The Trans Rights Debate

[He's here!]

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I don't know. Who is the next FM and what are they going to decide?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64695290

Seems to be a range of views on what should happen to it. Still, axmccording to the National it's 'Onwards and Upwards!'

[147lothian]

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Wait until you get on Ze & Zir

This is gender ideology, which is a pseudoscience, the belief with gender ideology is that if you can change language you can change reality, so instead of calling sex, sex they call it gender and suddenly there are about 150 different genders, it's, woo woo politics, the make believe, hocus-pocus world of "I identify as" which as we have seen with the way that such a good communicator as Nicola Sturgeon was reduced to looking like a blabbering fool, can obviously be exploited by bad actors, if it's taken serious.

[CropleyWasGod]

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This is gender ideology, which is a pseudoscience, the belief with gender ideology is that if you can change language you can change reality, so instead of calling sex, sex they call it gender and suddenly there are about 150 different genders, it's, woo woo politics, the make believe, hocus-pocus world of "I identify as" which as we have seen with the way that such a good communicator as Nicola Sturgeon was reduced to looking like a blabbering fool, can obviously be exploited by bad actors, if it's taken serious.

It's not.

Those pronouns are used as an alternative to they/them. That's all.

[Santa Cruz]

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It's not.

Those pronouns are used as an alternative to they/them. That's all.

This is an area I don't understand. I see pronouns added to emails. I'm just looking for a reply, so what relevance is it that I know what the person would like to identify as who I'll never meet or even have any further communication with? Why do I need to know this and why does the person want me to know this?

[CropleyWasGod]

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This is an area I don't understand. I see pronouns added to emails. I'm just looking for a reply, so what relevance is it that I know what the person would like to identify as who I'll never meet or even have any further communication with? Why do I need to know this and why does the person want me to know this?

For many, the signatures are standard, so they're on every email.

On the broader question, for me it's along the lines of the Mrs/Miss/Ms labelling from a generation ago. That was important to some, not so to others. Similarly with pronouns. If that person wants to be called "Ms." or "them", it's basic courtesy to use that.

There's also the argument that the use of appropriate pronouns is encouragement for those who struggle with their gender identity, and need strong role models.

[Santa Cruz]

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For many, the signatures are standard, so they're on every email.

On the broader question, for me it's along the lines of the Mrs/Miss/Ms labelling from a generation ago. That was important to some, not so to others. Similarly with pronouns. If that person wants to be called "Ms." or "them", it's basic courtesy to use that.

There's also the argument that the use of appropriate pronouns is encouragement for those who struggle with their gender identity, and need strong role models.

Thanks. So the email contains their name (just a first name and surname, no title), then the pronouns are added below. If I was responding would the person expect me to use their first name. I know this sounds stupid, I just don't see where I'm inserting "they/them".

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks. So the email contains their name (just a first name and surname, no title), then the pronouns are added below. If I was responding would the person expect me to use their first name. I know this sounds stupid, I just don't see where I'm inserting "they/them".

You don't need to. "Dear Jackie" seems to be fine these days

However, as an example, if you had to take the matter further (maybe a complaint), and you had to speak to or email a supervisor about that person's behaviour, you would use whatever pronoun they preferred.

[Santa Cruz]

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You don't need to. "Dear Jackie" seems to be fine these days

However, as an example, if you had to take the matter further (maybe a complaint), and you had to speak to or email a supervisor about that person's behaviour, you would use whatever pronoun they preferred.

[archie]

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You don't need to. "Dear Jackie" seems to be fine these days

However, as an example, if you had to take the matter further (maybe a complaint), and you had to speak to or email a supervisor about that person's behaviour, you would use whatever pronoun they preferred.

So let me get this right, putting pronouns in e mails is to make it easier to have complaints made about you?!!!

[147lothian]

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It's not.

Those pronouns are used as an alternative to they/them. That's all.

Are you talking about more than one person? They/Them is plural you can't call an individual person They/Them it makes no sense in English grammar.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So let me get this right, putting pronouns in e mails is to make it easier to have complaints made about you?!!!

Nowhere near what I said

[CropleyWasGod]

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Are you talking about more than one person? They/Them is plural you can't call an individual person They/Them it makes no sense in English grammar.

If that's what they want....

[archie]

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Nowhere near what I said

Just checking as I wasn't sure it was the best way to secure buy in...

[McD]

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Are you talking about more than one person? They/Them is plural you can't call an individual person They/Them it makes no sense in English grammar.

they/them is often used by individuals who don’t identify as female (she/her) or male (he/him)

[Since90+2]

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For many, the signatures are standard, so they're on every email.

On the broader question, for me it's along the lines of the Mrs/Miss/Ms labelling from a generation ago. That was important to some, not so to others. Similarly with pronouns. If that person wants to be called "Ms." or "them", it's basic courtesy to use that.

There's also the argument that the use of appropriate pronouns is encouragement for those who struggle with their gender identity, and need strong role models.

It would suggested at my place of work (legal industry) that it should be mandatory. One of the responses to this was that it would then mandate people to make a declaration of this kind at work, even if they aren't comfortable doing so, and it has no relevance to their ability to do the role.

No effective counter argument was put forward and the proposal was dropped.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It would suggested at my place of work (legal industry) that it should be mandatory. One of the responses to this was that it would then mandate people to make a declaration of this kind at work, even if they aren't comfortable doing so, and it has no relevance to their ability to do the role.

No effective counter argument was put forward and the proposal was dropped.

Seems fair to me. Just like the Ms thing, it should be a personal choice IMO. But a respected choice.

[The Tubs]

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Are you talking about more than one person? They/Them is plural you can't call an individual person They/Them it makes no sense in English grammar.

Someone stole my bicycle yesterday. They took it around 10pm.

From the Oxford dictionary:

The word they (with its counterparts them, their, and themselves) as a singular pronoun to refer to a person of unspecified gender has been used since at least the 14th century. In the late 20th century, as the traditional use of he to refer to a person of either gender came under scrutiny on the grounds of sexism, this use of theybecame more common. It is now generally accepted in contexts where it follows an indefinite pronoun such as anyone, no one, someone, or a person, as in anyone can join if they are a resident and each to their own. In other contexts, coming after singular nouns, the use of they is now common, though less widely accepted, especially in formal contexts. Sentences such as ask a friend if they could help are still criticized for being ungrammatical. Nevertheless, in view of the growing acceptance of theyand its obvious practical advantages, they is used in this dictionary in many cases where he would have been used formerly. In a more recent development, they is now being used to refer to specific individuals (as in Alex is bringing their laptop). Like the gender-neutral honorific Mx1, the singular they is preferred by some individuals who identify as neither male nor female. See also he and she.

[Moulin Yarns]

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they/them is often used by individuals who don’t identify as female (she/her) or male (he/him)

I understand what Cropley was God said, 'they' express themselves very well. 😁

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64695227

Freeman 'would not have supported bill'.

[neil7908]

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Are you talking about more than one person? They/Them is plural you can't call an individual person They/Them it makes no sense in English grammar.

It's crazy right? It's almost like language changes and evolves over time! Or should we all be speaking like we're in MacBeth? Should we start a campaign for gay to solely to used to describe a happy person?

[James310]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64695227

Freeman 'would not have supported bill'.

That well known far right politician Jeane Freeman? Actually didn't she used to be in the Communist party?

[He's here!]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...929af54fa2b30e

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

[J-C]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

Saw this on GMB this morning, India Willoughby a transgenger broadcaster was all trans athletes to be treated as women, even though they have a big advantage genetically. Didn't want them to be treated differently but unfortunately sports for trans cannot be treated the same. Lia Thomas has just won US top college swimming title winning by just under 2 secs.

[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

Brilliant some common sense, hopefully spurs on other sporting bodies to do the same. There's simply a physical advantage ans it's unfair on women. Men's sport can be open category

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1638829266291793921

"You cannot come on my show and talk about how Labour want to tackle violence against women and then refer to a double rapist as 'she'!'

After the part the GRR shambles played in Sturgeon's downfall, it's little wonder Starmer has made it clear that "gender recognition will not be one of the priorities of the incoming Labour government."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...rans-ideology/

[Stairway 2 7]

Think the greens must be confident humza is winning as without the coalition they fall back to obscurity as a fringe party

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...nder-law-veto/

Greens will quit government if FM fails to challenge gender law veto

[WhileTheChief..]

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You don't need to. "Dear Jackie" seems to be fine these days

However, as an example, if you had to take the matter further (maybe a complaint), and you had to speak to or email a supervisor about that person's behaviour, you would use whatever pronoun they preferred.

How do you address them instead of Mr or Mrs Blloggs?

As in, Dear "xxx" Bloggs ??

[He's here!]

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Think the greens must be confident humza is winning as without the coalition they fall back to obscurity as a fringe party

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...nder-law-veto/

Greens will quit government if FM fails to challenge gender law veto

That would be a major upside if Yousef doesn't end up winning.

[Paul1642]

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Think the greens must be confident humza is winning as without the coalition they fall back to obscurity as a fringe party

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...nder-law-veto/

Greens will quit government if FM fails to challenge gender law veto

Good riddance to them.