SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Ozyhibby]

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What about scammers who defraud the old and vulnerable out of their life savings.

just stick a tag on their ankle and let them continue scamming on a associates computer.

I’m not saying you don’t keep prison as a last resort. I just think we over use it at the moment.


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[Jack]

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What about scammers who defraud the old and vulnerable out of their life savings.

just stick a tag on their ankle and let them continue scamming on a associates computer.

I agree with you and Ozy!

I think prison, as we know it, should be for crimes that involve violence but add to that crimes of a serious nature.

There are countries in Europe where non dangerous criminals are basically kept in a hostel type jail overnight and at weekends. During what might be described as working hours they are allowed out to carry on their job or in some way repay society for their crime.

Anyway it's probably a debate for another day on a thread of its own if/when it has a chance of becoming a reality.

[Berwickhibby]

So the two coppers who took pictures of a crime scene, which contained murdered victims and shared it with others on a private WhatsApp group, were sent to prison …correct sentence ?

[weecounty hibby]

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So the two coppers who took pictures of a crime scene, which contained murdered victims and shared it with others on a private WhatsApp group, were sent to prison …correct sentence ?

I know you were asking another poster about this but probably. And I think McGarry deserves prison too. She stole money when in a position of trust. I believe some of the money was to be used for charitable donations. Both pretty low acts to be honest. I'm not sure that having a tag on for a few months is that much of a deterrent for stealing 30+k

[Ozyhibby]

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So the two coppers who took pictures of a crime scene, which contained murdered victims and shared it with others on a private WhatsApp group, were sent to prison …correct sentence ?

No, not for me. Not sure the details of that case but sounds like horrific behaviour. That said, it doesn’t sound like either are a danger to the public?
Obviously they lost their jobs. Whatever the prison sentence was though could easily be served at home under house arrest. The money saved could be used for proper rehabilitation programmes. Meanwhile after an appropriate period the restrictions on their sentence can be eased to allow them to find jobs and start contributing to society again. It also allows their family life to continue (in a very limited way). The costs of family breakdown due to prison can be spread over a child’s lifetime.


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[Ozyhibby]

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I know you were asking another poster about this but probably. And I think McGarry deserves prison too. She stole money when in a position of trust. I believe some of the money was to be used for charitable donations. Both pretty low acts to be honest. I'm not sure that having a tag on for a few months is that much of a deterrent for stealing 30+k

The tag can be on for a few years if it’s felt appropriate. It is a significant restriction of liberty. Imagine being told you can only leave the house to go to work for 3 years?


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[Berwickhibby]

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I know you were asking another poster about this but probably. And I think McGarry deserves prison too. She stole money when in a position of trust. I believe some of the money was to be used for charitable donations. Both pretty low acts to be honest. I'm not sure that having a tag on for a few months is that much of a deterrent for stealing 30+k

My point is similar…position of trust broken … she initially pleaded guilty, got a custodial which would include a reduction for her plea…changed her mind, as I don’t think she was expecting a prison sentence…at the very least the courts will remove the reduction and she will serve the recommended tariff

[weecounty hibby]

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No, not for me. Not sure the details of that case but sounds like horrific behaviour. That said, it doesn’t sound like either are a danger to the public?
Obviously they lost their jobs. Whatever the prison sentence was though could easily be served at home under house arrest. The money saved could be used for proper rehabilitation programmes. Meanwhile after an appropriate period the restrictions on their sentence can be eased to allow them to find jobs and start contributing to society again. It also allows their family life to continue (in a very limited way). The costs of family breakdown due to prison can be spread over a child’s lifetime.


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Again you are correct in that they probably aren't a danger to society but they were in a position of trust and power and abused both of these to take pictures of two dead bodies and share them about on WhatsApp. A wee bit of house arrest isn't a deterrent in my opinion. Yes they lost their jobs but that is a disciplinary matter at work rather than a legal matter and shouldn't be seen as an addition to the legal route.

[Ozyhibby]

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Again you are correct in that they probably aren't a danger to society but they were in a position of trust and power and abused both of these to take pictures of two dead bodies and share them about on WhatsApp. A wee bit of house arrest isn't a deterrent in my opinion. Yes they lost their jobs but that is a disciplinary matter at work rather than a legal matter and shouldn't be seen as an addition to the legal route.

Deterrence is over rated. Nobody ever thinks they are going to get caught. If deterrence worked, you would have no murder in America.
It’s not a wee bit of house arrest. It can be a long sentence if need be.


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[James310]

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My point is similar…position of trust broken … she initially pleaded guilty, got a custodial which would include a reduction for her plea…changed her mind, as I don’t think she was expecting a prison sentence…at the very least the courts will remove the reduction and she will serve the recommended tariff

How can you plead guilty get a custodial sentence and then just change your mind? I assume that's allowed but sounds bizarre.

[Berwickhibby]

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How can you plead guilty get a custodial sentence and then just change your mind? I assume that's allowed but sounds bizarre.

She appealed her conviction at the court of session claiming she had received poor/wrong legal advice, amazingly she won.

[Stairway 2 7]

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So the two coppers who took pictures of a crime scene, which contained murdered victims and shared it with others on a private WhatsApp group, were sent to prison …correct sentence ?

No and same with this woman. The need punished financially and should be tagged and in there house say 6pm to 6am. Take there liberty another way.

Prisons do not work. They don't rehabilitate, they make people into criminals. It's an old fashioned view. We should be following Scandinavia and not the US.

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61427216

I see that the SNP creation of Police Scotland is costing us taxpayers another £1 million.

A drop in the ocean compared £50 million on the Rangers debacle I suppose.

[CropleyWasGod]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61427216

I see that the SNP creation of Police Scotland is costing us taxpayers another £1 million.

A drop in the ocean compared £50 million on the Rangers debacle I suppose.

Pretty sure those attitudes would have been the same if it had remained as Lothian and Borders. The result wouldn't have been any different.

[Ozyhibby]

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Pretty sure those attitudes would have been the same if it had remained as Lothian and Borders. The result wouldn't have been any different.

Besides, Police Scotland can point to crime being 60% lower in Scotland than in England and Wales to claim that overall, they are doing a good job.


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[lapsedhibee]

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Pretty sure those attitudes would have been the same if it had remained as Lothian and Borders.

SNP have been in power for 15 years. Shirley it's their fault that sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and sectarianism haven't been entirely stamped out of society by now?

[Keith_M]

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SNP have been in power for 15 years. Shirley it's their fault that sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and sectarianism haven't been entirely stamped out of society by now?

Could any party completely stamp out things like that from society?

I'm not keen on the Tories but I don't blame them for the existence of racism and misogyny in society.

I agree, though, that they (both) could do more.

[Berwickhibby]

My disappointment is not with the Government, it’s the system that awards almost £1m of taxpayers Money for sexist behaviour within the firearms unit, but officers who have received life changing injuries whilst on duty get cast with a fraction of that amount.

[Jack]

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SNP have been in power for 15 years. Shirley it's their fault that sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and sectarianism haven't been entirely stamped out of society by now?

Westminster has been on the go for centuries and such things are apparently worse than they've ever been with the institution itself at the centre of it!

[Jack]

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My disappointment is not with the Government, it’s the system that awards almost £1m of taxpayers Money for sexist behaviour within the firearms unit, but officers who have received life changing injuries whilst on duty get cast with a fraction of that amount.

Was the firearms thing not the failure of a number of individuals rather than the system?

[Berwickhibby]

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Was the firearms thing not the failure of a number of individuals rather than the system?

Still a system, which allows huge sums to be paid out for poor behaviour within an institution but allows injured officers and military personnel to scrap for nothing. Please note not I do not point the finger at the Scottish Government for this, it happens through out the UK

[Moulin Yarns]

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Still a system, which allows huge sums to be paid out for poor behaviour within an institution but allows injured officers and military personnel to scrap for nothing. Please note not I do not point the finger at the Scottish Government for this, it happens through out the UK

I'm pretty sure the case was one of constructive dismissal on the grounds of sexual discrimination. That's covered by strong legislation. Someone injured in the line of duty will have other avenues to go down for claiming compensation.

[Berwickhibby]

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I'm pretty sure the case was one of constructive dismissal on the grounds of sexual discrimination. That's covered by strong legislation. Someone injured in the line of duty will have other avenues to go down for claiming compensation.

She was not dismissed she managed to leave under Ill health due to stress and was granted an Ill health pension

[Moulin Yarns]

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She was not dismissed she managed to leave under Ill health due to stress and was granted an Ill health pension

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61449144


https://news.stv.tv/scotland/ex-firearms-officer-says-1m-police-payout-will-not-make-up-for-pain



Industrial tribunal ruling

[McD]

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She was not dismissed she managed to leave under Ill health due to stress and was granted an Ill health pension

constructive dismissal isn’t actually being dismissed, it’s where someone’s unemployment is made untenable through the actions of their employer, which is what happened here. That’s how it went to employment tribunal


i agree separately with your point about someone injured in the line of duty though

[ronaldo7]

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Was the firearms thing not the failure of a number of individuals rather than the system?

Yup.

Male police officers. There'll still be some in post.

They'll be gutted she won her award. Well done, I say.

It might shine a bit of light on the misogynists in the police.

[Berwickhibby]

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Yup.

Male police officers. There'll still be some in post.

They'll be gutted she won her award. Well done, I say.

It might shine a bit of light on the misogynists in the police.

I am pleased she won her case but I find the compensation amount disgusting compared to what others received, my former colleague got shot in the face which blinded him for life, this effected his mental health, he self medicated with alcohol, his marriage collapsed and he committed suicide … his compensation award was not even a 20th of that figure.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I am pleased she won her case but I find the compensation amount disgusting compared to what others received, my former colleague got shot in the face which blinded him for life, this effected his mental health, he self medicated with alcohol, his marriage collapsed and he committed suicide … his compensation award was not even a 20th of that figure.

I'm sorry to hear about your colleague, but I'm guessing he was a victim of crime rather than his employer.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I am pleased she won her case but I find the compensation amount disgusting compared to what others received, my former colleague got shot in the face which blinded him for life, this effected his mental health, he self medicated with alcohol, his marriage collapsed and he committed suicide … his compensation award was not even a 20th of that figure.

https://www.polfed.org/northyorks/about-us/injury-on-duty/


The second paragraph leaps out. Plus ambulance chasing lawyers will fight for compensation.

The policewoman who suffered mental health issues because of the misogyny and sexual discrimination left the police because she was unable to continue under the conditions she faced so took the police to to an industrial tribunal, perhaps others should as well.


Obviously none of that is laid at the door of the Scottish Government but is endemic in police forces across the UK.

[Berwickhibby]

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https://www.polfed.org/northyorks/about-us/injury-on-duty/


The second paragraph leaps out. Plus ambulance chasing lawyers will fight for compensation.

The policewoman who suffered mental health issues because of the misogyny and sexual discrimination left the police because she was unable to continue under the conditions she faced so took the police to to an industrial tribunal, perhaps others should as well.


Obviously none of that is laid at the door of the Scottish Government but is endemic in police forces across the UK.

If your final sentence is aimed at me then I already stated earlier that I do not point the finger at the Scottish Government, it’s the system which allows excessive payouts of tax payers money to some and not for others who imho suffered with greater injuries