SNP are lying b******s as well !

[weecounty hibby]

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These aren’t nationalised industries though, they are nationalised companies that are competing with private companies. In the case of Prestwick, there is a reason it needed saving. It’s an airport that is too far away from any population centres and it’s competing with two bigger airports in the two biggest population centres in Scotland. If it’s problems were only short term then it would have been sold by now. As for Ferguson Marine, it looks like we have saved a shipyard that can’t build boats. We’re those jobs worth saving? Thankfully we seem to have learned a lesson there and the latest order for ferries went to somewhere that can.
Scotrail is a bit different in that it’s a natural monopoly so it’s possible to run it properly but it needs done at arms length from govt. There are plenty example of nationalised railways done properly but they all need govt subsidy of one form or another.


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I think we are in agreement

[Sergio sledge]

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Not sure which of the SNP threads this belongs on but I think that no matter how strong anyone's allegiance to te Scottish government, most would agree this is a screw-up of hefty (and clearly ongoing) proportions:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60837254

Considering some of the hoops small firms have to jump through to get onto public sector tender lists and the, sometimes expensive and over specified, insurances and bonds that have to be in place in order to be awarded contracts it seems completely ridiculous that a contract was entered into without the required guarantees in place to protect the client. Who in their right mind goes into a contract of that size without being contractually secure?

[Berwickhibby]

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Considering some of the hoops small firms have to jump through to get onto public sector tender lists and the, sometimes expensive and over specified, insurances and bonds that have to be in place in order to be awarded contracts it seems completely ridiculous that a contract was entered into without the required guarantees in place to protect the client. Who in their right mind goes into a contract of that size without being contractually secure?

Err the Scottish Government

[CapitalGreen]

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Err the Scottish Government

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topic...ticles/z7dyvk7

[Berwickhibby]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topic...ticles/z7dyvk7

Very good… nice piece of deflection

So what now? This order is projecting to be at least £153million over budget. That is £500,000 per job. Is the business really saved? Are the jobs really saved? Why has the order for 2 more ferries gone to Turkey?

[Ozyhibby]

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Very good… nice piece of deflection

So what now? This order is projecting to be at least £153million over budget. That is £500,000 per job. Is the business really saved? Are the jobs really saved? Why has the order for 2 more ferries gone to Turkey?

It’s a balls up, plain and simple. The jobs are not saved as it’s hard to see why anyone would ask that yard to ever build a boat for them now. They have no chance of ever getting UK govt work while it’s owned by the SG. The minute these ferries are eventually finished I think this yard will be closed. This was a stupid idea from day one and plenty people said so.
As for the last question, I would have thought it was obvious?


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[Moulin Yarns]

I hope people are aware that the wiring which is not fit for purpose and needing replacing was complete before the Scottish Government became involved.

[Steven79]

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I hope people are aware that the wiring which is not fit for purpose and needing replacing was complete before the Scottish Government became involved.

When did that ever stop critics of the SNP.

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[Skol]

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I hope people are aware that the wiring which is not fit for purpose and needing replacing was complete before the Scottish Government became involved.

And as I understand it, it they were fit for purpose when installed. design changes made after the cables were installed meant they were no longer fit for purpose to the new design.

[Berwickhibby]

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And as I understand it, it they were fit for purpose when installed. design changes made after the cables were installed meant they were no longer fit for purpose to the new design.

But when did that ever stop some supporters of the SNP

[Just Alf]

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But when did that ever stop supporters of the SNP

Literally in the 10 posts or so before yours there's SNP supporters saying the government got it wrong?

Edit: Apologies, I'm guessing you mean 'some' .. and on that I agree, its clear to see with some supporters of the other parties as well. There's always some

[Berwickhibby]

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Literally in the 10 posts or so before yours there's SNP supporters saying the government got it wrong?

Edit: Apologies, I'm guessing you mean 'some' .. and on that I agree, its clear to see with some supporters of the other parties as well. There's always some

Edited to some as you are absolutely correct

[He's here!]

Derek Mackay seems to be getting the blame:

Nicola Sturgeon ‘throwing Derek Mackay under the bus’ after blaming him for ferry fiasco | Scotland | The Times

The pics of one of the unfinished ferries being 'launched' with painted-on windows is especially cringeworthy.

[Berwickhibby]

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Derek Mackay seems to be getting the blame:

Nicola Sturgeon ‘throwing Derek Mackay under the bus’ after blaming him for ferry fiasco | Scotland | The Times

The pics of one of the unfinished ferries being 'launched' with painted-on windows is especially cringeworthy.

I wonder if it’s a school bus 🤭🤭

[James310]

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These aren’t nationalised industries though, they are nationalised companies that are competing with private companies. In the case of Prestwick, there is a reason it needed saving. It’s an airport that is too far away from any population centres and it’s competing with two bigger airports in the two biggest population centres in Scotland. If it’s problems were only short term then it would have been sold by now. As for Ferguson Marine, it looks like we have saved a shipyard that can’t build boats. We’re those jobs worth saving? Thankfully we seem to have learned a lesson there and the latest order for ferries went to somewhere that can.
Scotrail is a bit different in that it’s a natural monopoly so it’s possible to run it properly but it needs done at arms length from govt. There are plenty example of nationalised railways done properly but they all need govt subsidy of one form or another.


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The Scottish Government will be praying nothing goes wrong with the Lochaber Smelter plant, they are on the hook for nearly £600M in guarantees if it does.

The Ferry's and Prestwick would be small fry compared to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59332620


"They came up with something called "Project Boots", in which investors would buy bonds in return for guaranteed quarterly payments.

What was unusual about this transaction was that the Scottish government was also involved - guaranteeing to meet the payments even if the power stations broke down or the smelter couldn't afford them.

The Financial Times has fought a two-year freedom of information battle to confirm the size of this "taxpayer guarantee" - and, following intervention from Scotland's information commissioner, the government has revealed the figure to be £586m."

[Kato]

What would the price be if all the devolved Govt's investments came home to roost. £2B? £3?

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[He's here!]

McColl: Ferry contract was awarded for 'political gain':

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...oost-bd7mdlpg9

[Kato]

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McColl: Ferry contract was awarded for 'political gain':

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...oost-bd7mdlpg9

Like the "levelling up" projects favouring constituencies who voted Tory?

I don't see the scandal with this unless both are scandals?

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[He's here!]

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Like the "levelling up" projects favouring constituencies who voted Tory?

I don't see the scandal with this unless both are scandals?

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I guess nothing's ever a scandal if whataboutery can be deployed as the default response.

Yousaf certainly seems to think there's nothing to see here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60886637

[Kato]

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I guess nothing's ever a scandal if whataboutery can be deployed as the default response.

Yousaf certainly seems to think there's nothing to see here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-60886637

It is a scandal by the looks of it. I'm joining in with you, as I said above if any SNP person is guilty of wrongdoing in this they should be taken to task, jailed if need be. You can read what I said above.

If whataboutery means going after other political criminals, like gaslighting rapists, PPE fraudsters, COVID loan fraudsters, MP liars, litigious money launderers, those in cahoots with Putins oligarch minions - surely now is the time to go after them as well. Where is your whataboutery, when whataboutery is very much required these days? If politics is to function as a positive force we need more and consistent whataboutery to get rid of ALL the criminals/incompetents.


They are "loathsome" and "horrible" as well, no? Or is your silence of these elements within the Conservative and Unionist Party tacit support?

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[Ozyhibby]

I’m happy to say that this ferries fiasco is indeed a scandal and there needs to be accountability. What I haven’t seen suggested is anything other than this being a bad decision? There appears to be no suggestion of corruption? I guess in that sense it’s very different from the spending scandals there.


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[Skol]

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I’m happy to say that this ferries fiasco is indeed a scandal and there needs to be accountability. What I haven’t seen suggested is anything other than this being a bad decision? There appears to be no suggestion of corruption? I guess in that sense it’s very different from the spending scandals there.


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There is definitely no whiff off corruption. What’s pretty clear is that a series of bad mistakes have been made with no assessment of the risks.

It’s a good job a full risk assessment of independence has been carried out ;-)

On katos point, I agree there are plenty of Tory issues as well but they should not distract us from holding the Scottish government to account

[Kato]

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There is definitely no whiff off corruption. What’s pretty clear is that a series of bad mistakes have been made with no assessment of the risks.

It’s a good job a full risk assessment of independence has been carried out ;-)

On katos point, I agree there are plenty of Tory issues as well but they should not distract us from holding the Scottish government to account

They aren't.

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[He's here!]

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It is a scandal by the looks of it. I'm joining in with you, as I said above if any SNP person is guilty of wrongdoing in this they should be taken to task, jailed if need be. You can read what I said above.

If whataboutery means going after other political criminals, like gaslighting rapists, PPE fraudsters, COVID loan fraudsters, MP liars, litigious money launderers, those in cahoots with Putins oligarch minions - surely now is the time to go after them as well. Where is your whataboutery, when whataboutery is very much required these days? If politics is to function as a positive force we need more and consistent whataboutery to get rid of ALL the criminals/incompetents.


They are "loathsome" and "horrible" as well, no? Or is your silence of these elements within the Conservative and Unionist Party tacit support?

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Not disagreeing with any of that. The SG's ability to simply throw the comfort blanket of independence over any disquiet though tends to dilute serious criticism, no matter how justified.

This guy's not everyone's favourite writer but he does sum things up well here:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-s-ferry-mess

[Kato]

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Not disagreeing with any of that. The SG's ability to simply throw the comfort blanket of independence over any disquiet though tends to dilute serious criticism, no matter how justified.

This guy's not everyone's favourite writer but he does sum things up well here:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...p-s-ferry-mess

So it's along the lines of the Trams scandal only with less money involved. Brutal. This'll be all over the front pages for months. Like that time Strurgeon disgracefully got mixed up between a Friday and a Monday.

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[lucky]

I’m no fan of the SNP but they stepped in to save the last yard on Clyde and gave it a contract for two ships and then Nationalised the company. Their actions might be politically driven but 300 well paid jobs were saved. Lots of governments help local firms win contracts. The Italian and French governments have done it for years and no one complains about state aid or financial mismanagement. If the U.K. government stepped in and nationalised P&O ferries and reinstated the 800 sacked workers no one would complain

[greenginger]

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I’m no fan of the SNP but they stepped in to save the last yard on Clyde and gave it a contract for two ships and then Nationalised the company. Their actions might be politically driven but 300 well paid jobs were saved. Lots of governments help local firms win contracts. The Italian and French governments have done it for years and no one complains about state aid or financial mismanagement. If the U.K. government stepped in and nationalised P&O ferries and reinstated the 800 sacked workers no one would complain

Fair enough , but these ferries will 5 years late , £200 million over budget , and may never sale .

[Ozyhibby]

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Fair enough , but these ferries will 5 years late , £200 million over budget , and may never sale .

I’m no fan of this deal at all, I think it was foolish for the govt to get involved with in the first place, but even I was surprised by the fact that the last shipyard on the Clyde was not actually capable of building boats.
There is not much call for shipyards like that these days so I expect that yard to close the minute those ferries are ready or they admit defeat and mothball them.


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[He's here!]

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I’m no fan of this deal at all, I think it was foolish for the govt to get involved with in the first place, but even I was surprised by the fact that the last shipyard on the Clyde was not actually capable of building boats.
There is not much call for shipyards like that these days so I expect that yard to close the minute those ferries are ready or they admit defeat and mothball them.


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McColl doing his best to wash his hands of it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60910732

[Stairway 2 7]

Is 250 million a fair amount to save a few hundred jobs for a couple of years. What other non viable businesses should we save.