SNP are lying b******s as well !

***Ozyhibby*** · 27-02-2023 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

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Thanks, I'm trying to just pay attention to how it impacts consumers (me). Seems sensible to me to make it a UK wide roll out. Hopefully by that time inflation will have came down which would make this new policy more affordable and successful in achieving its aims.

Be as well closing Holyrood as well I guess.

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**degenerated** · 27-02-2023 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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Be as well closing Holyrood as well I guess.

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That's the long term aim, isn't it.

**Santa Cruz** · 27-02-2023 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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Be as well closing Holyrood as well I guess.

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No defo keep it open, just need to have policies where future legislation is not so flawed and in this case rushed.

**Rumble de Thump** · 27-02-2023 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

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No defo keep it open, just need to have policies where future legislation is not so flawed and in this case rushed.

The Scottish Government just needs to have policies that the UK Government approves of.

***Bostonhibby*** · 27-02-2023 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Rumble de Thump

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The Scottish Government just needs to have policies that the UK Government approves of.

Or are as well thought out, planned and implemented as the current UK governments

Absolutely U turn proof, like trussonomics for example. Strong and stable!

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**Santa Cruz** · 27-02-2023 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Rumble de Thump

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The Scottish Government just needs to have policies that the UK Government approves of.

In the 2 areas the UK Gov have signalled (they've not issued a S35 for the DRR yet) a clash of legislation, are either of these policies in their current form popular with Scottish voters? Looks like the approval is not there from voters either imo.

***Ozyhibby*** · 27-02-2023 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

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In the 2 areas the UK Gov have signalled (they've not issued a S35 for the DRR yet) a clash of legislation, are either of these policies in their current form popular with Scottish voters? Looks like the approval is not there from voters either imo.

So no difficult decisions then?

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**Santa Cruz** · 27-02-2023 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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So no difficult decisions then?

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Not sure what you mean? Are you acknowledging the policies as they stand aren't popular with voters?

***Berwickhibby*** · 27-02-2023 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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So no difficult decisions then?

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The decisions and spirit of both the Acts have public approval, however the mechanics and the way it will impact on the Scottish public show how poorly it has been thought out.

**He's here!** · 27-02-2023 12:19 PM

Forbes: 'Bottle scheme could cause economic carnage'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64785574

With all 3 leadership candidates criticising the scheme it seems likely to be put on the back burner - or become part of a nationwide rollout.

Combined with the sidelining of the gender reforms, this will hopefully see the toxic Greens on their way out of power.

**degenerated** · 27-02-2023 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

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Not sure what you mean? Are you acknowledging the policies as they stand aren't popular with voters?

Don't worry, it won't be long before section 35s are issued for policies that aren't as contentious. This is just an exercise in conditioning.

**Santa Cruz** · 27-02-2023 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by degenerated

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Don't worry, it won't be long before section 35s are issued for policies that aren't as contentious. This is just an exercise in conditioning.

I'm not worried about section 35's becoming the norm. There's only been one issued in over 20 years. I don't disagree with either policy (made clear in other posts/threads) but they do need amended.

***SteveHFC*** · 27-02-2023 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by He's here!

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Forbes: 'Bottle scheme could cause economic carnage'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64785574

With all 3 leadership candidates criticising the scheme it seems likely to be put on the back burner - or become part of a nationwide rollout.

Combined with the sidelining of the gender reforms, this will hopefully see the toxic Greens on their way out of power.

Could only see the Greens leaving if Forbes or Regan is appointed.

***Just Alf*** · 27-02-2023 12:39 PM

In yesterday's Lorna Slater interview the published quotes came from she also said the shed been in talks with a minister in UK Gov and that it had been signalled that the internal market bill wouldn't be an issue.

Winder why they've changed their mind?

***Stairway 2 7*** · 27-02-2023 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Just Alf

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In yesterday's Lorna Slater interview the published quotes came from she also said the shed been in talks with a minister in UK Gov and that it had been signalled that the internal market bill wouldn't be an issue.

Winder why they've changed their mind?

Uk government said she hadn't and asked her to show any email correspondence saying the opposite. Her interview has obviously went viral for being a car crash, but it is ridiculous her saying they might change parts of it like for small businesses just two days before the deadline. She's so obviously in above her head

**He's here!** · 27-02-2023 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

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I didn't realise it wouldn't be currently legal due to the internal market act and they knew that. It's like they are choosing things they know aren't legal so they can be refused and score points.

We should be able to do it, but that's not the same. We should control our corporation tax but that's not devolved so if we change it we know it will be refused

That was always Sturgeon's tactic. Manufacture grievances with Westminster.

As with the gender reforms fiasco, public opinion would be with the UK government if they were compelled to pause this shambolic initiative. It won't get that far though, because whoever becomes the new FM will be putting it on hold, or even ditching it completely.

**Mr Grieves** · 27-02-2023 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by He's here!

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That was always Sturgeon's tactic. Manufacture grievances with Westminster.

As with the gender reforms fiasco, public opinion would be with the UK government if they were compelled to pause this shambolic initiative. It won't get that far though, because whoever becomes the new FM will be putting it on hold, or even ditching it completely.

https://www.ft.com/content/0668efbd-ca9c-4b8b-a1c1-0c2adcd75348

Key to his decision to abandon the Tories now is his belief, based on discussions with party insiders, that Prime Minister Rishi Sunak will ramp up the so-called culture wars as a central part of his 2024 election strategy.

“It was made pretty clear the plan is to run a culture war to distract from fundamental economic failings,” Anderson said. “It’s not something I want any part of.”

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 27-02-2023 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by He's here!

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That was always Sturgeon's tactic. Manufacture grievances with Westminster.

Yep, because she really needed to do that. It's not as if there are any legitimate grievances such as Brexit, tory governments that we don't vote for or "opposition" parties at Westminster that are a pale imitation of the same thing at best.

Originally Posted by He's here!

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As with the gender reforms fiasco, public opinion would be with the UK government if they were compelled to pause this shambolic initiative. It won't get that far though, because whoever becomes the new FM will be putting it on hold, or even ditching it completely.

That would be the gender reforms "fiasco" that was backed by 2/3rds of MSPs in parliament. A bill that Spain also introduced on the exact same day, without any of the hyperbole or major backlash from their media or population. A bill that's effectively be in force in the ROI since 2015 without people there really taking much notice of it at all.

But hey ho, the Daily Mail and Express had some tasty headlines and they are the true governing powers. Never mind the people we actually elect.

***WhileTheChief..*** · 27-02-2023 03:30 PM

You think the Mail and Express hold that much influence over the people of Scotland? Do they even sell enough papers up here to influence anything?

You said yourself you have extreme left wing views. Could it maybe be your interpretation of things at play here? It seems to be one conspiracy after another!

I think the people of Scotland are far smarter than you think.

That they don’t agree with your politics doesn’t mean they’re short of intelligence or unable to follow politics with as much scrutiny as yourself.

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 27-02-2023 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

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You think the Mail and Express hold that much influence over the people of Scotland? Do they even sell enough papers up here to influence anything?

They certainly have enough influence to have kept going all of these years and to be front and centre piece of every newspaper rack across the country. Not to mention enough of an influence to have their headlines referenced in the mainstream media each day.

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

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You said yourself you have extreme left wing views.

No I never.

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

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Could it maybe be your interpretation of things at play here? It seems to be one conspiracy after another!

Of course it's my interpretation of things. Everybody has their own interpretations, there would never be anything to talk about otherwise, unless you prefer echo chambers.

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

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I think the people of Scotland are far smarter than you think.

You don't know what I think about how smart I think Scottish people are in general.

Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

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That they don’t agree with your politics doesn’t mean they’re short of intelligence or unable to follow politics with as much scrutiny as yourself.

I never said they were. You're making that assertion.

***Keith_M*** · 27-02-2023 04:31 PM

I'm confused as to why this deposit return scheme is considered so controversial. It's a fairly simple incentive to encourage recycling that's already used in a number of other countries.

When I lived in Germany, I didn't find it a particularly large burden to take my collection of bottles to the deposit return machine at Ald, Lidl, etc, when I did the shopping.

I just read an article that says Austria is planning the same...

"Austria has announced a 25-cent deposit will be levied on plastic bottles and aluminium cans, according to the Climate Protection Ministry.

From 2025, consumers will be able to return the items to any seller of these products and get €0.25 back on the price they paid.

"Austria is getting a deposit system. This way, we protect our nature and ensure that plastic bottles and cans are recycled properly", Environment Minister Leonore Gewessler (Greens) said."
https://www.thelocal.at/20220913/aus...lastic-bottles

**degenerated** · 27-02-2023 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Keith_M

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I'm confused as to why this deposit return scheme is considered so controversial. It's a fairly simple incentive to encourage recycling that's already used in a number of other countries.

When I lived in Germany, I didn't find it a particularly large burden to take my collection of bottles to the deposit return machine at Ald, Lidl, etc, when I did the shopping.

I just read an article that says Austria is planning the same...

"Austria has announced a 25-cent deposit will be levied on plastic bottles and aluminium cans, according to the Climate Protection Ministry.

From 2025, consumers will be able to return the items to any seller of these products and get €0.25 back on the price they paid.

"Austria is getting a deposit system. This way, we protect our nature and ensure that plastic bottles and cans are recycled properly", Environment Minister Leonore Gewessler (Greens) said."
https://www.thelocal.at/20220913/aus...lastic-bottles

Like the with the GRR stuff we are clearly too wee and stupid to be able to do it. Thankfully we have a benevolent, philanthropic and wiser neighbour to deal with this sort of stuff for us.

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 27-02-2023 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Keith_M

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I'm confused as to why this deposit return scheme is considered so controversial. It's a fairly simple incentive to encourage recycling that's already used in a number of other countries.

When I lived in Germany, I didn't find it a particularly large burden to take my collection of bottles to the deposit return machine at Ald, Lidl, etc, when I did the shopping.

I just read an article that says Austria is planning the same...

"Austria has announced a 25-cent deposit will be levied on plastic bottles and aluminium cans, according to the Climate Protection Ministry.

From 2025, consumers will be able to return the items to any seller of these products and get €0.25 back on the price they paid.

"Austria is getting a deposit system. This way, we protect our nature and ensure that plastic bottles and cans are recycled properly", Environment Minister Leonore Gewessler (Greens) said."
https://www.thelocal.at/20220913/aus...lastic-bottles

Because any idea that is remotely progressive in the UK these days is "far left extremism" according to the highest selling and most frequently quoted newspapers. That really is where we're at.

**He's here!** · 27-02-2023 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Keith_M

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I'm confused as to why this deposit return scheme is considered so controversial. It's a fairly simple incentive to encourage recycling that's already used in a number of other countries.

When I lived in Germany, I didn't find it a particularly large burden to take my collection of bottles to the deposit return machine at Ald, Lidl, etc, when I did the shopping.

I just read an article that says Austria is planning the same...

"Austria has announced a 25-cent deposit will be levied on plastic bottles and aluminium cans, according to the Climate Protection Ministry.

From 2025, consumers will be able to return the items to any seller of these products and get €0.25 back on the price they paid.

"Austria is getting a deposit system. This way, we protect our nature and ensure that plastic bottles and cans are recycled properly", Environment Minister Leonore Gewessler (Greens) said."
https://www.thelocal.at/20220913/aus...lastic-bottles

Not controversial just incompetently handled.

***WhileTheChief..*** · 27-02-2023 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

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Of course it's my interpretation of things. Everybody has their own interpretations, there would never be anything to talk about otherwise, unless you prefer echo chambers.
.

Not at all. I think you give the press way too much credit though.

The Mail and Express are 'the true governing powers'?

Nah, not even close.

**archie** · 27-02-2023 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Keith_M

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I'm confused as to why this deposit return scheme is considered so controversial. It's a fairly simple incentive to encourage recycling that's already used in a number of other countries.

When I lived in Germany, I didn't find it a particularly large burden to take my collection of bottles to the deposit return machine at Ald, Lidl, etc, when I did the shopping.

I just read an article that says Austria is planning the same...

"Austria has announced a 25-cent deposit will be levied on plastic bottles and aluminium cans, according to the Climate Protection Ministry.

From 2025, consumers will be able to return the items to any seller of these products and get €0.25 back on the price they paid.

"Austria is getting a deposit system. This way, we protect our nature and ensure that plastic bottles and cans are recycled properly", Environment Minister Leonore Gewessler (Greens) said."
https://www.thelocal.at/20220913/aus...lastic-bottles

Austrian scheme doesn't include glass. Also, unclear from the article about the implications for manufacturing as opposed to retailers.

***Keith_M*** · 27-02-2023 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by He's here!

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Not controversial just incompetently handled.

In what way?

(genuine question, no digs implied :-) )

**He's here!** · 27-02-2023 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Keith_M

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In what way?

(genuine question, no digs implied :-) )

Putting Lorna Slater in charge of it for one. An opt-out from the UK Internal Market Act is required for the scheme even to proceed (something businesses have been pointing out for some time) yet she now admits she has yet to apply for an exemption (while still expecting participants to sign up by tomorrow's deadline). Despite insisting it was 'full steam ahead' for a full August rollout just a few days ago she's rowed back today and accepted smaller businesses my need a year's grace period (yet, again, still wants them to sign up by tomorrow).