Local elections

[Berwickhibby]

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It's already been shown earlier on this thread that Edinburgh's roads are amongst the worst in the UK and have been for years. I don't know why you can't bring yourself to admit it has been a massive failure of the SNP lead council.

Because it’s an unwritten Holy Ground rule that you cannot criticise the SNP

[ronaldo7]

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Because it’s an unwritten Holy Ground rule that you cannot criticise the SNP

I've often heard of the .net myth. This is it.

[Ozyhibby]

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It's already been shown earlier on this thread that Edinburgh's roads are amongst the worst in the UK and have been for years. I don't know why you can't bring yourself to admit it has been a massive failure of the SNP lead council.

The congestion is getting worse because the govt, all govts btw, are trying to force people out their cars onto public transport. This is happening everywhere just now. I’m supportive of it which is why I’m not fussed about it. And I doubt the new BT council will change that either. So you might be disappointed again in 5 years time.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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I've often heard of the .net myth. This is it.

You'd probably get less of a pile on criticising hibs than the snp sometimes. It's understandable when the vast majority of prominent posters are pro snp. I think alot of people think if you criticise snp in any way it's anti independence or could be used to effect the referendum. I suppose that's right in a way, although it's unfair as independence isn't about the snp or any one party. Some also find it galling when the worst government in living memory are in Westminster

[ronaldo7]

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You'd probably get less of a pile on criticising hibs than the snp sometimes. It's understandable when the vast majority of prominent posters are pro snp. I think alot of people think if you criticise snp in any way it's anti independence or could be used to effect the referendum. I suppose that's right in a way, although it's unfair as independence isn't about the snp or any one party. Some also find it galling when the worst government in living memory are in Westminster

It's just that their argument is rather flimsy at times. 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

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It's just that their argument is rather flimsy at times. 😂

I agree. It's also generally small points that are against the snp. Even the anti snp posters, say more along the lines of name the good they have done, rather than point to any bad. Where as on the tories we say, name the good they have done as here is 300 **** ups

[James310]

Alex Massie with a good summary of the last week and the local election shenanigans.

"An opinion poll unkindly timed to coincide with Nicola Sturgeon becoming Scotland’s longest-serving first minister suggested last week that, despite everything, she has made precisely no progress towards achieving her administration’s defining mission. As matters stand, 45 per cent of Scottish voters support independence and 55 per cent oppose it.

All that energy, all that huffing and puffing and manoeuvring and whining, has produced nothing of any obvious consequence. Despite Brexit, despite Covid-19, despite Boris Johnson, the people of Scotland are unmoved. For now, we are back where we were when Sturgeon became first minister in 2014. Everything is different but nothing has changed.
This being so, one wondered how the nationalists would mark the occasion. The answer, it became clear, was by changing the subject. It is, you see, a disgrace — a copper-bottomed scandal — that across large swathes of Scotland other political parties are ganging up on the poor old SNP. The nationalists have discovered that winning the most council seats in the recent local government elections is not the same as owning the right to form council administrations.

So the cry goes up: “It’s not fair.” Not fair that other parties are running minority administrations or, in some areas, even semi-formal coalitions designed to exclude the SNP from power. Not fair that other parties are declining to give the SNP everything they want. Not fair that Labour and the Liberal Democrats and even, sometimes, the Conservatives are working together.

It is true that Labour is at least half-breaking promises not to form pacts or coalitions with other parties. But what of it? I rather doubt voters paid much attention to these vows before the local elections and I am confident very few care about them now.

Still, “Anas [Sarwar] would be better just owning it,” Sturgeon tweeted. “Denying what people can see with their own eyes — ie Labour administrations that are only possible with Tory support — makes him seem shifty and gives [the] impression he thinks voters are daft, which just compounds the strategic political error.”
If anyone is treating voters as simpletons here it is the first minister. She served in a minority Scottish government that passed its budgets thanks to a deal with the Tories. If that was good enough for the SNP at national level it is good enough for Labour at a local level.

No other party behaves like this. Nobody else dispenses strategic political advice to other parties on the grounds the poor boobies are too thick to understand their own best interests. Nobody else assumes that other parties are floundering in the fog of false consciousness just waiting for the gift of nationalist enlightenment. As with many SNP affectations this performative outrage would be highly amusing if it weren’t so exhausting.

Once again, however, we may note that the SNP has thoroughly become the Labour party it supplanted as Scotland’s pre-eminent political party. The same shrill sense of entitlement; the same incomprehension anyone might reasonably take a different view on anything; the same lumpen-brained intolerance. The transformation is complete; four legs good, two legs better.
All of which, as so often, requires Olympian standards of mental gymnastics. For instance, we are asked to take seriously the proposition that people who voted for Labour candidates in the council elections will be appalled to discover that Labour is now running a series of minority administrations across Scotland. These voters will be sickened by the prospect of getting at least part of what they voted for. Labour has been on the back foot for so long that I fancy the party’s supporters will be enjoying all this nationalist frothing. Not for the first time, I detect the hand of Jackie Baillie — who both loves to wind-up the SNP and is good at it — playing a part in Labour’s new appreciation for political chicanery.

Granted, Labour has come to a series of accommodations with the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats but, rather than whining about this, the SNP should perhaps ask why — even at a local level — other parties are typically disinclined to work with the nationalists. One answer is that SNP council leaders are less likely to take a stand against a Scottish government simultaneously starving local government of funds and circumscribing its responsibilities.

And, gosh, the nationalists’ inconsistency is as pungent as their bed-wetting. In Dumfries and Galloway, the Conservatives won the greatest number of seats but have been frozen out by everyone else. Labour and the SNP councillors have been appointed co-leaders and will require the support of independents and the sole Lib Dem elected in the southwest. Oddly, we hear no pious screeching from Sturgeon about this assault on democracy.

Nor, for heaven’s sake, should we. Multi-member wards elected by the single transferable vote are designed to make power-sharing at council level the norm. Winning a plurality of councillors is not enough; all that matters is cobbling together some kind of working arrangement that may carry majority support. Cross-party deals are proof of the system working, not its failure.

But according to Adam McVey, the outgoing SNP council leader in Edinburgh, the new “Lab/Tory/Lib coalition is held together by nothing more than a burning hatred of the SNP and a carve-up of jobs”. Well, that “nothing more” is more than enough to bind the new administration together. In any case, your bins don’t care about the constitution and the capital’s filthy streets provide ample justification for regime change at the council headquarters.
Voters actually like the idea of different parties working together for the common good. Many council responsibilities are largely impervious to ideological distinction and it could easily be argued that local government suffers from too much in the way of normal party politics rather than not enough of it.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating Scottish politics’ enthusiasm for juvenile — and jejune — posturing, however. Still, the first minister likes to give the impression she is somehow above all that, but the truth is she is as addicted to dubious point-scoring and truth-melting absurdity as anyone else. Since governments — and political parties — take on the qualities of those leading them, it is no surprise that here, as elsewhere in these isles, the rot begins at the top.

[Ozyhibby]

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Alex Massie with a good summary of the last week and the local election shenanigans.

"An opinion poll unkindly timed to coincide with Nicola Sturgeon becoming Scotland’s longest-serving first minister suggested last week that, despite everything, she has made precisely no progress towards achieving her administration’s defining mission. As matters stand, 45 per cent of Scottish voters support independence and 55 per cent oppose it.

All that energy, all that huffing and puffing and manoeuvring and whining, has produced nothing of any obvious consequence. Despite Brexit, despite Covid-19, despite Boris Johnson, the people of Scotland are unmoved. For now, we are back where we were when Sturgeon became first minister in 2014. Everything is different but nothing has changed.
This being so, one wondered how the nationalists would mark the occasion. The answer, it became clear, was by changing the subject. It is, you see, a disgrace — a copper-bottomed scandal — that across large swathes of Scotland other political parties are ganging up on the poor old SNP. The nationalists have discovered that winning the most council seats in the recent local government elections is not the same as owning the right to form council administrations.

So the cry goes up: “It’s not fair.” Not fair that other parties are running minority administrations or, in some areas, even semi-formal coalitions designed to exclude the SNP from power. Not fair that other parties are declining to give the SNP everything they want. Not fair that Labour and the Liberal Democrats and even, sometimes, the Conservatives are working together.

It is true that Labour is at least half-breaking promises not to form pacts or coalitions with other parties. But what of it? I rather doubt voters paid much attention to these vows before the local elections and I am confident very few care about them now.

Still, “Anas [Sarwar] would be better just owning it,” Sturgeon tweeted. “Denying what people can see with their own eyes — ie Labour administrations that are only possible with Tory support — makes him seem shifty and gives [the] impression he thinks voters are daft, which just compounds the strategic political error.”
If anyone is treating voters as simpletons here it is the first minister. She served in a minority Scottish government that passed its budgets thanks to a deal with the Tories. If that was good enough for the SNP at national level it is good enough for Labour at a local level.

No other party behaves like this. Nobody else dispenses strategic political advice to other parties on the grounds the poor boobies are too thick to understand their own best interests. Nobody else assumes that other parties are floundering in the fog of false consciousness just waiting for the gift of nationalist enlightenment. As with many SNP affectations this performative outrage would be highly amusing if it weren’t so exhausting.

Once again, however, we may note that the SNP has thoroughly become the Labour party it supplanted as Scotland’s pre-eminent political party. The same shrill sense of entitlement; the same incomprehension anyone might reasonably take a different view on anything; the same lumpen-brained intolerance. The transformation is complete; four legs good, two legs better.
All of which, as so often, requires Olympian standards of mental gymnastics. For instance, we are asked to take seriously the proposition that people who voted for Labour candidates in the council elections will be appalled to discover that Labour is now running a series of minority administrations across Scotland. These voters will be sickened by the prospect of getting at least part of what they voted for. Labour has been on the back foot for so long that I fancy the party’s supporters will be enjoying all this nationalist frothing. Not for the first time, I detect the hand of Jackie Baillie — who both loves to wind-up the SNP and is good at it — playing a part in Labour’s new appreciation for political chicanery.

Granted, Labour has come to a series of accommodations with the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats but, rather than whining about this, the SNP should perhaps ask why — even at a local level — other parties are typically disinclined to work with the nationalists. One answer is that SNP council leaders are less likely to take a stand against a Scottish government simultaneously starving local government of funds and circumscribing its responsibilities.

And, gosh, the nationalists’ inconsistency is as pungent as their bed-wetting. In Dumfries and Galloway, the Conservatives won the greatest number of seats but have been frozen out by everyone else. Labour and the SNP councillors have been appointed co-leaders and will require the support of independents and the sole Lib Dem elected in the southwest. Oddly, we hear no pious screeching from Sturgeon about this assault on democracy.

Nor, for heaven’s sake, should we. Multi-member wards elected by the single transferable vote are designed to make power-sharing at council level the norm. Winning a plurality of councillors is not enough; all that matters is cobbling together some kind of working arrangement that may carry majority support. Cross-party deals are proof of the system working, not its failure.

But according to Adam McVey, the outgoing SNP council leader in Edinburgh, the new “Lab/Tory/Lib coalition is held together by nothing more than a burning hatred of the SNP and a carve-up of jobs”. Well, that “nothing more” is more than enough to bind the new administration together. In any case, your bins don’t care about the constitution and the capital’s filthy streets provide ample justification for regime change at the council headquarters.
Voters actually like the idea of different parties working together for the common good. Many council responsibilities are largely impervious to ideological distinction and it could easily be argued that local government suffers from too much in the way of normal party politics rather than not enough of it.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating Scottish politics’ enthusiasm for juvenile — and jejune — posturing, however. Still, the first minister likes to give the impression she is somehow above all that, but the truth is she is as addicted to dubious point-scoring and truth-melting absurdity as anyone else. Since governments — and political parties — take on the qualities of those leading them, it is no surprise that here, as elsewhere in these isles, the rot begins at the top.

Fair play to Massie, he’s consistent. And he has made a fortune repackaging the same article multiple times a months for more than 10 years.


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[James310]

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Fair play to Massie, he’s consistent. And he has made a fortune repackaging the same article multiple times a months for more than 10 years.


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In what way? It's all stuff about the last few weeks.

[marinello59]

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Fair play to Massie, he’s consistent. And he has made a fortune repackaging the same article multiple times a months for more than 10 years.


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I cant stand Massie. .
That’s a fair piece though no matter how uncomfortable it makes those of us who are pro-indy feel.

[danhibees1875]

Weird one to think about on a Saturday night... With the SNP out of Edinburgh council does that mean the proposed tourist tax will no longer happen?

(Most relevant thread I could find)

[ronaldo7]

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Weird one to think about on a Saturday night... With the SNP out of Edinburgh council does that mean the proposed tourist tax will no longer happen?

(Most relevant thread I could find)

No idea, but the bins are overflowing...Anas, where are you?