Climate change and the impending apocalypse

[archie]

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100% renewable!! But they went down because they had to pay extra for the gas premium price.

Because renewables can't provide consistent supply.

[archie]

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The government paid hundreds of millions last year to companies to switch off wind turbines as the infrastructure can’t cope with the electricity produced. That’s shameful.

They need the power down south but the cables linking Scotland with the populist centres aren’t big enough.

Good programme about power production with that Guy Martin available on C4 on demand

It will be an issue until we crack energy storage.

[Stairway 2 7]

Another major problem is heating our homes. Will be decades before we fully switch to electric heating

[hibsbollah]

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Because renewables can't provide consistent supply.

It depends how you define ‘consistent’. If that means full supply every time you want it for as long as you want it in a domestic environment, maybe that’s not an option anymore?

[archie]

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It depends how you define ‘consistent’. If that means full supply every time you want it for as long as you want it in a domestic environment, maybe that’s not an option anymore?

Well that's what I had in mind, yes.

[archie]

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It depends how you define ‘consistent’. If that means full supply every time you want it for as long as you want it in a domestic environment, maybe that’s not an option anymore?

Reflecting on this, I think what you are suggesting is a really tough sell

[hibsbollah]

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Reflecting on this, I think what you are suggesting is a really tough sell

It’s almost inevitable, it won’t be a matter of governments or scientists selling it as an idea to the population, it will just be fact. Resources are finite. Just two examples off the top of my head, this summer in France when there was no rain for months, nuclear power stations were having to ration supply when the fuel rods weren’t receiving enough water because of low water levels. People were learning to use electricity at certain times and to ration their use. Showers at certain times.

Similarly, I have an electric charging point in the outside of my house for my car. When I need a charge, I decide whether to get a fast charge which will cost me more but give me more power at 7kw, or do it at 1kw,or also to stick it on overnight when the demands at its lowest and its cheaper, for times when my need isn’t great.

I’m sure there are many other examples, not limited to electricity supply but use part of the same wider pattern. It’s not always about shivering in some cold post apocalyptic wasteland of Green austerity or some gammony cliche , but making conscious choices about what’s necessary and what isn’t.

[green&left]

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It’s almost inevitable, it won’t be a matter of governments or scientists selling it as an idea to the population, it will just be fact. Resources are finite. Just two examples off the top of my head, this summer in France when there was no rain for months, nuclear power stations were having to ration supply when the fuel rods weren’t receiving enough water because of low water levels. People were learning to use electricity at certain times and to ration their use. Showers at certain times.

Similarly, I have an electric charging point in the outside of my house for my car. When I need a charge, I decide whether to get a fast charge which will cost me more but give me more power at 7kw, or do it at 1kw,or also to stick it on overnight when the demands at its lowest and its cheaper, for times when my need isn’t great.

I’m sure there are many other examples, not limited to electricity supply but use part of the same wider pattern. It’s not always about shivering in some cold post apocalyptic wasteland of Green austerity or some gammony cliche , but making conscious choices about what’s necessary and what isn’t.

Suspect so, especially with Torness set to decommission in 5 years time. It provides baseline 1.3GW 24/7/365 (except for planned refuelling), which with fag packet maths is 45-50% of Scotlands usage. For comparison you'd need 2.5 Whitelee's to be running 24/7 with the ideal wind conditions to get the same output.

Regarding storage Whitelee have/are building battery storage. Think it will be roughly half a football pitch in size and will hold enough storage to power 150,000 homes for one hour. How sustainable building a warehouse half the size of Hampden and filling it with batteries so 150,000 homes can be powered for 1 hour is I have no idea...? I guess in conjunction with gravitational energy storage such as the one down the Leith Docks it could fill the gaps for renewables (https://www.engineernewsnetwork.com/...-demonstrator/)

If anyone has any decent reading or viewing on what we're going to do with all these spent lithium-ion batteries from cars and storage plants I'm be keen to see them. Not something I've looked into but keen to learn on it

[hibsbollah]

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Suspect so, especially with Torness set to decommission in 5 years time. It provides baseline 1.3GW 24/7/365 (except for planned refuelling), which with fag packet maths is 45-50% of Scotlands usage. For comparison you'd need 2.5 Whitelee's to be running 24/7 with the ideal wind conditions to get the same output.

Regarding storage Whitelee have/are building battery storage. Think it will be roughly half a football pitch in size and will hold enough storage to power 150,000 homes for one hour. How sustainable building a warehouse half the size of Hampden and filling it with batteries so 150,000 homes can be powered for 1 hour is I have no idea...? I guess in conjunction with gravitational energy storage such as the one down the Leith Docks it could fill the gaps for renewables (https://www.engineernewsnetwork.com/...-demonstrator/)

If anyone has any decent reading or viewing on what we're going to do with all these spent lithium-ion batteries from cars and storage plants I'm be keen to see them. Not something I've looked into but keen to learn on it

Obviously the production process has a carbon footprint and as you say the spent batteries will need to be disposed of. I suppose one reason why they are considered green is they don’t contain toxic metals so won’t pollute after use.

Just build a massive wall with them. Either use them to play a huge game of Jenga with the rest of the world, or use the wall to keep all the small boats fleeing war and envirodevastation, depending on your point of view

[Ozyhibby]

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Obviously the production process has a carbon footprint and as you say the spent batteries will need to be disposed of. I suppose one reason why they are considered green is they don’t contain toxic metals so won’t pollute after use.

Just build a massive wall with them. Either use them to play a huge game of Jenga with the rest of the world, or use the wall to keep all the small boats fleeing war and envirodevastation, depending on your point of view

You can get batteries for your home than will store a full days supply. They can also help you only pay the overnight cost of electricity. Cost about £5k I think but if enough people had them then storage issues could be alleviated.


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[neil7908]

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You can get batteries for your home than will store a full days supply. They can also help you only pay the overnight cost of electricity. Cost about £5k I think but if enough people had them then storage issues could be alleviated.


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This is the future imo. More self generation and less reliance on the grid. It obviously won't work for all or mean we need to completely abandon mass energy generation but micro renewables and battery storage are the way forward.

[archie]

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This is the future imo. More self generation and less reliance on the grid. It obviously won't work for all or mean we need to completely abandon mass energy generation but micro renewables and battery storage are the way forward.

Obviously tougher in an urban environment. Isn’t one of the options to use electric car batteries as storage now. I know there are concerns about cycling, but I have seen proposals to charge the car at night and feed the grid during peak times.

[neil7908]

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Obviously tougher in an urban environment. Isn’t one of the options to use electric car batteries as storage now. I know there are concerns about cycling, but I have seen proposals to charge the car at night and feed the grid during peak times.

Exactly. Vehicle to Grid (V2G) as you've described above has the potential to be a huge benefit. Your right that the challenges are much harder for say urban dwellers in a block of flats, and personally that's why we'll always need some form of mass generation through wind farms, nuclear etc. But we need to start shifting the balance. Technology is going to make some of this much easier if its deployed in the correct way (that's a big if though!)

[Moulin Yarns]

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Exactly. Vehicle to Grid (V2G) as you've described above has the potential to be a huge benefit. Your right that the challenges are much harder for say urban dwellers in a block of flats, and personally that's why we'll always need some form of mass generation through wind farms, nuclear etc. But we need to start shifting the balance. Technology is going to make some of this much easier if its deployed in the correct way (that's a big if though!)

The only problem I can see with V2G is that it requires individuals to keep their EV connected even when charged.

I have said for years that it should be policy for every new build to have full solar PV on the roof with battery storage for evening use.

[danhibees1875]

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The only problem I can see with V2G is that it requires individuals to keep their EV connected even when charged.

I have said for years that it should be policy for every new build to have full solar PV on the roof with battery storage for evening use.

I think solar panels are a requirement of new builds, for recent sites anyway (2018/19?). Not sure battery storage is standard though.

[Ozyhibby]

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I think solar panels are a requirement of new builds, for recent sites anyway (2018/19?). Not sure battery storage is standard though.

Most solar instals are marketed with an element of battery storage now because the feed in tariffs for the grid are no longer as good as they used to be.


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[Pretty Boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64886116

Another interesting carbon capture/removal idea that seems to be showing promise.

Obviously we have to be wary of putting too much trust in stuff like this and just carrying on as now but I suppose it could be argue this kind of thing buys us more time and smooth the transition to a lower carbon economy.

[Sergio sledge]

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It will be an issue until we crack energy storage.

They're going to need an awful lot more of these types of things: https://www.power-technology.com/pro...hydro-project/

It's planned for a couple of miles down the road from my house and will pump water up from Loch Ness during times of surplus and let the water back down into Loch Ness when it is needed. It's an ideal location for it given the height difference in such a short distance from Loch Ness and the close proximity of at least 4 windfarms within 5 - 10 miles of it.

I'm not sure if it is part of planning applications now but there really should be a condition of granting permission for new on and offshore windfarms that investment is made into storage solutions like this in order to assist the grid instead of them being paid to shut their turbines down.

Interestingly, the scheme near me is one of the things that Inverness Caley Thistle are banking on assisting with their financial issues that they are encountering at the minute. I'm not sure what sort of stake they have in it though.

[Sergio sledge]

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I think solar panels are a requirement of new builds, for recent sites anyway (2018/19?). Not sure battery storage is standard though.

I don't think it is an absolute requirement in the sense that it isn't mandatory to have PV panels, however it certainly is one of the most straightforward ways to get a house through the requirements of section 6 of the Scottish Technical Standards.

Similarly, for non-domestic properties, it used to be that the simplest way to pass the requirements of section 6 would be to add a heap of PV panels to the roof of the building, however the new regulations that came into force this year are more focused on ensuring new buildings are as energy efficient as possible, thus reducing grid demand through efficient design rather than bolting on a pile of PV panels.

Whilst PV panels might provide a solution in terms of local power generation and reducing grid reliance, there's an argument that they aren't actually that green a technology given the high embodied carbon and energy that goes into the manufacturing and disposal of silicon PV systems. Traditionally the high embodied carbon of silicon PV panels was offset by the high grid carbon factor such that you'd be in the positive in terms of carbon reduction after a few years, but given that grid decarbonisation is rapidly reducing the grid carbon factors, it's getting to the point where the embodied carbon of a typical silicon PV panel is more than the carbon is saves by not using grid electricity over the life of the panel.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting the common weal attacks the government government again. Privatisation again but this time over tree planting

https://commonweal.scot/scotlands-mo...ing-us-poorer/

Is there no aspect of Scotland which isn’t there mainly to make the very rich richer? Is there no limit to how much the Scottish Government will bust a gut to increase the pace at which Scotland is asset-stripped by the wealthy

[archie]

Populist push back against green policies? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...utch-elections

[Hibrandenburg]

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Populist push back against green policies? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...utch-elections

Our planet is ****ed.

[hibsbollah]

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Populist push back against green policies? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...utch-elections

It’s only one result in the Dutch provincial elections, not at the State level. However it is fascinating how massive Dutch Agribusiness has managed to persuade a section of disenfranchised poor Dutch voters that they have something in common. That’s what happens when traditional working class parties alienate their core supporters, as we’ve seen across the west. I think the Guardians take on the story is a bit weird tbh. It’s not really a Green anti green dynamic.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It’s only one result in the Dutch provincial elections, not at the State level. However it is fascinating how massive Dutch Agribusiness has managed to persuade a section of disenfranchised poor Dutch voters that they have something in common. That’s what happens when traditional working class parties alienate their core supporters, as we’ve seen across the west. I think the Guardians take on the story is a bit weird tbh. It’s not really a Green anti green dynamic.

Mix that in with, despite the country's reputation for liberalism and "progressive" values, outside of the main cities, it's actually very conservative.

In that light, the results don't surprise me too much.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting graph on how livable the future will be for children born now

https://mobile.twitter.com/frantecol...05034528370689

[Stairway 2 7]

A new poll says the Dutch farming party would take 33 seats and be the biggest party

An interesting thread on Netherlands disregard for the environment and why they are being told to cut nitrogen use
https://mobile.twitter.com/tiesjoost...66534357098498

[Stairway 2 7]

Uk helping climate change too, well climate change for the worse

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b2307530.html

Flight tax cut sparks surge in new UK domestic flights
Air Passenger Duty for internal links will be cut from £13 to £6.50 on 1 April

[grunt]

The UK has almost no credible plans to adapt to climate change

https://www.newscientist.com/article...limate-change/

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ritains-heaths

I found this really interesting (particularly if you’re of the ‘practical solutions to climate issues without the culture war’ ilk). I had given no thought at all to the possibility that MoD land could be a haven for biodiversity, but of course it is. I wonder if there’s ever been surveys of the shooting range areas in the Pentlands? The DMZ between the two Koreas is a much more extreme example of no-go areas that become havens-there are species extinct elsewhere on the peninsula (a rare deer, rumours of Siberian tiger) on that narrow strip of land-A reminder that in the darkest times nature can find wee niches.

[wookie70]

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https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ritains-heaths

I found this really interesting (particularly if you’re of the ‘practical solutions to climate issues without the culture war’ ilk). I had given no thought at all to the possibility that MoD land could be a haven for biodiversity, but of course it is. I wonder if there’s ever been surveys of the shooting range areas in the Pentlands? The DMZ between the two Koreas is a much more extreme example of no-go areas that become havens-there are species extinct elsewhere on the peninsula (a rare deer, rumours of Siberian tiger) on that narrow strip of land-A reminder that in the darkest times nature can find wee niches.

I suppose it is obvious when you think about it. The less humans that touch a place the better it becomes for nature and the planet