I don't think it's an unreasonable stance.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
You can support independence, accept that the SNP/ greens are a vehicle to get there yet be constructively critical of aspects of their performance in government.
I find it more credible a position to hold than those who defend every single thing that the SNP do to the tiniest little detail.
View Poll Results: Should Scotland be an independent country?
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Yes
458 69.18% -
No
175 26.44% -
Undecided
29 4.38%
Results 19,951 to 19,980 of 26549
Thread: Scottish Independence
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09-08-2022 02:18 PM #19951
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09-08-2022 02:43 PM #19952This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The SNP are far from perfect but let’s face it, when it comes to running the SG, there are no credible alternatives.
I think the situation in Westminster will prove unsustainable to Scots in ever larger numbers going forward.
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09-08-2022 02:44 PM #19953This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Although I think ...
"The only way to convince undecideds is to govern Scotland well – something the SNP and Greens have failed at spectacularly."
is way over the top, personally.
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09-08-2022 02:45 PM #19954This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Big question remains if that'll be a revitalised Scottish Labour or Conservative party or something new.
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09-08-2022 02:58 PM #19955This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThere is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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09-08-2022 03:07 PM #19956This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 03:31 PM #19957This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 03:46 PM #19958This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
One aspect of the SNP's governance where I would concede they've been ticking the right boxes is in their approach to child poverty. Otherwise they represent, for me, the worst aspects of 'Scottishness'. Dour, crabbit, chippy and endlessly nursing a grievance. Anything negative can be blamed on Westminster while anything positive can be framed along the lines of 'look how much better we could be doing if freed from Westminster shackles'. The reason the SNP get so agitated by the level of flak which has come their way over the ferries scandal is because they have nowhere to turn over a spectacular blunder which was entirely of their own making. Ditto the catalogue of ****-ups which lead to the Salmond High Court fiasco, while the mind-boggling drugs deaths stats on Sturgeon's watch can't be explained away by a lack of devolved powers.
Now we appear to have reached a stage where all pretence at sound governance is to be jettisoned in favour of fighting a general election as a 'de facto' referendum - as though such a thing actually exists.
Politics in the UK has been at a desperately low ebb for a number of years now, but is voting for the least worst option really the best we can do?
On a more general note, I do sometimes wonder what rational person would actually want to become a politician these days. Perhaps the scarcity of such MPs/MSPs reflects that and accounts for the current rather depressing landscape.Last edited by He's here!; 09-08-2022 at 03:51 PM.
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09-08-2022 03:55 PM #19959
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09-08-2022 04:24 PM #19960This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 04:36 PM #19961
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I'll continue to fight to get us out of a union, where governments of both persuasions can't get their act together, and would rather leave people destitute, and fighting to stay alive. This winter is going to be a bleak one.
Their continued lackadaisical approach to Russian money flooding into especially the Tories, and Labour's failure to stand with the workers, and refusing to nationalise industries. The pledges purged from the labour leaders lips doesn't fill me with confidence that we can't do better than both of them.
That's all before we start with the waste of money filling Tories bank accounts during the pandemic.
Sometimes we need to lift our eyes to see what we're actually achieving.
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09-08-2022 04:48 PM #19962This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Blimey.
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09-08-2022 04:49 PM #19963This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 05:09 PM #19964This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I personally don't recognise those things as Scottish at all.
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09-08-2022 05:21 PM #19965This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 05:28 PM #19966This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-08-2022 06:08 PM #19967
Are the SNP policies, outwith them wanting Scotland to be independent, grievence driven?
They describe themselves as having a progressive outlook so, is there much grievence even in the rhetoric of their actual policies?
Which party in the UK does have grievence driven policies? I think the answer might be obvious.
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09-08-2022 06:42 PM #19968
HH's description is applicable to me, but thankfully I'm not representative of our population as a whole :-)
Last edited by Glory Lurker; 09-08-2022 at 07:33 PM.
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09-08-2022 06:49 PM #19969This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 09:36 AM #19970
https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/sta...FuzD4rKYETIAdQ
UK govt legal arguments against self determination are up.
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10-08-2022 10:24 AM #19971
I have not voted previously for independence and felt the timing of a new vote was wrong (post COVID) but I would now rather take my chances on our and future generations as an independent country with huge natural resources, innovation etc than continue with being part of Englands fascist corrupt, insular and self distructive agenda and direction.
I am ashamed to be part of the UK. It is completely broken and will never recover.
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10-08-2022 10:37 AM #19972This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 12:08 PM #19974This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 12:09 PM #19975This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 12:13 PM #19976This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 12:30 PM #19977
https://twitter.com/xanderescribe/st...Rqu_gKMDV0IqGg
Thread on NS appearance at festival today.
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10-08-2022 12:43 PM #19978This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I've outlined more than once that my anti-independence stance does not have politics at its heart. To put that into some sort of context, this summer we've had a family holiday in Yorkshire (possibly my favourite part of the UK), spent a few days in London, attended the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham and the Open golf at St Andrews. Personally I love London. It's an endlessly exciting city, where many a Scot has made their mark, and I enjoy the fact it's becoming ever quicker to get there from Scotland. The Commonwealth Games were a joy to attend, sport for sport's sake with none of the tribalism which accompanies (men's) football. What was especially noticeable was the loud support from fans of all the home nations for UK competitors. Had I not been fortunate enough to come by complimentary tickets I'd have given the vastly overpriced Open a miss, but it was nevertheless a great spectacle, with the world's sporting eyes on golf's most prestigious venue. A brilliant month, taking in just a fraction of what the UK has to offer from a geographical, cultural and sporting aspect. There's a pride to be had there. Why would I not want to feel part of that?
From a political point of view, I'd be surprised if there's a devolved government in the world with more powers than Scotland's, which is why I find the SNP's insular approach, where nothing less than independence is acceptable, so utterly negative and wearisome. Its complete rejection of of both English and Scottish unionists can, at an extreme, stoke up the rhetoric of hatred and has, for a number of years now, split Scotland in two. There are surely better, more widely acceptable ways forward than breaking up the UK (a greater focus on federalism - perhaps even a confederal system - would be my favoured option), but they would require a level of compromise that it's impossible to imagine the one-track SNP acceding to.Last edited by He's here!; 10-08-2022 at 12:45 PM.
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10-08-2022 01:01 PM #19979This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-08-2022 01:07 PM #19980This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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