Local elections

[Since90+2]

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Yeah, quite right. Let's completely ignore the democratic process and have the Council run by people that no one voted for. Let's see if it works. Why not?

No democratic process has been broken.

It might be you don't like how the coalition has come about, but no rules have been broken, and that is a fact.

You can either continue to moan and complain about it or hope it works out and support the people now in positions of authority.

[overdrive]

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Why don't we just hope it works out and the residents have a good and effective council? I'm a supporter of independence, but it seems to be that lots of folk would rather the whole thing was a shambles so they can strike out at the Tories and Labour.

How about let's see if it works out and our day to day lives are a bit easier with a well run council instead of constant political bickering?

This. I’m a member of the Labour Party and I have to say that I’m not exactly happy that the party have made this deal with the Tories (I don’t mind it with the Lib Dems). I’m willing to see how it goes though in the hope the mess Edinburgh finds itself in is improved.

They really need to codify the principle that the party with the most seats gets first refusal at trying to form either a coalition or a minority administration though. That should have been done when STV was introduced.

[Berwickhibby]

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This is turning out to be the same unsubstantiated argument that the SNP were responsible for Thatcher being elected!!

Not unsubstantiated…fact was the SNP MPs crossed the floor and sided with the Tories in a vote of no confidence against Callaghan which resulted in a general election which Thatcher won. Before you start, I am fully aware that Labour and Liberal MPs also crossed the floor. However without the 11 SNPs the Tories would not have had a majority to force said election.

[grunt]

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No democratic process has been broken.

It might be you don't like how the coalition has come about, but no rules have been broken, and that is a fact.

You can either continue to moan and complain about it or hope it works out and support the people now in positions of authority.

Perhaps there has been no process which has been broken, but what about the principle? Do you think those who voted Labour - on a promise that Labour would not enter into coalition with anyone - would ever wish to see their vote used to give power to the Tories?

Also, what is your hope for success based on? Which policy areas do you think the Tories and Labour will ever agree on?

[grunt]

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This. I’m a member of the Labour Party and I have to say that I’m not exactly happy that the party have made this deal with the Tories (I don’t mind it with the Lib Dems). I’m willing to see how it goes though in the hope the mess Edinburgh finds itself in is improved.

Thanks for confirming my impression that Labour supporter would not be happy with this..

I'm intrigued, what action / policy / principle of the Tories gives you hope that their involvement in running Edinburgh will improve things? Presumably if you thought having the Tories run the city you would have voted for them in the first place?

[Since90+2]

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Perhaps there has been no process which has been broken, but what about the principle? Do you think those who voted Labour - on a promise that Labour would not enter into coalition with anyone - would ever wish to see their vote used to give power to the Tories?

Also, what is your hope for success based on? Which policy areas do you think the Tories and Labour will ever agree on?

It's not really based on anything to be honest, I'm not saying they'll be a success, I'm simply saying I hope they are as it will benefit the people of Edinburgh. Surely, ultimately that is what the end aim should be?

There are people who would genuinely rather see it fail so they can shout 'Tory Bad!, Labour Bad!". They might not outwardly admit it but they are so engrossed in Tory hating and independence supporting they'd prefer that to it being a success.

[grunt]

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It's not really based on anything to be honest, I'm not saying they'll be a success, I'm simply saying I hope they are as it will benefit the people of Edinburgh. Surely, ultimately that is what the end aim should be?

I hope you're right. We all hope for better times ahead - we're Hibs fans after all - but I can't see that having the Tories involved in running Edinburgh augurs well.

[Since90+2]

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I hope you're right. We all hope for better times ahead - we're Hibs fans after all - but I can't see that having the Tories involved in running Edinburgh augurs well.

The Tories are not running Edinburgh council though, they are part of a 3 party coalition.

[Santa Cruz]

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This. I’m a member of the Labour Party and I have to say that I’m not exactly happy that the party have made this deal with the Tories (I don’t mind it with the Lib Dems). I’m willing to see how it goes though in the hope the mess Edinburgh finds itself in is improved.

They really need to codify the principle that the party with the most seats gets first refusal at trying to form either a coalition or a minority administration though. That should have been done when STV was introduced.

I'm not fussed at local level what coalitions are formed, what's important is improving services. If they all stopped the political point scoring and worked together to do the jobs they are actually elected to do, I'm sure they would achieve much more. Agree with your point about the current system needing reformed.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Not unsubstantiated…fact was the SNP MPs crossed the floor and sided with the Tories in a vote of no confidence against Callaghan which resulted in a general election which Thatcher won. Before you start, I am fully aware that Labour and Liberal MPs also crossed the floor. However without the 11 SNPs the Tories would not have had a majority to force said election.

A vote of no confidence which won by 1 vote. Note that the SNP were 11 Liberal Democrats 13 as well as the Northern Ireland unionist parties.

Let's not kid ourselves that a minority government stood a chance of winning a vote of no confidence after the Labour Party scuppered the first devolution vote.

[Ozyhibby]

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The Tories are not running Edinburgh council though, they are part of a 3 party coalition.

Tut tut. This is NOT a coalition.


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[Since90+2]

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Tut tut. This is NOT a coalition.


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And we're back to the political point scoring again...

[Ozyhibby]

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And we're back to the political point scoring again...

I wish the new Labour, Lib Dem, Tory ‘not a coalition’ well. I have to live here after all. It’s ok to be a little concerned that this ‘not a coalition’ looks a little bit shaky at the outset and feel a little disappointed that a more stable actual coalition couldn’t have been formed.


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[James310]

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I wish the new Labour, Lib Dem, Tory ‘not a coalition’ well. I have to live here after all. It’s ok to be a little concerned that this ‘not a coalition’ looks a little bit shaky at the outset and feel a little disappointed that a more stable actual coalition could have been formed.


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The SNP and Greens have 29 seats, the non coalition of Labour/LD/Tory's have 34 seats. So if anything the SNP/Greens one would have been even more shaky and unstable.

[ronaldo7]

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Wasn't it an SNP/labour council?

It was. Labour will now carry the can for Edinburgh's woes. They're in charge. Let's hope they are few and far between.

[Berwickhibby]

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A vote of no confidence which won by 1 vote. Note that the SNP were 11 Liberal Democrats 13 as well as the Northern Ireland unionist parties.

Let's not kid ourselves that a minority government stood a chance of winning a vote of no confidence after the Labour Party scuppered the first devolution vote.

Really…. your memory must be slipping, I recall the distain for the Tartan Tories for their behaviour and if I believe 9 lost their seats at the election..but you can dress it up as SNP goooooood as much as you want

[Ozyhibby]

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The SNP and Greens have 29 seats, the non coalition of Labour/LD/Tory's have 34 seats. So if anything the SNP/Greens one would have been even more shaky and unstable.

I was more thinking an SNP/Labour/Green coalition.


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[ronaldo7]

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Really…. your memory must be slipping, I recall the distain for the Tartan Tories for their behaviour and if I believe 9 lost their seats at the election..but you can dress it up as SNP goooooood as much as you want

You can play the numbers game all you like with this, but to say 11 is bigger than 13 is a new labour low. 😂

Back to school for you. 📚

If only Callaghan had allowed his labour MP, Sir Alfred Broughton to travel and vote from his ambulance in speakers court, he'd have won the vote. Broughton wanted to vote, but Callaghan wouldn't let him. Broughton died shortly after on April 2nd

Or if the pairing of Bernard Weatherill had stood, instead of the labour whip allowing him to vote, Callaghan would have survived.

Too many labour peeps wanting to pin it on the dastardly SNP, instead of looking at their own house first.

All this before you even have a look at the Ulster unionists and the pipeline to Ireland.

[James310]

I suspect a number of the SNP councillors are also quite upset at losing the extra money that comes with the positions of power. Adam McVey for example has gone from nearly £60K a year to about £20K a year, that's going to hurt.

[Berwickhibby]

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You can play the numbers game all you like with this, but to say 11 is bigger than 13 is a new labour low. 😂

Back to school for you. 📚

If only Callaghan had allowed his labour MP, Sir Alfred Broughton to travel and vote from his ambulance in speakers court, he'd have won the vote. Broughton wanted to vote, but Callaghan wouldn't let him. Broughton died shortly after on April 2nd

Or if the pairing of Bernard Weatherill had stood, instead of the labour whip allowing him to vote, Callaghan would have survived.

Too many labour peeps wanting to pin it on the dastardly SNP, instead of looking at their own house first.

All this before you even have a look at the Ulster unionists and the pipeline to Ireland.

Deflect deflect …. Not the SNP … look over there it’s all their fault….I also mentioned on my original response about Labour and liberal MPs crossing the chamber along with the Tartan Tories

[JeMeSouviens]

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Deflect deflect …. Not the SNP … look over there it’s all their fault….I also mentioned on my original response about Labour and liberal MPs crossing the chamber along with the Tartan Tories

Oh god, not this again.

Should the SNP have voted with the Tories? - No, obviously not. It was essentially a temper tantrum over the devo betrayal.

Did it make any difference given Lab had 4 months left to call an election? No, **** all difference, Thatch was coming anyway.

Hope that helps.

[Berwickhibby]

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Oh god, not this again.

Should the SNP have voted with the Tories? - No, obviously not. It was essentially a temper tantrum over the devo betrayal.

Did it make any difference given Lab had 4 months left to call an election? No, **** all difference, Thatch was coming anyway.

Hope that helps.

I was originally responding to MY who raised the subject suggesting the incident was unsubstantiated…when it’s actually a fact.

[ronaldo7]

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Deflect deflect …. Not the SNP … look over there it’s all their fault….I also mentioned on my original response about Labour and liberal MPs crossing the chamber along with the Tartan Tories

I never said it wasn't the SNP, however they weren't alone. If only Callaghan was a sharper mover and shaker we wouldnt have got the red Tories.

Count from 1 to 13, and see if you pass 11. 😂😂

[Since90+2]

If I was now part of running EC the first thing I would do is fix the absolute shambolic mess the SNP lead council have the roads in. Get that sorted first and they will hopefully get some goodwill from residents of the city.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Oh god, not this again.

Should the SNP have voted with the Tories? - No, obviously not. It was essentially a temper tantrum over the devo betrayal.

Did it make any difference given Lab had 4 months left to call an election? No, **** all difference, Thatch was coming anyway.

Hope that helps.

That's what I remember. Had Labour not derailed the devolution vote with the 40% amendment from the right honourable member for Islington then the SNP MPs would probably have voted with Labour or abstained.

Labour, reap what you sow.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I was originally responding to MY who raised the subject suggesting the incident was unsubstantiated…when it’s actually a fact.

It's only a fact if you ignore the fact Labour scuppered the devolution vote.

Reap what you sow.

[Just Alf]

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If I was now part of running EC the first thing I would do is fix the absolute shambolic mess the SNP lead council have the roads in. Get that sorted first and they will hopefully get some goodwill from residents of the city.

Agreed, I know roadworks aren't technically ALL the council's fault but there doesn't appear to be any wider co-ordination to prevent diversions etc also being hit with roadworks :-(

[Ozyhibby]

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If I was now part of running EC the first thing I would do is fix the absolute shambolic mess the SNP lead council have the roads in. Get that sorted first and they will hopefully get some goodwill from residents of the city.

Says every council tax payer in every city in the UK.


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[Mr Grieves]

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If I was now part of running EC the first thing I would do is fix the absolute shambolic mess the SNP lead council have the roads in. Get that sorted first and they will hopefully get some goodwill from residents of the city.

TBH I don't think much will change with roads policy in that the best way to solve congestion in Edinburgh is reducing the number of cars on the road. I think there'll be continuing emphasis on active travel/public transport and introduction of an LEZ/other traffic deterring measures,

[Since90+2]

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Says every council tax payer in every city in the UK.


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It's already been shown earlier on this thread that Edinburgh's roads are amongst the worst in the UK and have been for years. I don't know why you can't bring yourself to admit it has been a massive failure of the SNP lead council.