The Trans Rights Debate

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

She has never 'demonised' trans people nor has she suggested bona fide trans people are a threat to women. If anything she's supportive of their right to live the life they want.

Do you think the book was constructive? Can you see how it might contribute to negativity towards trans people?

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do you think the book was constructive? Can you see how it might contribute to negativity towards trans people?

Have you read it. From what I can see he was a cis straight male. I've not read it so wouldn't defend that view

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thanks for responding. And does this knowledge make a difference to your views on the trans debate?

It does make a difference in that I don't recognise the people I know within the way the debate is being weighted, especially the last few weeks on here. I say that as someone who doesn't see much the debate on my twitter feed and has never had a Facebook page, so this, narrow but informed, thread is the main place I see it being discussed.

There are some fantastic, educational and empathetic discussions within this thread but the last weeks gives the impression of a few posters attempting to build a distorted word cloud.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Lester B]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It does make a difference in that I don't recognise the people I know within the way the debate is being weighted, especially the last few weeks on here. I say that as someone who doesn't see much the debate on my twitter feed and has never had a Facebook page, so this, narrow but informed, thread is the main place I see it being discussed.

There are some fantastic, educational and empathetic discussions within this thread but the last weeks gives the impression of a few posters attempting to build a distorted word cloud.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Can’t just let this one pass without a thank you for such an eloquent considered response

I hope I’m not one of those in that word cloud and apologies if I am

[hibby rae]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cn7AM...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can’t just let this one pass without a thank you for such an eloquent considered response

I hope I’m not one of those in that word cloud and apologies if I am

We would all be on a word cloud I guess, the frequency of words and assertions would, IMHO, look horrific.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cn7AM...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

She talking about Joanna Cherry? There's ********s and opportunistic people on both sides, but that shouldn't be used deliberately to distract from the real debate on women's and trans rights

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do you think the book was constructive? Can you see how it might contribute to negativity towards trans people?

Which book?

[hibby rae]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

She talking about Joanna Cherry? There's ********s and opportunistic people on both sides, but that shouldn't be used deliberately to distract from the real debate on women's and trans rights

No she's not. More likely some Tories and right wingers in the media.

The whole 40 min interview is a good listen

[Lester B]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

She talking about Joanna Cherry? There's ********s and opportunistic people on both sides, but that shouldn't be used deliberately to distract from the real debate on women's and trans rights

No she isn’t. Not remotely

[Lester B]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Which book?

Troubled Blood. Published in 2020

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Troubled Blood. Published in 2020

Haven't read it so can't comment. I'm not actually a fan of her fiction, hugely successful as it is - and she's due a lot of credit for keeping kids reading.

What's transphobic about this particular book?

[LewysGot2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

She talking about Joanna Cherry? There's ********s and opportunistic people on both sides, but that shouldn't be used deliberately to distract from the real debate on women's and trans rights

I don’t think she is talking about Cherry?

As I don’t think anyone can say Cherry isn’t a long term and vocal activist in the arena of women’s rights.

Suspect it’s others who are pro-life, anti-choice she’s alluding to?

You're right that there’s unhelpful activists at both extreme poles of the debate. Those where the debate is not shades of grey but monochromatic, unyielding and intolerant.

Anyhow, Hibs are at home and this will still be trundling on later….I’m away to torture myself at Easter Road again

[Lester B]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Haven't read it so can't comment. I'm not actually a fan of her fiction, hugely successful as it is - and she's due a lot of credit for keeping kids reading.

What's transphobic about this particular book?

See recent posts. Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Have you read it. From what I can see he was a cis straight male. I've not read it so wouldn't defend that view

i have not read it, and i know this might sound stupid, but IMO this is genuinely a case where one doesn't need to have read the book to comment on it, because the details of the book are not the thing that will make a cultural impact - hardly anyone will read it outside of her devotees, and the discourse on this issue has long been stripped of any nuance. it's the fact that she has written a book in which a murderous man puts on a dress and kills women. as i've said in my previous posts, there's only one way that's going to be interpreted by a lot of people, particularly when she has been arguing repeatedly that trans women are not women.

to reiterate, i don't think she is transphobic in her intentions, but i think she is at best naïve in terms of her actions and how she has contributed to the debate.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

i have not read it, and i know this might sound stupid, but IMO this is genuinely a case where one doesn't need to have read the book to comment on it, because the details of the book are not the thing that will make a cultural impact - hardly anyone will read it outside of her devotees, and the discourse on this issue has long been stripped of any nuance. it's the fact that she has written a book in which a murderous man puts on a dress and kills women. as i've said in my previous posts, there's only one way that's going to be interpreted by a lot of people, particularly when she has been arguing repeatedly that trans women are not women.

to reiterate, i don't think she is transphobic in her intentions, but i think she is at best naïve in terms of her actions and how she has contributed to the debate.

Women dressing as men and vice-versa is a device as old as it gets when it comes to books, films and television. Rowling is hardly breaking new ground here.

I don't think it's true to say you can pass judgement on any book or film without having read or watched it yourself.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Too many folk in our mediascape with loud voices trying to call the shots, citing depraved extremes to make a point about a life experience they haven't got a clue about, helping to stoke a stigma that shouldn't exist.

Under the noise, people are dealing with an existential crisis. They deserve better than this.

This is likely to kick things off again:

https://news.sky.com/story/fresh-tra...-jail-12797405

[Hibrandenburg]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m not so sure it does. I find a lot of the debate confusing.

It’s simple for me, I’ll respect and support the right of anybody to identify as they want. Why would any of us want another human being feel unable to live the life they feel they were meant to live? I think the majority of us feel the same, hence this well intended legislation which really does come from a good place. I think after the fuss has died down we will have this legislation or something very similar in force throughout the whole UK.

The extreme views on either side and the extremely rare situations we see highlighted to make a point ? That’s where I struggle.

Good post.

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/AshtenRegan/stat...85644345503746

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://twitter.com/AshtenRegan/stat...85644345503746

really can't see that happening, the government are bound to step in.

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/statu...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[archie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

really can't see that happening, the government are bound to step in.

Why? If trans women are women why should they?

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why? If trans women are women why should they?

Indeed. If a bloke putting on a wig is enough to see him referred to as 'she' during his rape trial (and even more absurdly have his genitalia referred to as 'her p***s') then what's the problem?

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why? If trans women are women why should they?

Because they are trans women with a sexually violent history towards cis women...not too complicated IMO.

[archie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because they are trans women with a sexually violent history towards cis women...not too complicated IMO.

But it really is complicated. There would be no question of putting a violent woman into a mens prison. Why would you put a trans woman into a mens prison?

[James310]

UN Special Rapporteur on Torture says common sense should prevail in Scotland. Imagine the UN saying that a few months ago, people would wonder what on earth was going on.

https://twitter.com/DrAliceJEdwards/...gEGPCyznw&s=19

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

UN Special Rapporteur on Torture says common sense should prevail in Scotland. Imagine the UN saying that a few months ago, people would wonder what on earth was going on.

https://twitter.com/DrAliceJEdwards/...gEGPCyznw&s=19

The UN did intervene re the SG bill a few months ago IIRC but Sturgeon dismissed their concerns. Or is that what you mean? I may be misreading your post.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because they are trans women with a sexually violent history towards cis women...not too complicated IMO.

This 'cis' terminology is another thing that bamboozles me. Why foist it on those whose gender is already covered by existing terminology. All it does is over-complicate things unnecessarily.

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The UN did intervene re the SG bill a few months ago IIRC but Sturgeon dismissed their concerns. Or is that what you mean? I may be misreading your post.

They did but it was ignored, but I think there was another UN specialist who was supportive. I think the fact the UN Special Rapporteur for Torture is weighing in is quite something. I mean imagine if a few months ago someone said the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture is advising the SG to show some common sense people would be going WTF is that about.

[AgentDaleCooper]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This 'cis' terminology is another thing that bamboozles me. Why foist it on those whose gender is already covered by existing terminology. All it does is over-complicate things unnecessarily.

it's only bamboozling if you aren't willing to acknowledge trans women as women.

'cis' literally just means the opposite of 'trans'. it's used in conversation where a distinction is needed.