Scotrail

[Ozyhibby]

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I can't imagine them being offered much more than that. Hard to see how this one gets resolved anytime soon.

Looks like some grim months ahead if they strike. Which will have quite an impact on hospitality and entertainment businesses, particularly going into August.

I think we are in for some tough times ahead across all public services. Unions are going to be asking for money the SG just doesn’t have with it’s fixed budget. We are going to be seeing a lot of strike action over the next couple of years.


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[Hermit Crab]

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I think it’s widely accepted that the RMT is one of the most effective unions. I think it will be partly down to that.

Its not RMT this time, the train drivers union is ASLEF

[Skol]

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Why is asking for a decent wage and terms and conditions, a stunt?

I see it that way as in part its a quirk of their T&Cs that enables them to take this action.

I doubt if many people will have any where near the offer they have and I know personally that my organisation has had no pay rise in the last 2 years. I reckon we would bite their hand off for 4.2%

[He's here!]

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Greedy Bar Stewards.

Absolutely. Aslef are living on another planet if they think that offer isn't very reasonable in the current financial climate. Selfish in the extreme and more or less assures us of a painful summer for rail travellers in Scotland.

[Since90+2]

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Why is asking for a decent wage and terms and conditions, a stunt?

They are not asking for a decent wage, they already have that with a salary way over the national average.

[Smartie]

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Absolutely. Aslef are living on another planet if they think that offer isn't very reasonable in the current financial climate. Selfish in the extreme and more or less assures us of a painful summer for rail travellers in Scotland.

Personally I think it's quite hard to assess what is "reasonable" in the current financial climate.

Have we had the Tories in charge for so long that a proposed increase miles short of the rate of inflation is acceptable just because it's likely to be better than that offered to other public sector workers?

[Stairway 2 7]

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Personally I think it's quite hard to assess what is "reasonable" in the current financial climate.

Have we had the Tories in charge for so long that a proposed increase miles short of the rate of inflation is acceptable just because it's likely to be better than that offered to other public sector workers?

Inflation in the majority of Europe is above 8% and will rise further. Its not economical for everyone to get that rise. It will come down over the next few years thankfully. Its clearly a good offer from scot gov

[Ozyhibby]

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Inflation in the majority of Europe is above 8% and will rise further. Its not economical for everyone to get that rise. It will come down over the next few years thankfully. Its clearly a good offer from scot gov

It’s a great offer to be honest. This will turn out badly for the drivers.


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[Moulin Yarns]

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It’s a great offer to be honest. This will turn out badly for the drivers.


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They should be chuffed!

[Just Alf]

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It’s a great offer to be honest. This will turn out badly for the drivers.


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Yup, they're basically asking for others to take even less of a rise.

I'm disappointed with my 1.2% but I realise it's a fixed pot of funding and can only hope for better in future... and that there IS actually a future!

[neil7908]

I'm generally supportive of unions but 4.2%, seems a great deal for a group who, from what I've read, are on average salaries of £50k+.

Yes incomes are being squeezed but that's a very, very good wage in Scotland.

[lucky]

Why compare worker v worker? Surely every worker is worth a rise that does not mean the their standard of living goes backwards. Train drivers earn decent money but that does not mean that other workers shouldn’t. More workers should join a union get organised and fight for improvements in their terms and conditions. I find bizarre that on football fans forum that we have people complaining about salaries of workers, FFS it was rumoured that Muller was £10k a week at Hibs! Surely every worker has the right to negotiate their salary and if that means joining a union and taking industrial action, even though train drivers haven’t taken action, then so be it.

[Santa Cruz]

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Why compare worker v worker? Surely every worker is worth a rise that does not mean the their standard of living goes backwards. Train drivers earn decent money but that does not mean that other workers shouldn’t. More workers should join a union get organised and fight for improvements in their terms and conditions. I find bizarre that on football fans forum that we have people complaining about salaries of workers, FFS it was rumoured that Muller was £10k a week at Hibs! Surely every worker has the right to negotiate their salary and if that means joining a union and taking industrial action, even though train drivers haven’t taken action, then so be it.

Don't disagree with this post, other than to say, all public sector workers should have comparable pay increases to avoid these comparisons. If Aslef keep pushing and they negotiate an award above 5% this will cause a huge ripple affect through all other public sector unions. The offer they have been given in the current climate is fair imo. If they ballot for industrial action, I can't see it lasting long, they need a salary too.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Why compare worker v worker? Surely every worker is worth a rise that does not mean the their standard of living goes backwards. Train drivers earn decent money but that does not mean that other workers shouldn’t. More workers should join a union get organised and fight for improvements in their terms and conditions. I find bizarre that on football fans forum that we have people complaining about salaries of workers, FFS it was rumoured that Muller was £10k a week at Hibs! Surely every worker has the right to negotiate their salary and if that means joining a union and taking industrial action, even though train drivers haven’t taken action, then so be it.

Football wages are shocking, we don't support they workers. The world is seeing hyper inflation due to fuel prices and a hopefully once in a lifetime pandemic. Its not sustainable for everyone in the world an inflation matching wage rise.

It would also be lunacy as inflation is going to drop a big deal next year, so wage rise has to take that into account. We're all going to face a hit this year. Scot govs offer was fair I believe and would give them less of a hit that most workers I would think.

[Just Alf]

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Why compare worker v worker? Surely every worker is worth a rise that does not mean the their standard of living goes backwards. Train drivers earn decent money but that does not mean that other workers shouldn’t. More workers should join a union get organised and fight for improvements in their terms and conditions. I find bizarre that on football fans forum that we have people complaining about salaries of workers, FFS it was rumoured that Muller was £10k a week at Hibs! Surely every worker has the right to negotiate their salary and if that means joining a union and taking industrial action, even though train drivers haven’t taken action, then so be it.

For me the comparison is simply that every single one of us will be taking a hit, even self employed folks as people will have less funds to go around... those that are unhappy at the railway workers are just wondering why they should take less of a hit than the rest of us.

Mate I play pool with says his brother's a bit peeved as he's getting grief for being a greedy 'b' and tory like, and he's claiming him and many colleagues are actually happy to take the offer but hasn't been asked.

[Ozyhibby]

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For me the comparison is simply that every single one of us will be taking a hit, even self employed folks as people will have less funds to go around... those that are unhappy at the railway workers are just wondering why they should take less of a hit than the rest of us.

Mate I play pool with says his brother's a bit peeved as he's getting grief for being a greedy 'b' and tory like, and he's claiming him and many colleagues are actually happy to take the offer but hasn't been asked.

I think it’s a decent offer and I’m surprised they are not taking it.
Whatever they get, it will have to be recouped in higher train fares for the rest of us.


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[SChibs]

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For me the comparison is simply that every single one of us will be taking a hit, even self employed folks as people will have less funds to go around... those that are unhappy at the railway workers are just wondering why they should take less of a hit than the rest of us.

Mate I play pool with says his brother's a bit peeved as he's getting grief for being a greedy 'b' and tory like, and he's claiming him and many colleagues are actually happy to take the offer but hasn't been asked.

I think the problem is that is not every single one of us that will be taking the hit. The rich people will coninue to make more and more money and many companies will continue to make record profits. Its the poorer half of society that is expected to make the cuts to their lifestyle and go through the hards time when the rich do not have to

[hibsbollah]

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Why compare worker v worker? Surely every worker is worth a rise that does not mean the their standard of living goes backwards. Train drivers earn decent money but that does not mean that other workers shouldn’t. More workers should join a union get organised and fight for improvements in their terms and conditions. I find bizarre that on football fans forum that we have people complaining about salaries of workers, FFS it was rumoured that Muller was £10k a week at Hibs! Surely every worker has the right to negotiate their salary and if that means joining a union and taking industrial action, even though train drivers haven’t taken action, then so be it.

[Just Alf]

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I think the problem is that is not every single one of us that will be taking the hit. The rich people will coninue to make more and more money and many companies will continue to make record profits. Its the poorer half of society that is expected to make the cuts to their lifestyle and go through the hards time when the rich do not have to

Pretty much agree with that, and that's the issue I think, folks see people on £50k as 'rich' and take a really dim view of them getting a bigger % wage increase than many others on a lower wage (increasing the % differential)


Edit, I should add I don't begrudge the current % offer, we all live to our current 'means' so will be impacted by rising prices, some sort of increase across the board isn't out of order.

[speedy_gonzales]

Not all Scotrail drivers are on the much touted £50K.
But even if they all were, encouraging the average Joe to attack the fellow worker rather than encouraging everyone to fight for decent pay, reward and annual increase is right out the Tory playbook.
Network Rail staff have suffered two years of pay freezes and have not been paid contractual bonuses that on average can equate to 2 or 4% of salary. That is proper cuts to salary and the staff are now in dispute with the company.
It might feel like the 80's all over again but for me the very minimum is to honour contractual obligations and have an annual salary increment that's close to something like CPI, RPI, etc.

[James310]

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Not all Scotrail drivers are on the much touted £50K.
But even if they all were, encouraging the average Joe to attack the fellow worker rather than encouraging everyone to fight for decent pay, reward and annual increase is right out the Tory playbook.
Network Rail staff have suffered two years of pay freezes and have not been paid contractual bonuses that on average can equate to 2 or 4% of salary. That is proper cuts to salary and the staff are now in dispute with the company.
It might feel like the 80's all over again but for me the very minimum is to honour contractual obligations and have an annual salary increment that's close to something like CPI, RPI, etc.

I wonder if it wasn't a SNP government and a Tory government if people would still be calling the train drivers greedy and siding with the government over the workers. Hard to say probably.

[Just Alf]

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I wonder if it wasn't a SNP government and a Tory government if people would still be calling the train drivers greedy and siding with the government over the workers. Hard to say probably.

It's a good point I guess, I've not even considered that aspect... my personal view is we all need to take a bit of a hit, so why should those already paid much higher than many not be impacted as much?

I've had less than a 2% pay rise, doing so means no redundancies and vacancies currently being advertised will still be filled. We could have driven for more, most of us would have been a bit better off a couple would be out though.

I still agree with the staff that are happy with the 4% odd... seems a fair compromise to me.

[Santa Cruz]

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Its not RMT this time, the train drivers union is ASLEF

This is RMT - full article too long to paste.

SCOTLAND'S railways are set to be paralysed by a three-day train workers strike to bring even more misery to travellers.
More than 50,000 railway staff will walkout later this month in the biggest dispute on the network in 33 years.
The RMT union will shut down the country's railway network on 21st, 23rd and 25th June, in an ongoing UK-wide dispute with Network Rail -which owns the nation’s rail tracks, stations and signals – over plans to axe hundreds of critical maintenance jobs.

[neil7908]

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I think it’s a decent offer and I’m surprised they are not taking it.
Whatever they get, it will have to be recouped in higher train fares for the rest of us.


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There is also a danger here as well about the impact on usage of railway. The longer this drags on, the more likely people are to find other ways of getting around. Use of public transport is already down on the pandemic, and prolonged reductions like this will make people less likely to use trains, with the potential that lower usage in the future means job losses.

I support workers but I found it puzzling the union execs rejected the deal without even allowing a vote - that struck me as very odd and made me question their motives.

[neil7908]

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I wonder if it wasn't a SNP government and a Tory government if people would still be calling the train drivers greedy and siding with the government over the workers. Hard to say probably.

Think it's a bit more complex than that, as ultimately the SNP do not have the same powers and levers to generate revenue the way the UK Govt does. They are working with much less options to find money to cover big pay rises for the public sector, with a much larger likelihood it comes from cuts somewhere else.

[ronaldo7]

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Think it's a bit more complex than that, as ultimately the SNP do not have the same powers and levers to generate revenue the way the UK Govt does. They are working with much less options to find money to cover big pay rises for the public sector, with a much larger likelihood it comes from cuts somewhere else.

The Government in England just borrow more and tell us we're paying for it later.

[lucky]

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There is also a danger here as well about the impact on usage of railway. The longer this drags on, the more likely people are to find other ways of getting around. Use of public transport is already down on the pandemic, and prolonged reductions like this will make people less likely to use trains, with the potential that lower usage in the future means job losses.

I support workers but I found it puzzling the union execs rejected the deal without even allowing a vote - that struck me as very odd and made me question their motives.

The union Executive never put it to a vote because the negotiators wouldn’t recommend it after consultation with drivers in Scotland

[Sylar]

I see they're telling Scotland fans to leave before the final whistle tonight as the last train from the national stadium is before full-time.

A public transport infrastructure that's not fit for purpose, especially if this Government have genuine ambitions to get people out of cars and using trains/buses etc as part of their climate ambitions.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I see they're telling Scotland fans to leave before the final whistle tonight as the last train from the national stadium is before full-time.

A public transport infrastructure that's not fit for purpose, especially if this Government have genuine ambitions to get people out of cars and using trains/buses etc as part of their climate ambitions.

This post neatly sums up why Scotgov are absolute mugs to nationalise the railway operating company. It's a guaranteed failure as they have neither the control of the infrastructure (network rail) nor the power to borrow the sort of money it would take to sort it out, even if that were affordable. They have made themselves the scapegoats for decades of chronic underinvestment.

At least it will make a change from ferries I suppose.

[Sylar]

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This post neatly sums up why Scotgov are absolute mugs to nationalise the railway operating company. It's a guaranteed failure as they have neither the control of the infrastructure (network rail) nor the power to borrow the sort of money it would take to sort it out, even if that were affordable. They have made themselves the scapegoats for decades of chronic underinvestment.

At least it will make a change from ferries I suppose.

I definitely don't blame them for what's gone before JMS and I don't necessarily blame them entirely here either. But the fact of the matter is that the service is as bad as it's ever been right now, and I don't see any plans or suggestions that it's going to improve under the SG ownership model (so far!).

You're spot on that previous failure in investment and a lack of ownership over the actual infrastructure are massive barriers to what can realistically be done within cost, but they've downgraded the service with those same constraints compared to the previous owners by quite some margin.

I'm not using this as any kind of hammer to beat the Government for political argument - this is an area I'd really like them to succeed in, because their climate change ambitions are great and I want to see them achieve those goals. It would also be great for me on a personal level to be able to get from my home town into and out of work/the city without it costing me more than fuel (although that's debatable in recent months), and without fear that I'm going to get stranded due to ongoing issues.