SNP are lying b******s as well !

[grunt]

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The obvious answer to your question for those not obsessed with independence is that the SG should get on with the day job.

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I'm referring to those obsessed with winning independence, seemingly above all else.

You'd be a bit weird if you were obsessed with NOT winning independence, wouldn't you?

[He's here!]

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One day strikes here and there are not going to have as much impact as bringing the teachers out for an undefined period. They have a day today and 2 days in January organised. That's a loss of 3 days earnings for teachers and potentially parents/carers. Better to announce a full week to begin with. They wouldn't take much more of a hit in terms of loss of income and imo that'll get them a quicker resolution from the SG. Economically no Gov wants unplanned school closures for a week, but could handle a day here and there.

I've been in a trade union all my working days, but am now off the opinion the country would be better served with one public sector union with branches representing each sector. No public sector worker should be viewed as more important than any other, yet we now look like approaching a situation where there are differing pay settlements being awarded depending on what sector people work in. We need them all, they all link in and would fail without each other.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63734668

Further strikes in December haven't been ruled out. A couple of my colleagues weren't planning to demonstrate today as they have kids at home but said Tuesday's meagre pay offer actually spurred them into simply taking the kids with them to the (very colourful - see link) rally outside Holyrood. It's going to take a hefty increase in the offer to stop strikes escalating.

[wookie70]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63734668

Further strikes in December haven't been ruled out. A couple of my colleagues weren't planning to demonstrate today as they have kids at home but said Tuesday's meagre pay offer actually spurred them into simply taking the kids with them to the (very colourful - see link) rally outside Holyrood. It's going to take a hefty increase in the offer to stop strikes escalating.

My kids attended picket lines and loved it. I suppose it was my version of taking them to church. I got two lovely letters from our Branch Committee which are tucked away in their memory box and are right at the top of what I treasure in those boxes. You can keep your first tooth or image of your first step. First picket line trumps those.

I think the STUC are planning a pre budget day rally outside Holyrood which should be well attended by all Unions

[wookie70]

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One day strikes here and there are not going to have as much impact as bringing the teachers out for an undefined period. They have a day today and 2 days in January organised. That's a loss of 3 days earnings for teachers and potentially parents/carers. Better to announce a full week to begin with. They wouldn't take much more of a hit in terms of loss of income and imo that'll get them a quicker resolution from the SG. Economically no Gov wants unplanned school closures for a week, but could handle a day here and there.

I've been in a trade union all my working days, but am now off the opinion the country would be better served with one public sector union with branches representing each sector. No public sector worker should be viewed as more important than any other, yet we now look like approaching a situation where there are differing pay settlements being awarded depending on what sector people work in. We need them all, they all link in and would fail without each other.

I totally agree with that. One day strikes achieve nothing save giving a sense of togetherness and perhaps a launch of a campaign. Teachers would be far better splitting a one day strike over a week. Walk out for an hour and a half each day or similar. My Union, PCS, are going for targeted and sustained so strikers can be paid, initially, from a strike fund and then a levy from those not striking. Those areas out will be the most damaging to the Government for the money used to pay strikers. It is a tactic I have advocated for over a decade and I am glad we have went that route but there are still some that seem to think a one day strike will make a difference.

Personally I would get every Union member in the TUC to start moving money and services to designated providers. Cause absolute chaos in the financial market and then a month later get them to all change to another provider. Make sure the big energy companies ad banks know what is coming so they lobby government effectively on workers behalf. Unions have to be much more open to the use of online ways of changing minds and I would be looking at spending $8 and screwing with any big business you could with a tweet dressed up as from a big company and then an instruction to Union members worldwide to retweet. Chaos and disruption can be incredibly cheap these days and easier to organise than strikes under the horrendous ant worker Trade Union laws

I have always thought public servants who are employed not elected should all be viewed the same in terms of pay. A rate for the job should be agreed and then changed with inflation. If the Government isn't a decent employer then why should anyone else be. As it turns out the recent Tory Governments have been some of the worst employers in the market place, stealing pensions, quite literally stealing pension payments, slashing compensation payments, closing offices, employing massive amounts of agency staff and paying 4 or 5 % this year less than private sector employer in Pay awards. That isn't even to mention a number of unlawful acts that the courts and Unions have made them reverse on and some of which they simply changed the law to bring in.

[He's here!]

Teachers in Scotland to strike for 16 consecutive days in January:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63759720

Surely Sturgeon will have to start turning her attention to the day job??

[Ozyhibby]

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Teachers in Scotland to strike for 16 consecutive days in January:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63759720

Surely Sturgeon will have to start turning her attention to the day job??

Even part time she manages to run the best services in the UK.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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Teachers in Scotland to strike for 16 consecutive days in January:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63759720

Surely Sturgeon will have to start turning her attention to the day job??

Not an all out strike over all of Scotland for 16 days at the same time!


Very misleading.

[J-C]

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Teachers in Scotland to strike for 16 consecutive days in January:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63759720

Surely Sturgeon will have to start turning her attention to the day job??

And do you actually believe everything in government gets laid to one side while they discuss independence, how very naive of you.

[Keith_M]

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Teachers in Scotland to strike for 16 consecutive days in January:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63759720

Surely Sturgeon will have to start turning her attention to the day job??

Amazing. When she's not revealing her plans for a referendum, she's widely referred to as a fraud, when she does, she gets the 'concentrate on the day job' cliché.

Seriously, you need to make up your mind what you actually want.

[marinello59]

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Even part time she manages to run the best services in the UK.


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Or the least worst.

[He's here!]

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I totally agree with that. One day strikes achieve nothing save giving a sense of togetherness and perhaps a launch of a campaign. Teachers would be far better splitting a one day strike over a week. Walk out for an hour and a half each day or similar. My Union, PCS, are going for targeted and sustained so strikers can be paid, initially, from a strike fund and then a levy from those not striking. Those areas out will be the most damaging to the Government for the money used to pay strikers. It is a tactic I have advocated for over a decade and I am glad we have went that route but there are still some that seem to think a one day strike will make a difference.

Personally I would get every Union member in the TUC to start moving money and services to designated providers. Cause absolute chaos in the financial market and then a month later get them to all change to another provider. Make sure the big energy companies ad banks know what is coming so they lobby government effectively on workers behalf. Unions have to be much more open to the use of online ways of changing minds and I would be looking at spending $8 and screwing with any big business you could with a tweet dressed up as from a big company and then an instruction to Union members worldwide to retweet. Chaos and disruption can be incredibly cheap these days and easier to organise than strikes under the horrendous ant worker Trade Union laws

I have always thought public servants who are employed not elected should all be viewed the same in terms of pay. A rate for the job should be agreed and then changed with inflation. If the Government isn't a decent employer then why should anyone else be. As it turns out the recent Tory Governments have been some of the worst employers in the market place, stealing pensions, quite literally stealing pension payments, slashing compensation payments, closing offices, employing massive amounts of agency staff and paying 4 or 5 % this year less than private sector employer in Pay awards. That isn't even to mention a number of unlawful acts that the courts and Unions have made them reverse on and some of which they simply changed the law to bring in.

The latest strike action announced is quite similar to what you suggest with 16 days shared between councils. An effective way of maintaining disruption and keeping things in the public eye while not keeping kids out of the classroom for too long.

[Ozyhibby]

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Or the least worst.

All you can do within the UK.


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[LewysGot2]

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The latest strike action announced is quite similar to what you suggest with 16 days shared between councils. An effective way of maintaining disruption and keeping things in the public eye while not keeping kids out of the classroom for too long.

Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

[He's here!]

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Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.

[He's here!]

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And do you actually believe everything in government gets laid to one side while they discuss independence, how very naive of you.

Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.

[Just Alf]

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Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.

Often i don't 'quite' agree with a lot you say ( ) but in this post I 100% agree, totally undervalued.

[He's here!]

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Or the least worst.

That's probably a more accurate way of putting it. I can only speak for primary education but in my view Scottish education is heading for a cliff edge. A lot was made earlier this year of the fact the Sturgeon's flagship pledge to close the attainment gap by 2026 has been abandoned, but in my experience the strategy was ill-conceived in the first place, with homework for kids in more affluent areas scaled back or scrapped in order to slow their progress. The curriculum for (so-called) excellence includes the rollout of play-based learning across early years which I am a fan of at P1 level as it eases the transition from nursery, but we're now seeing it extended to P2 and even P3, with the result that increasing numbers of kids are reaching that stage of their education still unable to read or write - the knock-on effect being that teachers further up the school are having to play catch-up when it comes to ensuring kids have a proper grasp of basic literacy and numeracy. It's a source of much frustration.

This former Tynecastle High head of history gave a good overview of the problems:

NEIL MACKAY'S BIG READ: 'SNP nationalism is destroying education' - the devastating assessment of Sturgeon and schools by leading Scottish educationalist | HeraldScotland

[He's here!]

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Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty.It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Yes, meant to say in my earlier post that's broadly correct.

[ronaldo7]

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Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.

Are you a primary school teacher?

[Stairway 2 7]

The what can she do whilst a part of the uk is utter cringe cult like stuff. The block budget amount hasn't changed in real terms in 10 years, Income tax also makes up the vast majority of tax generation.

Is she says we can't do anything with the budget that's there, move over and let someone in who can. Cheerleaders who will literally not criticise any decision are not subjective and best ignored imo. People treat political parties like football teams nowadays. I vote snp but all parties must be brought to task

[The Tubs]

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That's probably a more accurate way of putting it. I can only speak for primary education but in my view Scottish education is heading for a cliff edge. A lot was made earlier this year of the fact the Sturgeon's flagship pledge to close the attainment gap by 2026 has been abandoned, but in my experience the strategy was ill-conceived in the first place, with homework for kids in more affluent areas scaled back or scrapped in order to slow their progress. The curriculum for (so-called) excellence includes the rollout of play-based learning across early years which I am a fan of at P1 level as it eases the transition from nursery, but we're now seeing it extended to P2 and even P3, with the result that increasing numbers of kids are reaching that stage of their education still unable to read or write - the knock-on effect being that teachers further up the school are having to play catch-up when it comes to ensuring kids have a proper grasp of basic literacy and numeracy. It's a source of much frustration.

This former Tynecastle High head of history gave a good overview of the problems:

NEIL MACKAY'S BIG READ: 'SNP nationalism is destroying education' - the devastating assessment of Sturgeon and schools by leading Scottish educationalist | HeraldScotland

At which ages do top-ranked PISA nations start teaching literacy?

[Ozyhibby]

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Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Wouldn’t someone on a teachers salary pay less tax in Scotland?


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[Ozyhibby]

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The what can she do whilst a part of the uk is utter cringe cult like stuff. The block budget amount hasn't changed in real terms in 10 years, Income tax also makes up the vast majority of tax generation.

Is she says we can't do anything with the budget that's there, move over and let someone in who can. Cheerleaders who will literally not criticise any decision are not subjective and best ignored imo. People treat political parties like football teams nowadays. I vote snp but all parties must be brought to task

Should we vote for the Tories performing worse in England or Labour performing worse in Wales?


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Should we vote for the Tories performing worse in England or Labour performing worse in Wales?


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Is that the two options vote another party or be cultish. I said I vote snp I have for years now and will continue.

[Ozyhibby]

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Is that the two options vote another party or be cultish. I said I vote snp I have for years now and will continue.

That is indeed the only alternatives we have. I personally think education could be run much better but I’m not seeing any other party offering a better proposal? Has Sarwar even talked about his plans for education? What are Ross’s proposals what the curriculum?
Opposition tactics in Scotland seem to be to run around saying the SNP are failing everywhere but not actually show people how they would do it better? Why aren’t they saying look how we are doing this in Wales, we could do that in Scotland as well? Or look at how amazing services are in England, Scotland is missing out? They can’t do that though because they are under performing even the so called ‘failing’ SNP.
The simple fact is, in Scotland if you want your services run well, your best bet is the SNP. That’s a fact.


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[LewysGot2]

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Wouldn’t someone on a teachers salary pay less tax in Scotland?


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People up here pay more tax after they earn about the rate of pay for a newly qualified teacher - so teachers will pay more tax here? And with 85% of them at or near the top of their main scale, that difference will be bigger

[LewysGot2]

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That is indeed the only alternatives we have. I personally think education could be run much better but I’m not seeing any other party offering a better proposal? Has Sarwar even talked about his plans for education? What are Ross’s proposals what the curriculum?
Opposition tactics in Scotland seem to be to run around saying the SNP are failing everywhere but not actually show people how they would do it better? Why aren’t they saying look how we are doing this in Wales, we could do that in Scotland as well? Or look at how amazing services are in England, Scotland is missing out? They can’t do that though because they are under performing even the so called ‘failing’ SNP.
The simple fact is, in Scotland if you want your services run well, your best bet is the SNP. That’s a fact.


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What's your plans for improving it? Maybe a different thread I the making but it's interesting when folk say that they have ideas to improve it. Are you an educationalist like He's Here? Genuinely interested in hearing folks take on what can be better and evidence based backing to suggest why. In reality my experience is I once went to school. That doesn't make me feel confident to advise how things could be better. School now is a million miles from the olden days when I went to school and teachers have to be social workers, in loco parentis in so many ways. I've no doubt much more is expected of them these days than ever before.

Maybe we should start a new thread to find out what should or could change and why

[J-C]

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Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.

What absolute nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

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What's your plans for improving it? Maybe a different thread I the making but it's interesting when folk say that they have ideas to improve it. Are you an educationalist like He's Here? Genuinely interested in hearing folks take on what can be better and evidence based backing to suggest why. In reality my experience is I once went to school. That doesn't make me feel confident to advise how things could be better. School now is a million miles from the olden days when I went to school and teachers have to be social workers, in loco parentis in so many ways. I've no doubt much more is expected of them these days than ever before.

Maybe we should start a new thread to find out what should or could change and why

I’m def not an educationalist. I have ideas but they are likely full of holes.


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[Kato]

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Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.

Is this a cut and paste from the Daily Express?

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