SNP are lying b******s as well !

[The Modfather]

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You may be surprised to hear I agree. The SNP policy is full EU membership for Scotland, nothing less. If they had some kind of roadmap that said stage 1 we will do this, stage 2 we will do this which them leads onto stage 3 etc then it would stop some of the noise.

We have nothing like that at all though. It's just we will join the EU, so any noise will be around what joining the EU means until they clarify otherwise.

Will the no side provide a similar roadmap to how we get out of the post Brexit managed decline we’re in? You only want to talk about the difficulties of independence, of which there are many, but avoid at all costs talking about the difficulties that come with a second no vote.

[CropleyWasGod]

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You may be surprised to hear I agree. The SNP policy is full EU membership for Scotland, nothing less. If they had some kind of roadmap that said stage 1 we will do this, stage 2 we will do this which them leads onto stage 3 etc then it would stop some of the noise.

We have nothing like that at all though. It's just we will join the EU, so any noise will be around what joining the EU means until they clarify otherwise.

Promise?

[James310]

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Promise?

Well maybe just a different kind of noise!

[Zambernardi1875]

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Thanks, both.

Kinda knew that, but was confused by some of the more extreme chat going on there.

It's therefore up to the Yes side to make all of that explicit, so that it's not hidden by the smoke of the No side.

Which the yes and snp have frustratingly not been doing since 2014 and instead concentrated on other ridiculous policies

[CropleyWasGod]

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Which the yes and snp have frustratingly not been doing since 2014 and instead concentrated on other ridiculous policies

Like running the country?

[Zambernardi1875]

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Like running the country?

8 years on and the snp still haven’t addressed the issues around currency or timescales on joining the EU. Until they are the no side will always have that as a trump card. I’m surprised and frustrated this has happened yet to convince people on the fence.

[grunt]

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8 years on and the snp still haven’t addressed the issues around currency or timescales on joining the EU.

Do you think that choosing a currency for a newly independent country is like buying a car? "I'll have that one, in yellow, with a diesel engine and alloy wheels". Same with timescales. Once we vote for independence there will be difficult discussions and negotiations to be had both with rUK and with the EU. Neither of these discussions can go very far at present because the rUK are denying that Scotland will ever be independent, and the EU can't openly have such discussions with us until we've made some progress with a referendum.

So I expect there's a lot of thinking going on at SG, and there will ultimately be a white paper setting out some broad principles around both currency and timetable. As said above, where there's a will there's a way. We will get to these things, at the appropriate time.

[James310]

I keep seeing where there is a will there's a way, I knew I had seen it before. Yes it's common phrase but I am sure at the time this would have been criticised by the very same people saying it now.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hunt-where...083720541.html

[Zambernardi1875]

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Do you think that choosing a currency for a newly independent country is like buying a car? "I'll have that one, in yellow, with a diesel engine and alloy wheels". Same with timescales. Once we vote for independence there will be difficult discussions and negotiations to be had both with rUK and with the EU. Neither of these discussions can go very far at present because the rUK are denying that Scotland will ever be independent, and the EU can't openly have such discussions with us until we've made some progress with a referendum.

So I expect there's a lot of thinking going on at SG, and there will ultimately be a white paper setting out some broad principles around both currency and timetable. As said above, where there's a will there's a way. We will get to these things, at the appropriate time.

After 2014 the SG should’ve brought out its own Scottish currency. Pegged ti the pound like the idea in Bristol but with maybe incentives on using that currency instead. Therefore now we’d have a better argument to say look we have our own currency and then also after joining the EU either used both. But this “all will be revealed later” isn’t swaying voters

[CropleyWasGod]

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After 2014 the SG should’ve brought out its own Scottish currency. Pegged ti the pound like the idea in Bristol but with maybe incentives on using that currency instead. Therefore now we’d have a better argument to say look we have our own currency and then also after joining the EU either used both. But this “all will be revealed later” isn’t swaying voters

Apart from the fact that that's probably not legal, there is no central bank to support it.

[grunt]

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I keep seeing where there is a will there's a way, I knew I had seen it before. Yes it's common phrase but I am sure at the time this would have been criticised by the very same people saying it now.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hunt-where...083720541.html

I guess you mean me. And QED, Hunt was right. Johnson was so determined to "get Brexit done" that he went back on his word and pushed Brexit through.

[James310]

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I guess you mean me. And QED, Hunt was right. Johnson was so determined to "get Brexit done" that he went back on his word and pushed Brexit through.

You are not the only one that has said it.

[James310]

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Apart from the fact that that's probably not legal, there is no central bank to support it.

Maybe he is onto something.

https://twitter.com/RideoutTim/statu...KLtqsizeg&s=19


I wonder what the exchange rate is?

[Berwickhibby]

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Maybe he is onto something.

https://twitter.com/RideoutTim/statu...KLtqsizeg&s=19


I wonder what the exchange rate is?

2 smackeroonies and bawbee to the pound…looks like a Ponzi scam

[James310]

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2 smackeroonies and bawbee to the pound…looks like a Ponzi scam

He is the guy suspended by the SNP for making racist comments and runs the fake Bank. He seems a bit of a fantasist. It's like playing shops when you were younger.

[Hibrandenburg]

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No, and in fact you can't join the Eurozone without being in the EU. Kosovo and Montenegro both use the Euro without being Eurozone members.

I'm pretty sure the reality of the situation is that iScotland would be "parked" in the EEA pre-accession and would take a few years to transition to full EU membership. During that time, we would also transition from any period of Sterlingisation to our own currency.

Like I said earlier, where there's a will there's a way. The EU can and have shown flexibility in the past. It's ludicrous to say they'd take a hard line with Scotland.

[James310]

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Like I said earlier, where there's a will there's a way. The EU can and have shown flexibility in the past. It's ludicrous to say they'd take a hard line with Scotland.

Are you aware of the EU relaxing the rules for anyone else? Montenegro applied for EU membership in 2008 and is still waiting, why are they not being flexible with them?

The EU said in a paper from 2014.

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-e...er_2013_en.pdf

"The accession process today is more rigorous and comprehensive than in the past. This reflects the evolution of EU policies as well as lessons learned from previous enlargements. The process is built on strict but fair conditionality with progress towards membership dependent on the steps taken by each country to meet the established criteria. A key lesson from the past is the importance of addressing the fundamentals first."

There is little basis for saying somehow Scotland will get a special deal. I am not saying they will take a hard line, they will just insist the rules are followed. Meet the criteria and you are in.

[Ozyhibby]

Scotland will do whatever it has to do to re-enter the EU. Anyone who says on here we wont is surely just trolling?


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[Hibrandenburg]

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Are you aware of the EU relaxing the rules for anyone else? Montenegro applied for EU membership in 2008 and is still waiting, why are they not being flexible with them?

The EU said in a paper from 2014.

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-e...er_2013_en.pdf

"The accession process today is more rigorous and comprehensive than in the past. This reflects the evolution of EU policies as well as lessons learned from previous enlargements. The process is built on strict but fair conditionality with progress towards membership dependent on the steps taken by each country to meet the established criteria. A key lesson from the past is the importance of addressing the fundamentals first."

There is little basis for saying somehow Scotland will get a special deal. I am not saying they will take a hard line, they will just insist the rules are followed. Meet the criteria and you are in.

To quote you, "are you really comparing Scotland to Montenegro"?

[James310]

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To quote you, "are you really comparing Scotland to Montenegro"?

Well it's a far better example than a commune in Italy with a population under 2,000 and the size of an Edinburgh suburb. It's an actual country going through the application process now.

But can you name any examples of where the EU was flexible with entry requirements, there may well be some but I am not aware of any?

[StevieC]

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Are you aware of the EU relaxing the rules for anyone else?.

Ukraine and Moldova.

Okay, it’s only fast tracking them to Candidate status, but once you’ve received candidate status you only need to comply with laws and regulations, which we already do.

[James310]

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Ukraine and Moldova.

Okay, it’s only fast tracking them to Candidate status, but once you’ve received candidate status you only need to comply with laws and regulations, which we already do.

They were clear, no special deal. This just backs up my point, if they won't do it for Ukraine why would they change the rules for Scotland?

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...ay-meps-demand


"In the context of the brutal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, this move would equate to showing leadership, resolve and vision, say MEPs. They insist that there is no ‘fast-track’ for EU membership and that accession remains a merit-based and structured process, which requires EU membership criteria to be fulfilled and is dependent on the effective implementation of reforms"

I mean it's there in black and white, no fast track process. You meet the rules you are in, it's the same for all countries, but somehow Scotland would be different...it's a baseless claim.

[The Modfather]

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They were clear, no special deal. This just backs up my point, if they won't do it for Ukraine why would they change the rules for Scotland?

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...ay-meps-demand


"In the context of the brutal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, this move would equate to showing leadership, resolve and vision, say MEPs. They insist that there is no ‘fast-track’ for EU membership and that accession remains a merit-based and structured process, which requires EU membership criteria to be fulfilled and is dependent on the effective implementation of reforms"

I mean it's there in black and white, no fast track process. You meet the rules you are in, it's the same for all countries, but somehow Scotland would be different...it's a baseless claim.

Are you now just arguing about the timescales of Scotland re-joining the EU? You’ve admited yourself that Brexit is an economic disaster. Would you see any benefit in Scotland re-joining the EU, whether that takes 1 year or 20, over remaining in the union that very much won’t be re-joining the EU?

[Ozyhibby]

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Are you now just arguing about the timescales of Scotland re-joining the EU? You’ve admited yourself that Brexit is an economic disaster. Would you see any benefit in Scotland re-joining the EU, whether that takes 1 year or 20, over remaining in the union that very much won’t be re-joining the EU?

Think they are back to arguing that they won’t let us in.


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[greenlex]

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They were clear, no special deal. This just backs up my point, if they won't do it for Ukraine why would they change the rules for Scotland?

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...ay-meps-demand


"In the context of the brutal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, this move would equate to showing leadership, resolve and vision, say MEPs. They insist that there is no ‘fast-track’ for EU membership and that accession remains a merit-based and structured process, which requires EU membership criteria to be fulfilled and is dependent on the effective implementation of reforms"

I mean it's there in black and white, no fast track process. You meet the rules you are in, it's the same for all countries, but somehow Scotland would be different...it's a baseless claim.

You obviously think a nation that has previous membership albeit as part of a “Union” that was removed against its peoples wishes would hold no sway in a swift return. You might find a special resolution would be found. Even if it was just to piss off former members. Politics is a funny old game. What sort of reforms that Ukraine need to make do you envisage an Independent Scotland having to do?

[ronaldo7]

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You are not the only one that has said it.

You definitely haven't. Too positive for you. 😁

[James310]

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Think they are back to arguing that they won’t let us in.


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Never said that once, I am being pretty clear you meet the rules and you are in. Just like Ukraine and just like every other country, Scotland won't be any different. All this talk of special deals or flexibility because we are Scotland is baseless and wishful thinking.

It's in black and white from the EU.

"No fast track to EU membership; accession only on the basis of merit and once criteria are fulfilled"

The above is exactly what I am saying.

[James310]

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You definitely haven't. Too positive for you. 😁

Have you been studying Nigel Farage? He used to accuse the opponents of Brexit of being too negative when all they were doing was pointing out the facts and the truth.

[James310]

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You obviously think a nation that has previous membership albeit as part of a “Union” that was removed against its peoples wishes would hold no sway in a swift return. You might find a special resolution would be found. Even if it was just to piss off former members. Politics is a funny old game. What sort of reforms that Ukraine need to make do you envisage an Independent Scotland having to do?

What's not clear in the EU stating:

"No fast track EU membership; accession only on the basis of merit and once criteria are fulfilled"

Maybe it's all lies.

Have said enough now, back to repeating myself over and over.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Never said that once, I am being pretty clear you meet the rules and you are in. Just like Ukraine and just like every other country, Scotland won't be any different. All this talk of special deals or flexibility because we are Scotland is baseless and wishful thinking.

It's in black and white from the EU.

"No fast track to EU membership; accession only on the basis of merit and once criteria are fulfilled"

The above is exactly what I am saying.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/03/31/scotlands-route-to-eu-membership/

Black and White from the EU, 3 or 4 years 😁