SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Ozyhibby]

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Is 250 million a fair amount to save a few hundred jobs for a couple of years. What other non viable businesses should we save.

While this is a massive error of judgement that should never have happened and was easily predictable, we can’t know if the £250m figure is correct yet.
As we speak, the ferries are only due to cost £206m (the media is forecasting the rest) and if (big if) they actually get completed for that then I guess you have to deduct the £100m they were originally forecast to cost. The loss then to the taxpayer comes in at about £110m. A massive amount and it shouldn’t have happpened but less than we gave away free to Michelle Mone.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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While this is a massive error of judgement that should never have happened and was easily predictable, we can’t know if the £250m figure is correct yet.
As we speak, the ferries are only due to cost £206m (the media is forecasting the rest) and if (big if) they actually get completed for that then I guess you have to deduct the £100m they were originally forecast to cost. The loss then to the taxpayer comes in at about £110m. A massive amount and it shouldn’t have happpened but less than we gave away free to Michelle Mone.


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It's not one against the other, both are unbelievable waste of public funds. There has to be sackings

[grunt]

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It's not one against the other, both are unbelievable waste of public funds. There has to be sackings

LOL. The UK Gov wrote off £4.8billion in covid loans and no one got sacked. They spent £12billion on PPE 80% of which was unusable or surplus to requirements. This is chicken feed.

[Stairway 2 7]

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LOL. The UK Gov wrote off £4.8billion in covid loans and no one got sacked. They spent £12billion on PPE 80% of which was unusable or surplus to requirements. This is chicken feed.

Once again more they did that so who cares what we did. The uk government should be jailed for a multitude of reasons but we expect that from them. If you only compare yourself to them you can get away with a lot. Do you not want and expect better from scot gov, or are you just going to come back with so what when they did this

[WhileTheChief..]

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I’m no fan of this deal at all, I think it was foolish for the govt to get involved with in the first place, but even I was surprised by the fact that the last shipyard on the Clyde was not actually capable of building boats.
There is not much call for shipyards like that these days so I expect that yard to close the minute those ferries are ready or they admit defeat and mothball them.


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There was an expert talking about this on Radio Scotland yesterday.

He was saying the boats are totally wrong and not fit for purpose.

For example, apparently, they can hold up to 1000 passengers but the Ardrossan ferry has never carried more than 300.

There is sleeping accommodation for up to 50 crew members when none is required for a 50 minute journey

They are the wrong height for the docks in Ardrossan

etc etc

[H18 SFR]

Teachers side vote overwhelmingly to accept pay offer relating to April 2021 (80%). They’ve accepted 1.22% with a 1% uplift from January 2022. They said they’d ballot strike at anything under 3% so a total capitulation on the union’s side. The Scot Gov will never take them seriously for the wage rise due for this year.

[grunt]

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Once again more they did that so who cares what we did. The uk government should be jailed for a multitude of reasons but we expect that from them. If you only compare yourself to them you can get away with a lot. Do you not want and expect better from scot gov, or are you just going to come back with so what when they did this

"We expect that from them" so that makes it ok?

Yes I do expect better from SG, however I'm willing to find the facts before jumping on the "sack 'em all" bandwagon.

Plus, I'm just asking for some perspective here.

[grunt]

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There was an expert talking about this on Radio Scotland yesterday.

He was saying the boats are totally wrong and not fit for purpose.

For example, apparently, they can hold up to 1000 passengers but the Ardrossan ferry has never carried more than 300.

There is sleeping accommodation for up to 50 crew members when none is required for a 50 minute journey

They are the wrong height for the docks in Ardrossan

etc etc

Do you honestly think that we would have got this far without someone asking these basic questions?

[WhileTheChief..]

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Do you honestly think that we would have got this far without someone asking these basic questions?

Do you honestly think that the expert that Radio Scotland got on, just made this stuff up?

[Stairway 2 7]

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"We expect that from them" so that makes it ok?

Yes I do expect better from SG, however I'm willing to find the facts before jumping on the "sack 'em all" bandwagon.

Plus, I'm just asking for some perspective here.

Saying they should be jailed means I think it makes it OK? The fact a pretty obvious now.

[Kato]

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Do you honestly think that the expert that Radio Scotland got on, just made this stuff up?

Sometimes that does happen.

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[Mon_the_cabbage]

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Do you honestly think that the expert that Radio Scotland got on, just made this stuff up?

Well he appears to have made the bit about crew accommodation up?

You state he said "There is sleeping accommodation for up to 50 crew members when none is required for a 50 minute journey"

CalMac operate an Onshore/Offshore shift pattern so crew members do need sleeping quarters.

[grunt]

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Do you honestly think that the expert that Radio Scotland got on, just made this stuff up?

Did I say that they had made it up? No. I questioned whether you thought that these basic questions would not have previously been considered in a multi-million pound programme of work.

[grunt]

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Saying they should be jailed means I think it makes it OK? The fact a pretty obvious now.

Sorry, you're right and I missed that you said that. We agree. They should be jailed.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Well he appears to have made the bit about crew accommodation up?

You state he said "There is sleeping accommodation for up to 50 crew members when none is required for a 50 minute journey"

CalMac operate an Onshore/Offshore shift pattern so crew members do need sleeping quarters.

Most of the 50 crew members are catering staff.

It's a 50 min crossing. Why is that needed is the point I think he was making.

I'll bow out, I ain't no shipping expert compared to you guys!

[ronaldo7]

I heard Jim McColl on the radio this morning saying he never signed the contract. Turns out he did actually sign the contract. Maybe he was just making it all up.

CMAL CEO, Tom Docherty signed the contract also. (Not sure if he's in the SNP though).

https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1508791734918123530

[Mon_the_cabbage]

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Most of the 50 crew members are catering staff.

It's a 50 min crossing. Why is that needed is the point I think he was making.

I'll bow out, I ain't no shipping expert compared to you guys!

I'm no shipping expert either but I do know that CalMac crew live onboard for a number of weeks as part of their shift pattern which is contrary to the false statement you repeated that no crew accommodation is required.

[ronaldo7]

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Most of the 50 crew members are catering staff.

It's a 50 min crossing. Why is that needed is the point I think he was making.

I'll bow out, I ain't no shipping expert compared to you guys!

Maybe they were kitting it out for when we get back into the EU, for the route from Rosyth to Europe.

Forward thinking.

[JeMeSouviens]

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There was an expert talking about this on Radio Scotland yesterday.

He was saying the boats are totally wrong and not fit for purpose.

For example, apparently, they can hold up to 1000 passengers but the Ardrossan ferry has never carried more than 300.

There is sleeping accommodation for up to 50 crew members when none is required for a 50 minute journey

They are the wrong height for the docks in Ardrossan

etc etc

The current Arran ferry is this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Caledonian_Isles

110 cars/1000 passengers max. The new one is 127/1000. I think the overall size is dictated by the car decks more than passenger capacity?

The harbour at Ardrossan is meant to be closing soon to get upgraded. The Arran ferry will run from Troon while that's done.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Maybe they were kitting it out for when we get back into the EU, for the route from Rosyth to Europe.

Forward thinking.

Replacing P&O?!

[ronaldo7]

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Replacing P&O?!

They'll be paying more than the minimum wage anyway.

[WhileTheChief..]

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The current Arran ferry is this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Caledonian_Isles

110 cars/1000 passengers max. The new one is 127/1000. I think the overall size is dictated by the car decks more than passenger capacity?

The harbour at Ardrossan is meant to be closing soon to get upgraded. The Arran ferry will run from Troon while that's done.

Thanks. The current crew is only 26. If they have built sleeping accom for 50+ crew that does seem a bit OTT.

Seems like this is a really touchy subject so I'm treading carefully here. I thought Radio Scotland was generally a good source of info for most of you on here but apparently not in this case!!

[ronaldo7]

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Thanks. The current crew is only 26. If they have built sleeping accom for 50+ crew that does seem a bit OTT.

Seems like this is a really touchy subject so I'm treading carefully here. I thought Radio Scotland was generally a good source of info for most of you on here but apparently not in this case!!

Hot Bunking is not something you want to do in this day and age.

[JimBHibees]

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Do you honestly think that the expert that Radio Scotland got on, just made this stuff up?

Wouldn't rule it out can remember the BBC putting on live tv a guy who was in reception for an interview for a completely unrelated job to what he was asked to speak about

[He's here!]

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It's not one against the other, both are unbelievable waste of public funds. There has to be sackings

Bearing in mind nobody appears to have been answerable for the Scottish government admitting they acted unlawfully over the investigation into the Salmond sexual harassment claims, it's unlikely a single head will roll over this. The blame has basically been lumped on the long-departed Derek Mackay.

Said it earlier, but for as long as the 'another referendum is coming (honest)' blanket can be used to smother the critics, nobody from the SG will be held up to serious scrutiny over screw-ups like the ferries fiasco:

The SNP know they're incompetent. It's why they keep talking about independence (telegraph.co.uk)

Such tactics may not wash so readily once it finally dawns on the faithful that there's zero chance of another referendum in 2023.

[grunt]

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The SNP know they're incompetent. It's why they keep talking about independence (telegraph.co.uk)

The Telegraph!!

I know it's petty of me, but anyone who links to the Tories in-house newspaper as evidence for their viewpoint has forfeited the argument IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

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Bearing in mind nobody appears to have been answerable for the Scottish government admitting they acted unlawfully over the investigation into the Salmond sexual harassment claims, it's unlikely a single head will roll over this. The blame has basically been lumped on the long-departed Derek Mackay.

Said it earlier, but for as long as the 'another referendum is coming (honest)' blanket can be used to smother the critics, nobody from the SG will be held up to serious scrutiny over screw-ups like the ferries fiasco:

The SNP know they're incompetent. It's why they keep talking about independence (telegraph.co.uk)

Such tactics may not wash so readily once it finally dawns on the faithful that there's zero chance of another referendum in 2023.

Are the SNP incompetent though? They appear to be the most competent govt in the UK just now?


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[Kato]

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The Telegraph!!

I know it's petty of me, but anyone who links to the Tories in-house newspaper as evidence for their viewpoint has forfeited the argument IMO.

Russian financed in-house Tory paper.

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[Jack]

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Are the SNP incompetent though? They appear to be the most competent govt in the UK just now?


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The SNP have certainly made mistakes and public money has been misspent. I think the huge difference between them and the current incumbents at Westminster is intent which is why the SNP is given easy/easier ride by those who vote for them.

[Ozyhibby]

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The SNP have certainly made mistakes and public money has been misspent. I think the huge difference between them and the current incumbents at Westminster is intent which is why the SNP are given easy/easier ride by those who vote for them.

Certainly not given an easier ride by the media? The £250m for ferries is chicken feed to what is being wasted elsewhere even this week but it’s all we here about in the news. Michelle Mone barely rates a mention in the news.


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