The Trans Rights Debate

[James310]

https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/sta...4Iq_3ILQQ&s=19

[Glory Lurker]

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https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/sta...4Iq_3ILQQ&s=19

I'm not getting into this debate as I don't know anything about the issues but if it upsets her, I'm all in.

[Stairway 2 7]

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The most important part of that.


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Your back to where you were two days ago wanting quantifiable stats and dismissing people's feelings and wishes. There is no stats and never will be for a disabled person being unhappy with getting male bodied intimate care, a female rape victim having to have counselling or sharing a safe space with a biological male, young girls feeling sanctuary away from biological males in nightclub toilets, being away from male bodied people in a women's refuge.

Gra will change the birth certificate of trans women and with no way of checking if its been changed, they will be women

You already dissmised all these things, but they are real to who they concern but will never be in any statistic

[James310]

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I'm not getting into this debate as I don't know anything about the issues but if it upsets her, I'm all in.

She is getting "upset" about women's safety. You admit you know nothing about this but would be "all in" on something just because someone you dislike has concerns?

[Hibrandenburg]

A win for human equality and maybe a loss for women's rights. Still not sure what side of the fence I'm on.

[He's here!]

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The most important part of that.


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You're taking Kezia Dugdale seriously now?

[He's here!]

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Just out of interest, what would you count as 'relevant lived experience'?

That's become undefinable according to the Scottish government when it comes to living in an acquired gender. There will be no checks, medical or otherwise, you just have to claim you've done so to obtain a GRC. That's how easy it will be for a man to become a woman now or vice-versa. A man who says he's a woman will literally be one.

[Glory Lurker]

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She is getting "upset" about women's safety. You admit you know nothing about this but would be "all in" on something just because someone you dislike has concerns?

No, I am still keeping outside it. But she is an absolute horror. The chances are that whatever makes her angry is the right way to go. Perhaps her fury tells me which way to go?

Edit: does she care about immigrant women's safety? Gies peace, man. Make your case without quoting her and I'm gone!

[He's here!]

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He's definitely the unionist's go to blogger these days. Changed days indeed.

There were few more scathing of Westminster back in the day...but now encouraging the UK government to strike down the legislation:

Wings Over Scotland | On the hush-hush

[WhileTheChief..]

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Depends how many women and trans gender are members of .net, seems a strange question to ask when there's little way of finding out.

You've lost me. In what way is it a strange thing to ask?

Anyone posting is free to say what gender they are. I think it would be good to hear how female Hibs fans feel about the subject instead of just men.

Don't you? Don't you think it would add to the discussion?

[Glory Lurker]

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There were few more scathing of Westminster back in the day...but now encouraging the UK government to strike down the legislation:

Wings Over Scotland | On the hush-hush

Oh no. That guy who is absolutely shunned by the mainstream independence movement has said something. I'm off to buy union jack pants tomorrow.

[J-C]

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You've lost me. In what way is it a strange thing to ask?

Anyone posting is free to say what gender they are. I think it would be good to hear how female Hibs fans feel about the subject instead of just men.

Don't you? Don't you think it would add to the discussion?

Almost the majority on here are registered under a pseudonym/fake name, we have zero information about them unless they post personal details about themselves. It makes it virtually impossible to know who are women and who may be trans, unless as you say the tell us.

[Stairway 2 7]

Kemi is a vile woman, but joanna cherry and Michelle Thomson are as polar opposite politically as you can get. The people on both sides using this as a political issue or backing their parties side due to just politicals, are pathetic in my opinion

[degenerated]

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Kemi is a vile woman, but joanna cherry and Michelle Thomson are as polar opposite politically as you can get. The people on both sides using this as a political issue or backing their parties side due to just politicals, are pathetic in my opinion

If you think that Michelle Thomson and Joanna Cherry are as politically opposite as you can get you may need to widen your view of the political spectrum.

[Stairway 2 7]

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If you think that Michelle Thomson and Joanna Cherry are as politically opposite as you can get you may need to widen your view of the political spectrum.

Lol from kemi

[Stairway 2 7]

Reem Alsalem, UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women and Girls

I regret the adoption of the #GenderRecognitionReformBill by
@ScotParl
as is. While some important amendments were introduced, other key ones were disregarded; they would have been key to bringing about the strengthened safeguards many are demanding

We know that #humanrights are indivisible, interrelated and interdependent. #scotland had the opportunity to set an example on how to address and resolve the tension between rights and manage risks in an effective manner. Yesterday the
@ScotParl
decided to bypass that opportunity

[WhileTheChief..]

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Almost the majority on here are registered under a pseudonym/fake name, we have zero information about them unless they post personal details about themselves. It makes it virtually impossible to know who are women and who may be trans, unless as you say the tell us.

You’ve misunderstood the point completely.

I wasn’t asking posters to ‘out’ females on here ffs, I was simply asking the posters themselves if they are female.

I find it interesting that it’s only guys discussing an issue that in most cases it won’t effect at all.

[degenerated]

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Lol from kemi

aye, that makes more sense

[Stairway 2 7]

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aye, that makes more sense

Reading it back and I made it as confusing as could be ha. But I'll use this post to further reiterate kemi is a ****

[danhibees1875]

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You’ve misunderstood the point completely.

I wasn’t asking posters to ‘out’ females on here ffs, I was simply asking the posters themselves if they are female.

I find it interesting that it’s only guys discussing an issue that in most cases it won’t effect at all.

Anyone can have empathy though and put themselves into others shoes to guage their thoughts - for most, that's mothers, wives/girlfriends, sisters, daughters, cousins, nieces, etc.

Your general point is true that it's interesting to hear also from women on the subject, probably easier done away from .net though. As broad a church as .net can be when it comes to opinions and ideals it's fair to say that demographically we're a bit more homogenous.

[He's here!]

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If you think that Michelle Thomson and Joanna Cherry are as politically opposite as you can get you may need to widen your view of the political spectrum.

Does he not mean they're politically opposed to Badenoch rather than each other?

This is an issue which transcends politics, as can be seen by the unprecedented number of SNP MSPs who defied the whip. They voted, as Ash Regan put it, with their conscience. The UK government's concerns, meanwhile, appear to relate to potential conflicts with UK equalities legislation so more of an administrative headache than a political one.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Anyone can have empathy though and put themselves into others shoes to guage their thoughts - for most, that's mothers, wives/girlfriends, sisters, daughters, cousins, nieces, etc.

Your general point is true that it's interesting to hear also from women on the subject, probably easier done away from .net though. As broad a church as .net can be when it comes to opinions and ideals it's fair to say that demographically we're a bit more homogenous.

Maybe something for us all to think about? Any Hibs fan should feel entirely comfortable posting their thoughts on here.

[danhibees1875]

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Maybe something for us all to think about? Any Hibs fan should feel entirely comfortable posting their thoughts on here.

They should, and I'd like to think that they would/do.

I'm not sure that it would be down to a created atmosphere that stops more women posting on here, it feels about as safe a space as anywhere on the internet.

[James310]

Round 2 coming up soon?

https://twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/...jReBi-woA&s=19

Can anyone explain gender recognition for non binary people?

Is this really the hill the SNP/Greens want to fight the battles on? I know JK Rowling said this was Nicola Sturgeons poll tax moment and I think that was a bit over dramatic but there is definitely a sense of is this really the fight the SNP want to pursue.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Round 2 coming up soon?

https://twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/...jReBi-woA&s=19

Can anyone explain gender recognition for non binary people?

Is this really the hill the SNP/Greens want to fight the battles on? I know JK Rowling said this was Nicola Sturgeons poll tax moment and I think that was a bit over dramatic but there is definitely a sense of is this really the fight the SNP want to pursue.

In broad terms, it recognises a 3rd gender. It's been adopted in a number of countries,and is part of many cultures. Some cultures recognise 4 genders.

[danhibees1875]

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In broad terms, it recognises a 3rd gender. It's been adopted in a number of countries,and is part of many cultures. Some cultures recognise 4 genders.

Excuse any ignorance in this question... it looks like it recognises a 3rd sex (As opposed to gender, where there's a wider recognition of more than two) - or is there more to it?

[archie]

I was reading some legal chatter on the legislation and the impact on trans men. There was speculation around a case where a trans man became pregnant. There are protections in the equality act for pregnant women. But if someone is for all purposes a man, then how would these apply? This wasn't a knocking discussion. It was trying to work through the potential anomalies that the Scottish legislation throws up. I suspect UKG will be trying to find as many of these absurdities as possible as grounds for intervention.

[James310]

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In broad terms, it recognises a 3rd gender. It's been adopted in a number of countries,and is part of many cultures. Some cultures recognise 4 genders.

Thanks, what's the third gender called? What would appear on someone's birth certificate I wonder?

[Stairway 2 7]

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I was reading some legal chatter on the legislation and the impact on trans men. There was speculation around a case where a trans man became pregnant. There are protections in the equality act for pregnant women. But if someone is for all purposes a man, then how would these apply? This wasn't a knocking discussion. It was trying to work through the potential anomalies that the Scottish legislation throws up. I suspect UKG will be trying to find as many of these absurdities as possible as grounds for intervention.

2 weeks paternity in some cases, if they are literally a man now? Lots to iron out.

I read that trans women can take seats set aside for women in company boards now and it's utterly disgusting. Although each company can decide after a backlash. Life is tough for women as it is without losing out more of what they thought decades for

[James310]

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I was reading some legal chatter on the legislation and the impact on trans men. There was speculation around a case where a trans man became pregnant. There are protections in the equality act for pregnant women. But if someone is for all purposes a man, then how would these apply? This wasn't a knocking discussion. It was trying to work through the potential anomalies that the Scottish legislation throws up. I suspect UKG will be trying to find as many of these absurdities as possible as grounds for intervention.

https://twitter.com/Scott_Wortley/st...t4kCMGZ0w&s=19

This is from a Law Lecturer. The legislation is full of holes basically.

"The amendment by this bill completely changes the basis of the operation of the 2004 Act - the basis upon which the 2010 Act was prepared.
It is at best naive, at worst mendacious, to pretend the bill has no impact on the 2010 Act"

I genuinely don't think Nicola Sturgeon has done this for a fight with the UK Government, it's obviously something she is very passionate about, but crap legislation is crap legislation and it will need sorted.