SNP are lying b******s as well !

[James310]

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Works fine in the EU.

But at the moment say you are exporting your wine to the UK from France, it will be labeled as being sent to the UK and arrive in the UK and be distributed throughout the UK. Now this producer will need to register with the Scottish Government and have different labels for Scotland so likely a new production run or something, if they don't comply they get fined. So extra costs and a new production line will need established, for some it might be fine but for smaller producers they will probably just not bother and stop producing for the Scottish market.

As for the fine I am not sure how that would work, how can the Scottish Government fine a company based in France.

[James310]

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Theres one in the car park of our local Sainsbury

So if you bought your can of coke at the corner shop what does the Sainsburys machine give you back? 20p for Sainsburys? Even although you never bought it there in the first place? Or literally a 20p coin?

[Hibrandenburg]

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Yeah I’m wondering how it will work. You pay £2.40 more on a 12 pack and get it back. Also where will these recycling places be located if say I bought a can of coke out a corner shop?

Over here the supermarkets have machines that collect the empties and give you a voucher that you can cash at the check-out. Smaller shops take the empties over the counter.

[Ozyhibby]

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Over here the supermarkets have machines that collect the empties and give you a voucher that you can cash at the check-out. Smaller shops take the empties over the counter.

Seems pretty straight forward. We are not reinventing the wheel here. There are working examples to copy all over Europe.


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[James310]

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Seems pretty straight forward. We are not reinventing the wheel here. There are working examples to copy all over Europe.


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Lol, overly complex was the description from the Scottish Hospitality Group, but what do they know. They probably just hate Nicola Sturgeon.

[Zambernardi1875]

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Seems pretty straight forward. We are not reinventing the wheel here. There are working examples to copy all over Europe.


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Seems a disadvantage to small business though as big supermarkets will easily supply these RVM and benefit from people collecting cans they bought at the corner shop to spend in Tesco. Even though the corner shop has put an extra 20p on each can

[Hibrandenburg]

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But at the moment say you are exporting your wine to the UK from France, it will be labeled as being sent to the UK and arrive in the UK and be distributed throughout the UK. Now this producer will need to register with the Scottish Government and have different labels for Scotland so likely a new production run or something, if they don't comply they get fined. So extra costs and a new production line will need established, for some it might be fine but for smaller producers they will probably just not bother and stop producing for the Scottish market.

As for the fine I am not sure how that would work, how can the Scottish Government fine a company based in France.

It's illegal to sell some drinks containers that are non-returnable. The deposit is added to the price of the container by the supermarket and payed back when the container is returned. The supermarket will then sell the returns to recycling companies who will either recycle them or dispose of them in an environmentally friendly way.

The manufacturer only has to ensure the labelling is correct for the country they export to, which they already do due to other regulations regarding language and nutritional information.

[archie]

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Over here the supermarkets have machines that collect the empties and give you a voucher that you can cash at the check-out. Smaller shops take the empties over the counter.

I think the key point there is that the consumer makes the decision. In the Scottish scheme a company can get fined if the threshold for recycling has not been met

[James310]

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It's illegal to sell some drinks containers that are non-returnable. The deposit is added to the price of the container by the supermarket and payed back when the container is returned. The supermarket will then sell the returns to recycling companies who will either recycle them or dispose of them in an environmentally friendly way.

The manufacturer only has to ensure the labelling is correct for the country they export to, which they already do due to other regulations regarding language and nutritional information.

So why are many producers saying they won't bother sending products to Scotland if it's so easy and straight forward?

[Zambernardi1875]

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It's illegal to sell some drinks containers that are non-returnable. The deposit is added to the price of the container by the supermarket and payed back when the container is returned. The supermarket will then sell the returns to recycling companies who will either recycle them or dispose of them in an environmentally friendly way.

The manufacturer only has to ensure the labelling is correct for the country they export to, which they already do due to other regulations regarding language and nutritional information.

So if I buy wholesale from England, the companies supplying the wholesale companies in England will have to work out how much they roughly sell to Scotland and supply different labels? Also why add a cost to the consumer instead of increasing and improving recycling centres.

[archie]

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Seems pretty straight forward. We are not reinventing the wheel here. There are working examples to copy all over Europe.


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You won't like this as it is from a trade body, but it raises interesting points, including comparisons with Europe. https://wsta.co.uk/myth-busting-deposit-return-schemes/

[Hibrandenburg]

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So why are many producers saying they won't bother sending products to Scotland if it's so easy and straight forward?

There was a similar reaction over here before the laws came into effect and drinks manufacturers and retailers fought in court to stop the introduction of the new laws right up until they were introduced. The legal actions only managed to delay the introduction for 9 months, but low and behold, nobody stopped selling their products in Germany.

Of course manufacturers want as little hassle as possible in getting their products to market, but even they have a responsibility to the environment, one that they now have to take seriously.

If you ask your average German about the recycling laws, I'm sure the vast majority wouldn't want to go back to the old ways.

[Hibrandenburg]

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So if I buy wholesale from England, the companies supplying the wholesale companies in England will have to work out how much they roughly sell to Scotland and supply different labels? Also why add a cost to the consumer instead of increasing and improving recycling centres.

I don't share your faith in people to do the right thing, having a deposit on glass and plastic only costs money if they don't return the items for recycling.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I've updated my typo.

[James310]

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There was a similar reaction over here before the laws came into effect and drinks manufacturers and retailers fought in court to stop the introduction of the new laws right up until they were introduced. The legal actions only managed to delay the introduction for 9 months, but low and behold, nobody stopped selling their products in Germany.

Of course manufacturers want as little hassle as possible in getting their products to market, but even they have a responsibility to the environment, one that they now have to take seriously.

If you ask your average German about the recycling laws, I'm sure the vast majority wouldn't want to go back to the old ways.

Has anywhere else launched a similar scheme in a small part of a deeply integrated free-trade area when the rest of that area was about to launch a quite different scheme?

[Just Alf]

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Why? It’s a devolved issue.


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Because its the fact that manufacturers/brewers are going to have to run two systems at.once that's causing them so much angst as it is greatly.increasing their costs.

Both sides.of the border changing at once takes the duplication element out of the equation.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Has anywhere else launched a similar scheme in a small part of a deeply integrated free-trade area when the rest of that area was about to launch a quite different scheme?

I've no idea, but the benefits hugely outweigh the minor problems, there's no better solution on offer but if you keep looking for problems then you'll find some. Pretty much like nearly every progressive policy. But maybe Scotland is just too wee, poor and stupid to enact change.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Because its the fact that manufacturers/brewers are going to have to run two systems at.once that's causing them so much angst as it is greatly.increasing their costs.

Both sides.of the border changing at once takes the duplication element out of the equation.

I doubt tapping a few changes into a computerised label printing machine is going to "greatly increase" manufacturing costs.

[Zambernardi1875]

good thread on some of the issues for small business

https://twitter.com/Brew_Theo/status/1618958464113610754?s=20&t=oBahk9cJqn9zXuI0tPjFwQ

[James310]

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I doubt tapping a few changes into a computerised label printing machine is going to "greatly increase" manufacturing costs.

Yet lots of companies seem to find it difficult, you should become a consultant where you go into these business who obviously don't know their own business and manufacturing process and tell them it's easy to just change some labels.

[Stairway 2 7]

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good thread on some of the issues for small business

https://twitter.com/Brew_Theo/status/1618958464113610754?s=20&t=oBahk9cJqn9zXuI0tPjFwQ

Interesting ta

[Zambernardi1875]

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I've no idea, but the benefits hugely outweigh the minor problems, there's no better solution on offer but if you keep looking for problems then you'll find some. Pretty much like nearly every progressive policy. But maybe Scotland is just too wee, poor and stupid to enact change.

im struggling to understand the point in the 20p, people already recycle at home, the cost of each RVM will be about 8-10k how many of these will be needed in scotland?

will people really keep a can in there bag to wait for a machine or just put it in normal recycling bin. you also didnt answer my question about wholesalers. if you listen to small business this has nothing to do with being too wee poor or stupid but rather cutting youre nose off to spite ones face.

the only major problem now will be the clamer to hold house parties

[Hibrandenburg]

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Yet lots of companies seem to find it difficult, you should become a consultant where you go into these business who obviously don't know their own business and manufacturing process and tell them it's easy to just change some labels.

Meeeow! Just giving you my opinion on how it works here but I suppose it doesn't support your everything the SNP does bad agenda.

[Hibrandenburg]

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im struggling to understand the point in the 20p, people already recycle at home, the cost of each RVM will be about 8-10k how many of these will be needed in scotland?

will people really keep a can in there bag to wait for a machine or just put it in normal recycling bin. you also didnt answer my question about wholesalers. if you listen to small business this has nothing to do with being too wee poor or stupid but rather cutting youre nose off to spite ones face.

the only major problem now will be the clamer to hold house parties

I'm simply sharing my opinion on recycling as someone who lives in a country that already has a similar system in place that works well. Why would Scotland again be an exception?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...land-doctrine/

Excellent interview today with Stewart Macdonald.


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[Zambernardi1875]

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I'm simply sharing my opinion on recycling as someone who lives in a country that already has a similar system in place that works well. Why would Scotland again be an exception?

was the system rolled out throughout the whole country or just a few separate states or regions first? im all for the system working but it has to be the right one to benefit scotland

[Ozyhibby]

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was the system rolled out throughout the whole country or just a few separate states or regions first? im all for the system working but it has to be the right one to benefit scotland

Some sort of phased roll out is probably the best way to go to begin with.


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[Zambernardi1875]

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Some sort of phased roll out is probably the best way to go to begin with.


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How would that be implemented

[Ozyhibby]

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How would that be implemented

Personally I have no clue but if I was charged with the task I would look at exactly what other successful roll outs had done and copy it.

This is a pretty simple issue. Do we want to recycle more? Yes I think would be the answer. What are other countries who already recycle more doing? Ok, let’s copy that. Will business complain? Absolutely.


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[Zambernardi1875]

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Personally I have no clue but if I was charged with the task I would look at exactly what other successful roll outs had done and copy it.

This is a pretty simple issue. Do we want to recycle more? Yes I think would be the answer. What are other countries who already recycle more doing? Ok, let’s copy that. Will business complain? Absolutely.


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How would that work?

Answer - I have no clue. 😂

Are you Lorna slater