The Trans Rights Debate

**archie** · 30-01-2023 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

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Whether I'm personally ok with it or not is irrelevant. Officers (regardless of their gender) will carry their jobs out accordingly. That's what they are trained to do.

So there's no space for women prison officers to have any concerns about the interaction with a male sex offenders? Do you really believe this?

***Moulin Yarns*** · 30-01-2023 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

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Former governor of gateshead says they did mix

https://mobile.twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1619973203396526083

Joanna Cherry KC
@joannaccherry
Let’s listen to former prison governor
@HotchkissRhona
speaking about life for vulnerable women accommodated with transgender prisoners in Scotland. This is lived experience not transphobia or any other phobia for that matter

The former governor of a prison in England explains something about a prison in Scotland?

https://transsafety.network/tags/rhona-hotchkiss/

And openly anti trans!!!! 🙄

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 30-01-2023 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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So there's no space for women prison officers to have any concerns about the interaction with a male sex offenders? Do you really believe this?

If they carry out their duties the way that they're trained to do so, then what's the concern? What do you think happens when a man gets arrested and there's only a female officer/officers at the scene? They still have to carry out all of the necessary searches just as a male officer would. Simply being female isn't some get out clause, they have to follow the necessary protocol, that's their job.

**archie** · 30-01-2023 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

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If they carry out their duties the way that they're trained to do so, then what's the concern? What do you think happens when a man gets arrested and there's only a female officer/officers at the scene? They still have to carry out all of the necessary searches just as a male officer would. Simply being female isn't some get out clause, they have to follow the necessary protocol, that's their job.

So just to be clear, a guy gets a power or sexual thrill from demanding that only women search him, and they just have to accept it because 'that's their job'. Even though they work on a women's prison?

**archie** · 30-01-2023 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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The former governor of a prison in England explains something about a prison in Scotland?

https://transsafety.network/tags/rhona-hotchkiss/

And openly anti trans!!!! 🙄

I know you couldn't resist the English comment, but she was the former governor of Cornton Vale.

***147lothian*** · 30-01-2023 09:03 PM

I don't think anyone could listen to Amanda Benson's account of what it is like for a female prisoner on what is know as a female estate which was meant to house 40 women prisoners but in reality had 38 women prisoners and 2 biological male prisoners, one of whom was there for murder, and the other who she describes as a very scary hulk of a man who was about 6'3 and in there for domestic violence and come to any other conclusion than this is completely wrong.

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 30-01-2023 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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So just to be clear, a guy gets a power or sexual thrill from demanding that only women search him, and they just have to accept it because 'that's their job'. Even though they work on a women's prison?

Ok then. What if the man demands a male officer searches him, only for him to get a sexual thrill from it because he's gay?

***Kato*** · 30-01-2023 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by 147lothian

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I don't think anyone could listen to Amanda Benson's account of what it is like for a female prisoner on what is know as a female estate which was meant to house 40 women prisoners but in reality had 38 women prisoners and 2 biological male prisoners, one of whom was there for murder, and the other who she describes as a very scary hulk of a man who was about 6'3 and in there for domestic violence and come to any other conclusion than this is completely wrong.

What's your solution, 147lothian?

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***147lothian*** · 30-01-2023 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kato

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What's your solution, 147lothian?

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My solution is quite simple, if your born male you go to a male prison, if your born female you go to a female prison.

Transwomen need to be housed in male prison's because they were born male.

However Transwomen have to be treated like a vulnerable group of men on a male prison, with there own wing, and segregated from the wider prison population.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 30-01-2023 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by archie

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I know you couldn't resist the English comment, but she was the former governor of Cornton Vale.

I saw gateshead mentioned!!

***Moulin Yarns*** · 30-01-2023 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by 147lothian

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I don't think anyone could listen to Amanda Benson's account of what it is like for a female prisoner on what is know as a female estate which was meant to house 40 women prisoners but in reality had 38 women prisoners and 2 biological male prisoners, one of whom was there for murder, and the other who she describes as a very scary hulk of a man who was about 6'3 and in there for domestic violence and come to any other conclusion than this is completely wrong.

Have you seen how many men she assaulted and injured, including police officers? I don't think she would be that scared considering her record. Not to mention she had the option of a fine instead of time!!

***CropleyWasGod*** · 30-01-2023 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by 147lothian

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My solution is quite simple, if your born male you go to a male prison, if your born female you go to a female prison.

Transwomen need to be housed in male prison's because they were born male.

However Transwomen have to be treated like a vulnerable group of men on a male prison, with there own wing, and segregated from the wider prison population.

How does your solution work for those who have fully transitioned?

***147lothian*** · 30-01-2023 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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How does your solution work for those who have fully transitioned?

And trans men?

My solution is still the same even for people who have fully transitioned. They still go to a male prison if they were born male or a female prison if they were born female, this is because biological sex is immutable a baby even before it is born has chromosomes that are either male or female and no amount of surgery changes this.

Again though I do believe that trans prisoners need to have their rights protected in prison and be housed in wings that are separate from the general prison population. I hate to be the barer of bad news but in reality no-one has ever been born in the wrong body and that is a fact.

**TrumpIsAPeado** · 30-01-2023 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by 147lothian

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I hate to be the barer of bad news but in reality no-one has ever been born in the wrong body and that is a fact.

They used to say the same thing about homosexuals. "They're not really homosexual, they're just choosing to be."

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but in reality, you're not in these people's bodies to know whether they're in the right or wrong body and that is a fact.

**archie** · 30-01-2023 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

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Ok then. What if the man demands a male officer searches him, only for him to get a sexual thrill from it because he's gay?

Do you think there might be any power dynamic at play here?

**archie** · 30-01-2023 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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I saw gateshead mentioned!!

Maybe so, but she is is a prominent ex Corton Vale governor.

**archie** · 30-01-2023 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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How does your solution work for those who have fully transitioned?

I think full transition does change the position and makes being in the female prison estate more tenable. But there does need to be access to the full range of services given the complex health issues at play. I'm less certain about trans men in the male prison estate, as I think they could be at considerable risk.

***Ozyhibby*** · 31-01-2023 12:17 AM

What do they do in England with transgender prisoners?

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***Kato*** · 31-01-2023 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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What do they do in England with transgender prisoners?

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You've worded that wrong given the tone on this thread recently.

Something like "Where does Sunak stick transgender prisoners?" ..no?

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**Crunchie** · 31-01-2023 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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Have you seen how many men she assaulted and injured, including police officers? I don't think she would be that scared considering her record. Not to mention she had the option of a fine instead of time!!

Have you seen Sturgeon's car crash interview on news at ten last night? What a mess.

***Hibrandenburg*** · 31-01-2023 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by archie

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Have you any idea how heartless that sounds? I know it's an attack line, but I can't accept that you really mean it

You don't do irony do you?

***Ozyhibby*** · 31-01-2023 06:59 AM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...00573.html?amp

Seems situation in England is pretty much the same as in Scotland.

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***Stairway 2 7*** · 31-01-2023 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...00573.html?amp

Seems situation in England is pretty much the same as in Scotland.

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Are Scotland making it women with male genitalia aren't going to be in female prisons too, big change.

I'd read only 2 % of trans women get rid of the male genitalia. That surprised me I thought it would be much higher, as most people would say that's the thing that most identifies a male.

***AgentDaleCooper*** · 31-01-2023 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...00573.html?amp

Seems situation in England is pretty much the same as in Scotland.

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Probably sturgeons fault too

***AgentDaleCooper*** · 31-01-2023 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Crunchie

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Have you seen Sturgeon's car crash interview on news at ten last night? What a mess.

Looked like your common gardener 'journo asks FM to appologise for something she doesn't need to appologise for' type interview to me.

**Crunchie** · 31-01-2023 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper

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Looked like your common gardener 'journo asks FM to appologise for something she doesn't need to appologise for' type interview to me.

The common gardener seemed to have her stuttering quite a bit, she didn't have a clue what to say.

***Stairway 2 7*** · 31-01-2023 07:49 AM

Nicola Sturgeon asked about Katie Dolatowski who sexualy assaulted a girl in toilets, yet is in a female prison

It seems its down to how much public pressure there is if someone gets moved
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelpf...41046495543296

**Crunchie** · 31-01-2023 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

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Nicola Sturgeon asked about Katie Dolatowski who sexualy assaulted a girl in toilets, yet is in a female prison

It seems its down to how much public pressure there is if someone gets moved
https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelpf...41046495543296

What we've done is set out clarity she says