SNP are lying b******s as well !

[grunt]

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It's not very simplistic. We've got nearly the lowest tax rates in Western Europe. If we raised them we'd raise more money, that's so simplistic its not worth saying. We can use that money as we wish

[Hibrandenburg]

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Come on that's will account for a miniscule difference

Not here in Germany it doesn't. We've got 3 City States, Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg where many people go to work but live and pay their taxes in the state's that surround them. These state's are riddled with social problems.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Aye that's the attitude, just stick to how can we improve q y or z when we can't raise our own money line

[Stairway 2 7]

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Not here in Germany it doesn't. We've got 3 City States, Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg where many people go to work but live and pay their taxes in the state's that surround them. These state's are riddled with social problems.

The number of people that work in Scotland but pay taxes will be tiny, if not at least of set by the people who do the opposite with England and particularly London

[Ozyhibby]

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It's not very simplistic. We've got nearly the lowest tax rates in Western Europe. If we raised them we'd raise more money, that's so simplistic its not worth saying. We can use that money as we wish

That’s just one tax though.
Denmarks income tax has a local element to it instead of the council tax we pay. If we go up to their level and still have to pay council tax on top then I’m struggling to see how it’s the same?
Only being able to control one tax is a shocking way to run a society. We don’t even have full control of income tax. We can’t raise income tax on dividends or property income. Only earned income.


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[grunt]

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Aye that's the attitude, just stick to how can we improve q y or z when we can't raise our own money line

Why do you constantly misrepresent me? Did I ever say these words? No.

[Stairway 2 7]

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That’s just one tax though.
Denmarks income tax has a local element to it instead of the council tax we pay. If we go up to their level and still have to pay council tax on top then I’m struggling to see how it’s the same?
Only being able to control one tax is a shocking way to run a society. We don’t even have full control of income tax. We can’t raise income tax on dividends or property income. Only earned income.


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What you guys have to realise is yous are arguing that raising income tax won't raise funds, which is clearly pretty mental. If this is so , then why have a 1% higher rate than England if it doesn't help raise funds. Why not lower it last month?

[Ozyhibby]

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What you guys have to realise is yous are arguing that raising income tax won't raise funds, which is clearly pretty mental. If this is so , then why have a 1% higher rate than England if it doesn't help raise funds. Why not lower it last month?

No, I think they will raise income tax next time but not by much. What I’m arguing is that it can’t raise enough and can’t be the whole solution. Also, there is a point where it actually raises less.
Ireland tax companies lightly and yet raise more corporation tax than we can dream of. They are running a govt surplus just now.
You are saying raise income tax to fix the NHS and pay more wages to striking workers. I can’t see how raising that one tax could do all that.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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No, I think they will raise income tax next time but not by much. What I’m arguing is that it can’t raise enough and can’t be the whole solution. Also, there is a point where it actually raises less.
Ireland tax companies lightly and yet raise more corporation tax than we can dream of. They are running a govt surplus just now.
You are saying raise income tax to fix the NHS and pay more wages to striking workers. I can’t see how raising that one tax could do all that.


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No your saying I'm saying that. I've repeatedly said it's only one solution, we don't have the other options at our disposal. It won't solve everything but it's a big part of the solution. We have one of the lowest income tax highest rates in w Europe, that's shocking.

As for Ireland I guess you would have been happy with Truss trying to lower corporation tax. I disagree with having a race to the bottom on corporation tax ,allowing billionaires to become richer by paying pitiful tax

[Ozyhibby]

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No your saying I'm saying that. I've repeatedly said it's only one solution, we don't have the other options at our disposal. It won't solve everything but it's a big part of the solution. We have one of the lowest income tax highest rates in w Europe, that's shocking.

As for Ireland I guess you would have been happy with Truss trying to lower corporation tax. I disagree with having a race to the bottom on corporation tax ,allowing billionaires to become richer by paying pitiful tax

Yes, but I’ve pointed out that a large part of Denmark’s income tax is actually a local income tax. For us to match it we would have to do away with council tax. That might not be a bad idea but comparing our income tax rate with denmarks is difficult when theirs includes local income tax as well.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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What you guys have to realise is yous are arguing that raising income tax won't raise funds, which is clearly pretty mental. If this is so , then why have a 1% higher rate than England if it doesn't help raise funds. Why not lower it last month?

How many times have you been told, in Scotland income tax rates can only be set at the beginning of the financial year.

[Stairway 2 7]

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How many times have you been told, in Scotland income tax rates can only be set at the beginning of the financial year.

What's that got to do with anything. Why weren't they. It was clear last winter we'd have unbelievable inflation this year. Instead we didn't raise, nurses are striking and were bringing in eye watering austerity

[Stairway 2 7]

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Yes, but I’ve pointed out that a large part of Denmark’s income tax is actually a local income tax. For us to match it we would have to do away with council tax. That might not be a bad idea but comparing our income tax rate with denmarks is difficult when theirs includes local income tax as well.


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Our council tax doesn't nearly make up the difference. Uk is a low tax nation and it shows in our gdp

[Moulin Yarns]

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What's that got to do with anything. Why weren't they. It was clear last winter we'd have unbelievable inflation this year. Instead we didn't raise, nurses are striking and were bringing in eye watering austerity

Can you imagine what the outcry would have been like in April, before rampant inflation had happened?!

[Stairway 2 7]

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Can you imagine what the outcry would have been like in April, before rampant inflation had happened?!

By April only a complete clown wouldn't think we were on the path we were. Inflation had went almost vertical to 9% from 6% in February. All the estimates had it hitting over 10% in June July and staying, which it did.

The last time someone said yeah we could only put up tax in April, so nurses rises to match inflation was a shock. I put up articles from the ft and from the economist from the end of last year, saying we were going to get massive inflation in 22 and that was post Ukraine

[ronaldo7]

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What's that got to do with anything. Why weren't they. It was clear last winter we'd have unbelievable inflation this year. Instead we didn't raise, nurses are striking and were bringing in eye watering austerity

You seem to have a crystal ball regarding our finances. If only the Bank of England had the same crystal ball.

Who are the people that predicted 10% inflation nearly two years ago?

[Stairway 2 7]

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You seem to have a crystal ball regarding our finances. If only the Bank of England had the same crystal ball.

Who are the people that predicted 10% inflation nearly two years ago?

What crystal ball was needed inflation was already 9% in April when we could raise it, the disaster had happened already.

But still
June 2021
https://www.google.com/amp/s/au.finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/time-bomb-global-economy-013150691.html

May 21
https://archive.ph/eRfts

[Skol]

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Yes really. Income Tax is just one tool in the fiscal toolbox. We need access to all the levers of government.

Why does snp policy propose to leave a lever behind ?

[Ozyhibby]

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Why does snp policy propose to leave a lever behind ?

Which lever?


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[JeMeSouviens]

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Come on that's will account for a miniscule difference

It does now, but if you put the Scottish income tax up 10% higher than rUK then you are at least making higher rate taxpayers consider cross border working. Especially now so many of us can wfh all or part of the time.

Also - does Denmark have anything like National Insurance? It muddies the waters in any comparison.

[Stairway 2 7]

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It does now, but if you put the Scottish income tax up 10% higher than rUK then you are at least making higher rate taxpayers consider cross border working. Especially now so many of us can wfh all or part of the time.

Also - does Denmark have anything like National Insurance? It muddies the waters in any comparison.

It's not just Denmark, IMF believe uk is too much of a low tax nation and its hindering growth. Every eu14 nation gets more of its gdb from tax.

It obviously doesn't have to be a 10% rise, but the people moving away to pay less tax is a tory defence. Norway is low tax due to its massive wealth fund, but people aren't moving from the rest of Scandinavia which has much higher tax.

The tories are planning on raising £30 billion in the next budget from raising the highest tax rate apparently. Absolute straw clutching for people to say Scotland couldn’t and shouldn't raise funds from taxing the rich

[JeMeSouviens]

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It's not just Denmark, IMF believe uk is too much of a low tax nation and its hindering growth. Every eu14 nation gets more of its gdb from tax.

It obviously doesn't have to be a 10% rise, but the people moving away to pay less tax is a tory defence. Norway is low tax due to its massive wealth fund, but people aren't moving from the rest of Scandinavia which has much higher tax.

The tories are planning on raising £30 billion in the next budget from raising the highest tax rate apparently. Absolute straw clutching for people to say Scotland couldn’t and shouldn't raise funds from taxing the rich

You're missing the point I was making. Norway/Denmark/whoever can control that people who earn money there pay tax there, we can't.

And if you want to tax the rich, you should be taxing unearned income (ie. from investment, shares etc) - we can't - and wealth - again we can't.

The SG is already taxing the better off a bit more by slightly higher rates and diverging tax bands. I agree they could and should go further but I think gradually is the right way to do it rather than a big step.

I also think it's way, way, way beyond the time when we should have replaced council tax with a local income tax and a properly locally set local income tax at that.

[Stairway 2 7]

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You're missing the point I was making. Norway/Denmark/whoever can control that people who earn money there pay tax there, we can't.

And if you want to tax the rich, you should be taxing unearned income (ie. from investment, shares etc) - we can't - and wealth - again we can't.

The SG is already taxing the better off a bit more by slightly higher rates and diverging tax bands. I agree they could and should go further but I think gradually is the right way to do it rather than a big step.

I also think it's way, way, way beyond the time when we should have replaced council tax with a local income tax and a properly locally set local income tax at that.

For your first point I'd say more people from Scotland make money from down south than the reverse. You say but yes in the future it could be different, I agree but not that relevant to now.

I've already said income tax I just one tool and a pretty major one. I wish we had more but we don't so use what you can. No one is moving down south due to more tax, everyone on here was arguing that point a month ago.

The tories are planning to raise £30 billion from income tax raises from the highest band.

Scot gov said we brought in just under £500 more last year than we would have if we had England's tax bands. Pretending we can't raise a huge amount of money by raising income tax is a cop out.

[ronaldo7]

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What crystal ball was needed inflation was already 9% in April when we could raise it, the disaster had happened already.

But still
June 2021
https://www.google.com/amp/s/au.fina...013150691.html

May 21
https://archive.ph/eRfts

Thanks for that.

I accept that you're saying income tax is only one of the levers to raise cash to then be used by the government to help its citizens. We had a committee sitting in holyrood the other day make recommendations about borrowing powers for the Scottish Government, where 4 unionist MSPs, two Labour, and two Tory decided that we didn't need them. The same MSPs will be in parliament asking the SG to raise benefits and wages for people in Scotland. Neither wonder we see them as two cheeks.

A HOLYROOD committee report has urged the UK Government to hand “significant” borrowing powers to Holyrood to help tackle the cost-of-living crisis – but Tory and Labour MSPs failed to back the recommendation.

A pre-budget report published by Holyrood’s social justice and social security committee highlighted how it has heard evidence rising costs are creating a “social emergency”, including seeing “increasingly seeing hungry children”.

The committee has called on the Scottish Government to take action such as increasing benefits in line with inflation, saying social security has a “vital role” in supporting those with low incomes.

However the report also cautions that reprioritising spending will “only go so far and will not provide a climate where Scotland can thrive”.

It highlighted evidence given by Dr Alison Hosie, research officer with the Scottish Human Rights Commission, on the issue of tackling the current economic situation and rising inflation.

In a previous committee session she noted the rest of the world "have all been using borrowing powers", adding: "The lack of them is, therefore, a significant limitation, and requesting that borrowing powers be significantly improved is a legitimate ask of the Government in the reassessment of the fiscal framework.”

The report stated: “In light of the evidence received which outlines the difficulties the Scottish Government faces in responding to crises without such powers, we request the UK Government devolves significant borrowing powers.”

SNP MSP Emma Roddick, who sits on the committee, said: "This new report shows clearly that the devolution settlement is not fit for purpose.

"As the cost of living crisis deepens, the Scottish Government is already using the powers it has - but, as is clear in today's report, the Scottish Parliament needs borrowing powers from Westminster to go further.

"The poverty-accelerating welfare policies of the Tories must be reversed and the Scottish Tories need to decide if they will stand up for the people of Scotland or their bosses at Westminster.

"It's only the full powers of independence that protect Scotland from cruel Westminster policies for good - and ensure that decisions about Scotland are taken in Scotland."

But the report also noted the four committee members from opposition parties “dissented” from this recommendation – Conservative MSPs Jeremy Balfour and Miles Briggs, along with Labour’s Pam Duncan-Glancy and Foysol Choudhury.

In April, the Scottish Government announced it would be uprating devolved benefits by 6%, but since, inflation has risen to 10.1% and the committee has urged ministers to further increase the safety net or provide “detailed justification as to why not”.

The report stated: “We recognise the importance of maintaining the real-terms value of benefits. Therefore, we expect the Scottish Government to uprate all Scottish benefits by the September Consumer Prices Index of 10.1% and if this does not happen, we require detailed justification as to why not.”

SNP MSP Natalie Don, who is deputy convenor of the committee, said: “The current cost crisis risks causing severe damage to people and organisations throughout Scotland.

“Our committee believes that by following through on its initial good work to develop a human rights budget process, the Scottish Government can ensure that the voices of people and organisations who are on the front line of the cost crisis will be heard.”

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The Scottish Government has a legal duty to publish a report each year that sets out the impact of inflation on social security benefits, and our plans for the next financial year. We will do this in due course.

“In April we doubled the Scottish Child Payment to £20 per week per eligible child and this will further increase to £25 per week from 14 November – a rise of 150% in less than eight months providing important additional support for low-income families, which is only available in Scotland.

“In March we also uprated eight other Scottish benefits by 6%, which was significantly higher than the 3.1% CPI by which most UK Government benefits were increased.”

[Stairway 2 7]

Huge. Hopefully can get sorted as snp won't want to be locking horns with the nurses

https://mobile.twitter.com/STVNews/s...59108246728708

Nurses across Scotland overwhelmingly vote to strike in historic first

The Royal College of Nursing said the profession has been pushed to the edge at the cost of patient safety

[marinello59]

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Huge. Hopefully can get sorted as snp won't want to be locking horns with the nurses

https://mobile.twitter.com/STVNews/s...59108246728708

Nurses across Scotland overwhelmingly vote to strike in historic first

The Royal College of Nursing said the profession has been pushed to the edge at the cost of patient safety

Well done to the Nurses, I hope everybody gets behind them 100%.

[grunt]

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Huge. Hopefully can get sorted as snp won't want to be locking horns with the nurses

https://mobile.twitter.com/STVNews/s...59108246728708

Nurses across Scotland overwhelmingly vote to strike in historic first

The Royal College of Nursing said the profession has been pushed to the edge at the cost of patient safety

It's a nationwide strike across pretty much the whole of the UK. Why are you seeking to imply that it's a problem just for the SNP?

[Stairway 2 7]

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It's a nationwide strike across the whole of the UK. Why are you seeking to imply that it's a problem just for the SNP?

Because I'm not talking about English nurses or their offer in their separate NHS. Do you think if scot gov gave them what they were asking for they would still be striking, come on

[JeMeSouviens]

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Well done to the Nurses, I hope everybody gets behind them 100%.

I'm sure everyone that was out clapping will be in full support.

[Since90+2]

Nurses asking for a 17% wage rise effectively?