Congestion charges and low emission zones

[Edina Street]

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

[James310]

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As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-t...to%20%C2%A3240.

The initial penalty charge is £60.
If the penalty is not paid within 28 days, the second time that vehicle enters the LEZ within 90 days, the penalty doubles to £120.
If the vehicle enters a third time within the same 90 days, it increases to £240.
The penalty will increase to £480 for a fourth time within the same 90 days.
It will not be increased for a fifth time the vehicle enters the LEZ.

[JeMeSouviens]

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As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

[Edina Street]

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Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

[JeMeSouviens]

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There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

[Bristolhibby]

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My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

[Edina Street]

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My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

[Edina Street]

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As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

So we now have zones in Bristol and Bath? That's good to know all the different locations these things are popping up. First thing I can look forward to doing when I get home from my journies is getting on my computer and paying for all those low emission charges I might have passed through. How much is the charge per day where you are at?

[JeMeSouviens]

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I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

[neil7908]

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I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

[Berwickhibby]

I am not financially in a position to buy a new van and there is no dispensation for businesses …I just will have to stop accepting events in Central Edinburgh come June next year.

[Gatecrasher]

I get your frustration but whether it deals with the climate issue or not the fact is there are too many vehicles on the road at the moment and the only way people will begin to leave the car/van at home is if it becomes too expensive to justify not taking public transport. I love driving and my car but every street is clogged with vehicles now and I really think it's got worse since the pandemic, which I feel was a wasted opportunity to reset some of the bad habits we had prior.

These LEZ's may be a money making opportunity but they are a policy with a good intention, anyway if you think that's bad just wait until you need to pay £500 just to park at your work.

[Ozyhibby]

I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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[Edina Street]

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You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

[Edina Street]

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I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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But it is not going to stop larger heavier vehicles from using the road. Removals companies are still going to be going in and out of the area. Goods are still going to get delivered to all the shops and supermarkets. People are still going to want their ebay items and antiques delivering to their doorsteps. The council knows this already, they have London to use as an example as all this has been in place in London for years now, and London is still a congested and polluted hellhole. The fact is, if you're a buisness you're just supposed to put the fees on to the customer. That is the very person that voted it in. This is why I am of the opinion that it is just a money making scheme.

[pollution]

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As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

[Edina Street]

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' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

That's also true actually. I am also from Edinburgh and I do not recall getting a vote on this matter.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

[Stairway 2 7]

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The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

It's a snp/labour policy backed by the greens, apposed by the tories

[neil7908]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

[Edina Street]

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Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?

P.S

Whilst I am from Edinburgh, and live in Edinburgh, my buisness is partly based in London, so apologies for using the term "we".

[Moulin Yarns]

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Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

[Edina Street]

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I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMG

[speedy_gonzales]

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One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?

Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

[Edina Street]

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Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

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Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

I'd doubt it. Is he doing it as regular now? If so it's no a good advert for the benefits of cycling, as he's still bigger than the beatles

[Just Alf]

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This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMG

That last bit about auto accounts is a really good one... surely they should be considering a single payment facility to cover all areas?..... or 2/3 if they need to.split it by council areas e.g COSLA councils under one umbrella.

[Gatecrasher]

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Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

[danhibees1875]

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Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.