The Trans Rights Debate

[McD]

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Ignore your own politics this is very brave.


https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/...0th-march-2022


https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/...amie-wallis-mp

totally agree

[Keith_M]

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Johnson made a brief statement in the commons commending his actions.
And, https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/03/3...-jamie-wallis/

After being criticised for making a trans joke at a drunken party.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/60934099

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.outsports.com/2022/3/30/...uk-transphobia


History is being made on the football pitch today. 👍

[Stairway 2 7]

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https://www.outsports.com/2022/3/30/...uk-transphobia


History is being made on the football pitch today. 👍

They are playing against men good on them, hope they win

[Moulin Yarns]

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They are playing against men good on them, hope they win

I think they are playing the women's team. Dulwich hamlets team are semi professional and the TRUK team are playing their first ever game.

[Stairway 2 7]

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I think they are playing the women's team. Dulwich hamlets team are semi professional and the TRUK team are playing their first ever game.

**** sake. The picture of the woman in the article, why would she want to be up against a girl. With east of Scotland team we played Scotland girls a few ages above. It was rubbish because none of us were going to tackle a girl hard. We were also just clearly faster it was pointless

[lapsedhibee]

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none of us were going to tackle a girl hard

Sexist/chivalrous pig.

[Moulin Yarns]

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**** sake. The picture of the woman in the article, why would she want to be up against a girl. With east of Scotland team we played Scotland girls a few ages above. It was rubbish because none of us were going to tackle a girl hard. We were also just clearly faster it was pointless

https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/dulwichhamlet/news/dhfcw-take-on-trans-radio-at-champion-hill-2691311.html

More information on the game.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Sexist/chivalrous pig.

You need a certain anger or bite to be a good defender. Your just no right if you can use that against a female you're genetically stronger than. Some of them were better footballers than us, but strength and speed is too big a barrier

[Ozyhibby]

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You need a certain anger or bite to be a good defender. Your just no right if you can use that against a female you're genetically stronger than. Some of them were better footballers than us, but strength and speed is too big a barrier

My son plays youth footy and there is a girl his age who he has played against a number of times over the years. They both play centre mid so tend to be directly against each other. She is a fantastic footballer and regularly bested him over the years. However, the last time they played was at the beginning of u14 season and it was clear to see that they wouldn’t be playing again as he bullied her that day and she couldn’t get close to him. She has an excellent future ahead of her in the woman’s game and I’ll be surprised if she doesn’t end up playing for Scotland. My son won’t get anywhere near the professional ranks. The minute he hit puberty, he had huge advantages which were too much for her to overcome despite her being a superior player.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://youtu.be/stnesecG00s


Some of the difficulties and costs of transitioning.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hardly a surprise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028.amp

[CropleyWasGod]

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Hardly a surprise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60947028.amp

Now relented a bit. But still no ban on CT for trans people.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Ignore your own politics this is very brave.


https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/...0th-march-2022


https://www.jamiewallisbridgend.com/...amie-wallis-mp

Well done to him (possibly soon to be her) for going public. I read he was blackmailed by somebody about this matter not so long ago.

He's married with two children. I can't imagine coming to terms with something like that; one can only wonder what's going through the mind of his children. Good luck to all of them, during their difficult journey.

It's also significant that the first trans MP should be a Tory. I have noticed lately that transgenderism was being used by the right as their new culture wars issue: asking Labour politicians to define a woman etc. The Tories thought they could exploit another minority group, whip up public hostility against them and thus entice some of the public into voting against their own best interests. It's the old divide and rule strategy. Entirely cynical on their part, but a convenient distraction from their many scandals. So, how will they play it now? Jamie Wallis has put a spanner in their works with his announcement, and how will his constituents react? Many Tory voters won't be happy with him.

[lapsedhibee]

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Well done to him (possibly soon to be her) for going public. I read he was blackmailed by somebody about this matter not so long ago.

He's married with two children. I can't imagine coming to terms with something like that; one can only wonder what's going through the mind of his children. Good luck to all of them, during their difficult journey.

It's also significant that the first trans MP should be a Tory. I have noticed lately that transgenderism was being used by the right as their new culture wars issue: asking Labour politicians to define a woman etc. The Tories thought they could exploit another minority group, whip up public hostility against them and thus entice some of the public into voting against their own best interests. It's the old divide and rule strategy. Entirely cynical on their part, but a convenient distraction from their many scandals. So, how will they play it now? Jamie Wallis has put a spanner in their works with his announcement, and how will his constituents react? Many Tory voters won't be happy with him.

Could they not just throw him out of the party? For being inconvenient, like Dominic Grieve etc.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Well done to him (possibly soon to be her) for going public. I read he was blackmailed by somebody about this matter not so long ago.

He's married with two children. I can't imagine coming to terms with something like that; one can only wonder what's going through the mind of his children. Good luck to all of them, during their difficult journey.

It's also significant that the first trans MP should be a Tory. I have noticed lately that transgenderism was being used by the right as their new culture wars issue: asking Labour politicians to define a woman etc. The Tories thought they could exploit another minority group, whip up public hostility against them and thus entice some of the public into voting against their own best interests. It's the old divide and rule strategy. Entirely cynical on their part, but a convenient distraction from their many scandals. So, how will they play it now? Jamie Wallis has put a spanner in their works with his announcement, and how will his constituents react? Many Tory voters won't be happy with him.

You sure about this? Conservatives were pretty quick with gay marriage etc.

To suggest that Conservative voters won't be happy with this is pretty insulting.

If people have gender issues, they probably predate any political thoughts by years. Jamie Wallis probably wouldn't have joined the Conservative party if what you say is true.

I've nothing to back this up, but I'd imagine there are just as many trans people vote Conservative as vote Labour / SNP / Greens etc.

I really don't see the connection between who someone votes for and their gender / sexuality.

[CapitalGreen]

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You sure about this? Conservatives were pretty quick with gay marriage etc.

To suggest that Conservative voters won't be happy with this is pretty insulting.

If people have gender issues, they probably predate any political thoughts by years. Jamie Wallis probably wouldn't have joined the Conservative party if what you say is true.

I've nothing to back this up, but I'd imagine there are just as many trans people vote Conservative as vote Labour / SNP / Greens etc.

I really don't see the connection between who someone votes for and their gender / sexuality.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...sgender-rights

[lapsedhibee]

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You sure about this? Conservatives were pretty quick with gay marriage etc.

To suggest that Conservative voters won't be happy with this is pretty insulting.

If people have gender issues, they probably predate any political thoughts by years. Jamie Wallis probably wouldn't have joined the Conservative party if what you say is true.

I've nothing to back this up, but I'd imagine there are just as many trans people vote Conservative as vote Labour / SNP / Greens etc.

I really don't see the connection between who someone votes for and their gender / sexuality.

Going right back to prehistory and the 1967 bill which decriminalised homosexuality, and arguably kicked off all modern equality legislation, "Both the major parties permitted a conscience vote. Labour and Liberal members were mostly in favour, while Conservative members were mostly opposed." (Thatcher voted for the bill though.)

[WhileTheChief..]

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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...sgender-rights

I’ve tried, but I don’t understand this.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I’ve tried, but I don’t understand this.

It suggests that there is a correlation between one's political beliefs and one's attitudes towards trans issues.

For example, those who identify as Tories disagree with almost every statement put to them.

[Stairway 2 7]

Britain and women surprisingly against quite a lot. No surprise everyone against trans women playing female sports and most against them using women's changing rooms

[Hibernia&Alba]

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You sure about this? Conservatives were pretty quick with gay marriage etc.

To suggest that Conservative voters won't be happy with this is pretty insulting.

If people have gender issues, they probably predate any political thoughts by years. Jamie Wallis probably wouldn't have joined the Conservative party if what you say is true.

I've nothing to back this up, but I'd imagine there are just as many trans people vote Conservative as vote Labour / SNP / Greens etc.

I really don't see the connection between who someone votes for and their gender / sexuality.

It's anecdotal of course, but if one is a conservative (lower case c) then by definition that person is less likely to support progressive change. The right wing media is certainly less welcoming of minority groups of all kinds, be they ethnic minorities, immigrants, LGBT etc. The Conservative Party has a history of appealing to people's fears and prejudices against minority groups. Just look at the current government's latest immigration and asylum Bill, led by asylum seeker Priti Patel! They scaremongered against gay men in the 1980s via the infamous 'Section 18' clause in an Education Act. They have demonised unmarried mothers and welfare claimants; then look at the ridiculous xenophobia during the Brexit referendum. There are so many historical examples of their appeals to the mob, and recently they have been angling against transgenders via their fixation upon defining a woman, in an attempt to demean a vulnerable group. They know it's a tactic that works.

[WhileTheChief..]

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It suggests that there is a correlation between one's political beliefs and one's attitudes towards trans issues.

For example, those who identify as Tories disagree with almost every statement put to them.

Yeah, but take the very last statement as an example.

What’s your view if you’re a 70 year old Labour voter?

As a 50 year old Conservative who voted to leave, I agree with pretty much every statement in the list! Now I’m even more confused!

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it's up to women if trans women should use changing rooms, if some don't want penises in their that should surely be respected

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yeah, but take the very last statement as an example.

What’s your view if you’re a 70 year old Labour voter?

As a 50 year old Conservative who voted to leave, I agree with pretty much every statement in the list! Now I’m even more confused!

Not sure why you're confused. It's an opinion poll, canvassing the views of 1688 people. It's not going to accurately reflect the views of absolutely everybody in the country.

Also, the red crosses don't signify "everybody" in that category. They signify a majority.

So you are in the minority. 😉

[WhileTheChief..]

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It's anecdotal of course, but if one is a conservative (lower case c) then by definition that person is less likely to support progressive change. The right wing media is certainly less welcoming of minority groups of all kinds, be they ethnic minorities, immigrants, LGBT etc. The Conservative Party has a history of appealing to people's fears and prejudices against minority groups. Just look at the current government's latest immigration and asylum Bill, led by asylum seeker Priti Patel! They scaremongered against gay men in the 1980s via the infamous 'Section 18' clause in an Education Act. They have demonised unmarried mothers and welfare claimants; then look at the ridiculous xenophobia during the Brexit referendum. There are so many historical examples of their appeals to the mob, and recently they have been angling against transgenders. with their fixation upon defining a woman, in an attempt to demean a vulnerable group. They know it's a tactic to that works.

I'm straying off topic here, but why do so many people from ethnic minorities vote Conservative?

Why are there Conservative MPs with ethnic backgrounds?

This just doesn't add up. I think you're vastly overstating things here or equating the 'right wing media' with the Conservative party.

Ruth Davidson, for example, was hugely popular. Her sexuality didn't do her any harm at all.

[Stairway 2 7]

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Not sure why you're confused. It's an opinion poll, canvassing the views of 1688 people. It's not going to accurately reflect the views of absolutely everybody in the country.

Also, the red crosses don't signify "everybody" in that category. They signify a majority.

So you are in the minority. 😉

Like all you gov polls it's an average of people who actually go online and fill yougov polls.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I'm straying off topic here, but why do so many people from ethnic minorities vote Conservative?

Why are there Conservative MPs with ethnic backgrounds?

This just doesn't add up. I think you're vastly overstating things here or equating the 'right wing media' with the Conservative party.

Ruth Davidson, for example, was hugely popular. Her sexuality didn't do her any harm at all.

I'm reminded of the John Stuart Mill quote that not all conservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are conservative . Similarly, not all conservatives are reactionary (you aren't) but all reactionaries are conservative, hence the name of the party is 'Conservative', a word meaning defending the existing order. That inevitably means prejudice against those outside the mainstream will be more common on the right; when taken to extremes we arrive at the far right.

I wouldn't know why some minorities vote for a party that is at best ambivalent, and at worst hostile to them. Perhaps economic self-interest is a motivation? Those who believe in solidarity don't vote Tory, after all. It isn't a catch all - there are anomalies - but the Tories have a history of distracting voters away from their own wellbeing by scapegoating minority groups. I think they (some Tory politicians and their pals in the media) have been weaponising the trans issue recently, yet now one of their own MPs has announced he is transsexual, which will, hopefully, make them more sensitive in their tone. I think it might pull the rug from under the Tory right.

[Mcbizz1998]

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Like all you gov polls it's an average of people who actually go online and fill yougov polls.

Yep - and that takes a certain type of person.