it's a wee tad biased don't you think, where's the balance in voting.

[archie]

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Doh! Really, it's a wee tad biased don't you think, where's the balance in voting.

No. It's a simple fact. Again you are implying that MPs from English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. At best that makes no sense and at worst it's a pretty ugly sentiment.

[Jack]

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No. It's a simple fact. Again you are implying that MPs from English constituencies vote as a homogeneous block. At best that makes no sense and at worst it's a pretty ugly sentiment.

English MPs will vote for what's best for their constituency/region/country, and so they should. That is not necessarily best for the devolved nations.

That leaves the MPs for the devolved nations massively outvoted and therefore dependent on the needs and wishes of the English people and their policies before considering how devolved policies and spending can be formulated.

[archie]

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English MPs will vote for what's best for their constituency/region/country, and so they should. That is not necessarily best for the devolved nations.

That leaves the MPs for the devolved nations massively outvoted and therefore dependent on the needs and wishes of the English people and their policies before considering how devolved policies and spending can be formulated.

That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

[He's here!]

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Not wishing to answer for HH here (I will anyway) but I always find it really hard to sum up the thoughts of tens of thousands of people or make sweeping generalisations.

Within the teaching profession you'll have the ones who are avidly anti-SNP and allow it to judge their opinions and you'll also have the avidly pro-independence ones who will think the SNP can do no wrong and will wish to put the blame on the Tories and whitewash the SNP of as much responsibility as possible.

I don't work in teaching but in my line of work I'd fully confess to being an outlier, so trying to sum up the thoughts and feelings of a large group of people whose opinion I don't really share can be a bit of a challenge.

I take your point, but when you've been working in a particular industry/profession for a long number of years you can form a relatively well-informed view.

It's not as black and white as to divide opinions along political lines. Most rational-thinking colleagues are not so blinkered in their political allegiances that they would refuse to countenance criticism of the Scottish government even if they are staunch SNP voters. For example, the head teacher of the school I've most recently been working in is a passionate backer of independence and was a Sturgeon devotee, but regards Somerville as an imbecile and puts her colleagues' wellbeing ahead of how she'll vote at the ballot box.

Many, of course, simply don't get involved when the staffroom chat turns to politics. Like any workplace but particularly, I would suggest, in an educational environment, it's crucial that colleagues are aligned when it comes to performing their primary role as effectively as possible.

[He's here!]

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That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

That's it in a nutshell.

Personally thought it was a mistake to abolish England's regional assemblies.

[JeMeSouviens]

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That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

It is. Or at a more micro level that Inverness interests dominate Highland. It is beyond ridiculous that "local" government stretches from Ardnamurchan to Caithness!

[archie]

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It is. Or at a more micro level that Inverness interests dominate Highland. It is beyond ridiculous that "local" government stretches from Ardnamurchan to Caithness!

It's an interesting debate. The old district and regional council structures could be argued as top heavy, but they allowed for the grouping of services at a more granular level. Issues with a particularly local focus like housing were at district level, whereas services that benefited from economies of scale, like social work and education, were at a regional level. Argyll used to be cited as an area that benefitted from standards being raised because of the wider experience of Glasgow being in the same region. I think that would address some of the points you raise, but I don't think it could be justified on over governance grounds. Is there a case for more councils but with shared services for certain functions?

[Jack]

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That's a slightly different take to what some have been arguing here. But again it falls into the trap of seeing things through an English, Scottish, Welsh or NI prism. It totally ignores things like economic interests. It also fundamentally ignores that MPs do not vote on whether they are from England, Scotland etc. By that logic Mhari Black and Douglas Ross would vote together for Scotland's interests. They don't because they have different philosophical views on what Scotland interests are. And that applies across Westminster.

I posted yesterday about the complaint from Aberdeen that central belt interests dominate in Holyrood. Do you think that is an issue too?

You're missing a fundamental point as is your way with your posts.

[archie]

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You're missing a fundamental point as is your way with your posts.

And that point is?

[Jack]

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And that point is?

You regularly miss fundamental points when they don't suit.

[archie]

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You regularly miss fundamental points when they don't suit.

That's just getting personal now Jack. So the fundamental point is?

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64978689

Shock.

[Berwickhibby]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64978689

Shock.

Someone will be along shortly to paint on the windows

[marinello59]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64978689

Shock.

Just when you think our Islanders have suffered enough. There are real consequences for peoples lives because of this absolute farce. And still nobody takes responsibility.

[xyz23jc]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64978689

Shock.

The shock is it's on the BBC website... Aye?

[He's here!]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...lling-29479637

'SNP lurching to right and falling apart, claims Starmer'

[Glory Lurker]

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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...lling-29479637

'SNP lurching to right and falling apart, claims Starmer'

He would say that. Also has a veiled pop at the Scottish branch and shows a bit disregard for Donald Dewar's devolution settlement.

And if he thinks any SNP leaver is going to join Labour he needs his head looked.

Next!

[Santa Cruz]

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He would say that. Also has a veiled pop at the Scottish branch and shows a bit disregard for Donald Dewar's devolution settlement.

And if he thinks any SNP leaver is going to join Labour he needs his head looked.

Next!

Do you think SNP leavers have joined Alba?

[Ozyhibby]

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Do you think SNP leavers have joined Alba?

Probably haven’t joined anywhere and are still there to be won back over by a new SNP leader. I think they still vote SNP.


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[weecounty hibby]

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Do you think SNP leavers have joined Alba?

I don't. I think the vast majority have just gone back to being yessers who aren't party members, i know a handful who are in that camp. Theyll still vote SNP and still want independence but are no longer party members.

[Rumble de Thump]

What are the benefits of being a member of a political party? Is it just getting to vote on leadership contests?

[Santa Cruz]

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Probably haven’t joined anywhere and are still there to be won back over by a new SNP leader. I think they still vote SNP.


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You might be right. I was more thinking if you're a member of any party, that indicates you are more interested in politics than your more typical voter who just places a vote. If you then leave for whatever reason but still hold strong political views, I would have thought you move your vote to a party who supports issues you most align with. At the same time showing you protest against the party you were a member of but feel let down by.

[He's here!]

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He would say that. Also has a veiled pop at the Scottish branch and shows a bit disregard for Donald Dewar's devolution settlement.

And if he thinks any SNP leaver is going to join Labour he needs his head looked.

Next!

Yes he would say that, but with the SNP in a mess now's the time to capitalise - and he does acknowledge the mass exodus of SNP members doesn't mean they'll automatically switch to Labour. I do think though that the chance to put a Labour government in place (thereby ensuring Scottish voters DO get the government they vote for) will help him make inroads into changing the Scottish political landscape.

[Rumble de Thump]

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Yes he would say that, but with the SNP in a mess now's the time to capitalise - and he does acknowledge the mass exodus of SNP members doesn't mean they'll automatically switch to Labour. I do think though that the chance to put a Labour government in place (thereby ensuring Scottish voters DO get the government they vote for) will help him make inroads into changing the Scottish political landscape.

Although some people have made it clear they would love it to be the case, the SNP isn't in a mess.

[Ozyhibby]

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Yes he would say that, but with the SNP in a mess now's the time to capitalise - and he does acknowledge the mass exodus of SNP members doesn't mean they'll automatically switch to Labour. I do think though that the chance to put a Labour government in place (thereby ensuring Scottish voters DO get the government they vote for) will help him make inroads into changing the Scottish political landscape.

You think Labour can win in Scotland in the next 18 months?


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[He's here!]

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Although some people have made it clear they would love it to be the case, the SNP isn't in a mess.

I think even their most ardent supporters would acknowledge they've hit troubled waters.