SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Ozyhibby]

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There is an irony here that Norway are held up as an example of why Scotland should be independent, but when its suggested we follow their lead its not workable !

I know this is a small thing in the bigger scheme of things, but this is an example where different thinking is required.

I get that boats need looking after, but accommodation and gyms on board for the few when you could have that on shore just doesnt make sense.

I’m saying copy Norway.


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[ronaldo7]

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Not my link but it's up to you and overall not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things

👍.

Sorry, I thought it was yours. 😮

Apologies, it's been a long day. 😉

[Ozyhibby]

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I think I should probably point out there's a few indy/snp supporters arguing that these ferries are overpriced... its really not a case of snp can do no bad so nothing to see here as is some times made out.

I’m struggling how anyone could see this as a constitutional issue?


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[weecounty hibby]

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I’m struggling how anyone could see this as a constitutional issue?


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Totally agree, but it is being used by some as a"Scotland can't possibly govern itself because if this fiasco" by a lot of people. Mostly people who want to keep us tied to a government who has wasted billions on tack and trace, HS2 massively overspent, ditto Crossrail, ditto aircraft carriers, spent £50m on a ferry company that didn't actually have any ferries, 900k on a bridge survey that every expert told them couldn't be done etc etc. The ferry issue has Ben handled badly and the government should be accountable but ffs let's get it in perspective. The BBC in Scotland have been leading with this and following the FM about for a fortnight now which would be fine if they held others to that same standard

[WhileTheChief..]

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Interesting that you've picked out this crossing, as it's the only one to offer food. The rest of the ferries only offer tea, coffee, and snacks as far as I can see.

Pesky Scots, wanting better services for their cash. 😆

Not so much that I picked it, it was what they were discussing on the news on the radio.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Self service cafeteria style restaraunts that people actually use. Let’s not try to pretend there’s full silver service going on.

Are you meaning on the existing boats or the new ones?

[marinello59]

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Are you meaning on the existing boats or the new ones?

That’s what you get in the existing boats.

[He's here!]

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So there absolutely zero need for on board accommodation. And if this was run by a private business that had to make money, there wouldn’t be.


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I'd imagine there is a requirement for some on-board accommodation to cater for staff who may be seconded on to these boats but don't live within commuting distance? Plus there will be maintenance required while in port, but it's the scale of the staff facilities (including gyms?!) which seems excessive for such relatively short routes.

FWIW I once got the ferry to Colonsay regularly for a work contract and the on-board staff were all local folk.

[WhileTheChief..]

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That’s what you get in the existing boats.

So the guy on the news was asking why we need to move from this to the fancy catering with over 50 staff.

If there's no silver service now, we don't need it in the future, do we?!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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So the guy on the news was asking why we need to move from this to the fancy catering with over 50 staff.

If there's no silver service now, we don't need it in the future, do we?!!

I didn't hear the guy on the news.

did he confirm that there would be silver service on both new ferries?

did he say there was to be 50 staff on each ferry, or in total?

did he mention the 40% increase in space that would help expand the economies of Jura and Islay?

[marinello59]

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So the guy on the news was asking why we need to move from this to the fancy catering with over 50 staff.

If there's no silver service now, we don't need it in the future, do we?!!

Has anybody said that Cal Mac are going to be providing silver service dining? These ferries are for the Islay crossing which takes two hours, there has to be some form of catering, I’d imagine the offering will be pretty much in line with what it is now. There certainly won’t be over 50 staff employed in hospitality services on board. Somebody is making stuff up to suit their own argument. (Not you I hasten to add.)
Passengers wanting to eat on a long journey and crews getting basic gym facilities and a bed of their own whilst they live and work away from home. It’s needless opulence I tell you.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Has anybody said that Cal Mac are going to be providing silver service dining? These ferries are for the Islay crossing which takes two hours, there has to be some form of catering, I’d imagine the offering will be pretty much in line with what it is now. There certainly won’t be over 50 staff employed in hospitality services on board. Somebody is making stuff up to suit their own argument. (Not you I hasten to add.)
Passengers wanting to eat on a long journey and crews getting basic gym facilities and a bed of their own whilst they live and work away from home. It’s needless opulence I tell you.

Why does Norway need 11 staff but us 50. Why do we need catering for a 2 hour journey buy Norwegians don't for longer.

[Jack]

Things have come a long way since Ben-Hur was a galley slave! I wonder if the crew gym even has a rowing machine!!

[Stairway 2 7]

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Things have come a long way since Ben-Hur was a galley slave! I wonder if the crew gym even has a rowing machine!!

I'm sure the crew gym doesn't make it double the price. More needing catering for 2 hour journeys and multiple times the staff of Norway

[WhileTheChief..]

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I didn't hear the guy on the news.

did he confirm that there would be silver service on both new ferries?

did he say there was to be 50 staff on each ferry, or in total?

did he mention the 40% increase in space that would help expand the economies of Jura and Islay?

The silver service comment was me being cheeky with marinello!

I think he said 50 for each boat but I could be wrong.

He only talked about the Ardrossan crossing.

He also said something about them being too big for the port there and that they would have difficulty turning or something.

I dunno, it was just something I caught on Drivetime on the way home from work last week. He was some sort of shipping expert that had something to do with ferries!

I'm just passing on what I heard. Happy to accept I maybe picked some info up wrong.

[grunt]

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He also said something about them being too big for the port there and that they would have difficulty turning or something.

Do you really think that someone would have commissioned the design, development and build of a ferry which was "too big" for the port it is intended for ????

[James310]

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Do you really think that someone would have commissioned the design, development and build of a ferry which was "too big" for the port it is intended for ????

https://www.ardrossanherald.com/news...t-ready-ferry/

Ardrossan Harbour: 'no way the port would be ready' for ferry'

North Ayrshire’s Council leader has spoken of a “systemic issue” around the delivery of projects involving ferries.

He said such obstacles have made it “virtually impossible” that Ardrossan will be ready to host the new delay-hit Glen Sannox vessel if it is finally completed next summer.

Council leader Joe Cullinane hit out after councillors probed the possibility of further delays in an estimated £40 million plan to upgrade Ardrossan Harbour, to allow it to host the troubled vessel.

Edit: you are correct the new ferry was designed for the new harbour, but the new harbour looks like it won't be ready.

[Stairway 2 7]

Does it mean the pier upgrade needed due to bigger size? No idea if was planned anyway

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...ry-is-too-big/


This says too big but means by passenger numbers and too many staff

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...xpayer-burden/

Anger as Scotland's ferry fleet deemed too 'big for islands and a taxpayer burden

[LeithMike]

Does the ferry actually need the staff accommodation? Why not just make provision in the ports themselves or do something similar to airlines? I doubt planes are built with staff accommodation and gyms and that airlines just do deals on local accommodation. Surely something similar is possible and more strategic.

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[CropleyWasGod]

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Why does Norway need 11 staff but us 50. Why do we need catering for a 2 hour journey buy Norwegians don't for longer.

Maybe the Norwegians are more comfortable with picnic lunches?





:

[Stairway 2 7]

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Does the ferry actually need the staff accommodation? Why not just make provision in the ports themselves or do something similar to airlines? I doubt planes are built with staff accommodation and gyms and that airlines just do deals on local accommodation. Surely something similar is possible and more strategic.

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With the extra money they could have a state owned hotel at each port

[WhileTheChief..]

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Do you really think that someone would have commissioned the design, development and build of a ferry which was "too big" for the port it is intended for ????

Again, not me saying it, just passing on what was said.

A few links now been posted that appear to say similar.

[LeithMike]

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Do you really think that someone would have commissioned the design, development and build of a ferry which was "too big" for the port it is intended for ????

Yes, absolutely. Public procurement is conducted terribly. Remember the works on Leith walk for trams that never went there? The nimrods that were built then scrapped before going into service? That's just the tip of the iceberg.

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[Ozyhibby]

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Yes, absolutely. Public procurement is conducted terribly. Remember the works on Leith walk for trams that never went there? The nimrods that were built then scrapped before going into service? That's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Public procurement is a total shambles in this country. I think one of the worst offenders is the MoD.


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[TrapperJohn]

Hardly ever post but as a confused independence supporter … What is the Scottish Government playing at?

Rant on:
How can Scotland go from building the Queensferry Crossing to screwing up on the ferries for the Western Isles?

How can Pentland Ferries build and operate a successful ferry from Caithness to Orkney but Calmac/CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t do the same on the Western Isles?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/timeline/

How can Pentland Ferries have MV Pentalina and MV Alfred built for £15M a piece but CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t for £97M, then £200M and still rising?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/new-boat/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Pentalina


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt accept that there are major ferry issues for the Western Isles but reject solutions to the ferry shortage?
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/4061438/transport-scotland-says-it-has-no-plans-to-buy-pentalina-but-it-might-lease-it/


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt continually ignore industry experts?
seatransport.com (designer of MV Pentalina) and their Scots naval designer Dr Stuart Balatyne have made numerous offers to CMAC/CMAL and Scottish Government since 2008 - from royalty free designs, to building a fleet, to using Fergusons and InchGreen.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13169775.shipbuilding-expert-scotland-can-thrive-without-westminster-military-orders/
https://archive.ph/vqSva
https://energy.scottishports.org.uk/ports/inchgreen-dry-dock-and-repair-quay


How long can the ScottishGovt keep deflecting the blame?
https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,comment-the-ferries-fiasco-is-a-coverup-in-plain-sight


Is this sheer incompetence or is this political stubbornness just to stay in power as a devolved govt blaming everyone else or worse…is this some plan to dismantle the desire for an independent Scotland?

Rant off:

A very disillusioned independence supporter.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-60994370

Is this an error on the BBC website? I thought she was jailed for this years ago?

[Steven79]

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Hardly ever post but as a confused independence supporter … What is the Scottish Government playing at?

Rant on:
How can Scotland go from building the Queensferry Crossing to screwing up on the ferries for the Western Isles?

How can Pentland Ferries build and operate a successful ferry from Caithness to Orkney but Calmac/CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t do the same on the Western Isles?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/timeline/

How can Pentland Ferries have MV Pentalina and MV Alfred built for £15M a piece but CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t for £97M, then £200M and still rising?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/new-boat/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Pentalina


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt accept that there are major ferry issues for the Western Isles but reject solutions to the ferry shortage?
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/4061438/transport-scotland-says-it-has-no-plans-to-buy-pentalina-but-it-might-lease-it/


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt continually ignore industry experts?
seatransport.com (designer of MV Pentalina) and their Scots naval designer Dr Stuart Balatyne have made numerous offers to CMAC/CMAL and Scottish Government since 2008 - from royalty free designs, to building a fleet, to using Fergusons and InchGreen.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13169775.shipbuilding-expert-scotland-can-thrive-without-westminster-military-orders/
https://archive.ph/vqSva
https://energy.scottishports.org.uk/ports/inchgreen-dry-dock-and-repair-quay


How long can the ScottishGovt keep deflecting the blame?
https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,comment-the-ferries-fiasco-is-a-coverup-in-plain-sight


Is this sheer incompetence or is this political stubbornness just to stay in power as a devolved govt blaming everyone else or worse…is this some plan to dismantle the desire for an independent Scotland?

Rant off:

A very disillusioned independence supporter.

Since Salmond left the SNP have become rudderless.

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[Crunchie]

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Hardly ever post but as a confused independence supporter … What is the Scottish Government playing at?

Rant on:
How can Scotland go from building the Queensferry Crossing to screwing up on the ferries for the Western Isles?

How can Pentland Ferries build and operate a successful ferry from Caithness to Orkney but Calmac/CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t do the same on the Western Isles?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/timeline/

How can Pentland Ferries have MV Pentalina and MV Alfred built for £15M a piece but CMAL/ScottishGovt can’t for £97M, then £200M and still rising?
https://pentlandferries.co.uk/new-boat/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Pentalina


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt accept that there are major ferry issues for the Western Isles but reject solutions to the ferry shortage?
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands-islands/4061438/transport-scotland-says-it-has-no-plans-to-buy-pentalina-but-it-might-lease-it/


How can CMAL/ScottishGovt continually ignore industry experts?
seatransport.com (designer of MV Pentalina) and their Scots naval designer Dr Stuart Balatyne have made numerous offers to CMAC/CMAL and Scottish Government since 2008 - from royalty free designs, to building a fleet, to using Fergusons and InchGreen.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13169775.shipbuilding-expert-scotland-can-thrive-without-westminster-military-orders/
https://archive.ph/vqSva
https://energy.scottishports.org.uk/ports/inchgreen-dry-dock-and-repair-quay


How long can the ScottishGovt keep deflecting the blame?
https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,comment-the-ferries-fiasco-is-a-coverup-in-plain-sight


Is this sheer incompetence or is this political stubbornness just to stay in power as a devolved govt blaming everyone else or worse…is this some plan to dismantle the desire for an independent Scotland?

Rant off:

A very disillusioned independence supporter.

You're not alone

[He's here!]

'FM accused of cover-up over official's death'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61000088

[Stairway 2 7]

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'FM accused of cover-up over official's death'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61000088

I think it's stretching to blame NS here. Hospitals are unfortunately a dangerous place to be and no country managed infection control during this. She had quite a lot on her plate to be responsible for a single nhs enquiry