SNP are lying b******s as well !

[greenginger]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-snp-36lb7dljk

SNP still trying to claim UK would be paying Scottish pensions after independence.

[greenlex]

Yet state pensions continue to be paid to ex pats. Strange one.

[Steven79]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet state pensions continue to be paid to ex pats. Strange one.

I don't understand the difference as how is paying a pension to someone that lived in the UK but not lives in France any different to someone that lives in a Independent Scotland.

In my opinion the UK would cease to exist once we left but that's not what they are claiming...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-snp-36lb7dljk

SNP still trying to claim UK would be paying Scottish pensions after independence.

You're getting upset by an anti-SNP article in The Times?

[Glory Lurker]

Take a share of national debt, you say?

[Paul1642]

That’s because pensions are paid by the current tax payers, not those receiving them (as they paid for the previous generations pension). Basically a big pyramid scheme from what I can gather 😂.

Why would the tax payers of what remain of the UK pay for a separate counties pensions. It’s not like it’s a pot that has had been paid into as you would for private pension. We wouldn’t be paying for the rest of the UKs pensions so it should work out about similar to present for us (depending on our % of pensioners per population compared to the other nations which imagine is similar)

[Jack]

I'm sure it will be one of many things, or everythings, that will be negotiated when the time comes.

I think it's a fairly decent thing for Scotland to have a starting point of saying
Well the UK exchequer pays for all the pensions due to expats and that's what Scottish pensioners will basically become.
rUK will say its your share of pensions.
And so it will be resolved with a bit of give and take.

[Skol]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet state pensions continue to be paid to ex pats. Strange one.

Yeah, cos every ex pat takes the whole tax paying base with them so it’s exactly the same as independence. If you want to believe this nonsense, then fine. But you are in for a shock

[Santa Cruz]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yet state pensions continue to be paid to ex pats. Strange one.

Is it correct the payment they receive is frozen when they leave the country and they don't receive an increase?

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm sure it will be one of many things, or everythings, that will be negotiated when the time comes.

I think it's a fairly decent thing for Scotland to have a starting point of saying
Well the UK exchequer pays for all the pensions due to expats and that's what Scottish pensioners will basically become.
rUK will say its your share of pensions.
And so it will be resolved with a bit of give and take.

Independence is not like becoming an ex pat, it's not like retiring to Spain. If England declared Independence would we treat all the English pensioners as ex pats and Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would keep paying the pensions? Course not.

At the moment Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland contribute 100% of NI to pay for 100% of pensions, Scotland contributes about 8% of that. If Scotland left then there is no chance 92% of people left will keep paying 100% of pensions. If Scotland leave the tax base leaves, that's not the case now for people retiring to Spain.

There was a FOI released today from the Scottish Government saying nothing has changed from 2014, which is upon Independence the responsibility for paying pensions in Scotland is the responsibility of the Scottish Government, and why wouldn't it?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...coming-1986075



Other than confusion I am struggling to see why Ian Blackford brought this up.

https://theferret.scot/treasury-secr...endence-false/

[He's here!]

Not sure it counts as a 'lie' but disappointing to see Mike Russell and Michelle Thomson coming out with this sort of guff in an attempt to politicise the Ukraine crisis (although I see Thomson has subsequently apologised):

https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...-independence/

I was actually quite impressed (for a change) by the SNP's Alyn Smith in the Commons the other day when he made clear that the situation was too serious for the SNP to do anything other than support the government.

[Ozyhibby]

While pensions are paid from current revenue, the amount you receive is based on contributions throughout your working life. I would think that anyone individual who has paid all their contributions to the UK all their life would have no problem winning a case against the UK for payment wherever they lived.
It will all be sorted in negotiations and the SG will make the payments once Indy is achieved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skol]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

While pensions are paid from current revenue, the amount you receive is based on contributions throughout your working life. I would think that anyone individual who has paid all their contributions to the UK all their life would have no problem winning a case against the UK for payment wherever they lived.
It will all be sorted in negotiations and the SG will make the payments once Indy is achieved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which of the two options are you saying it will be as you say we can claim from the uk and will get paid by Scotland. Can’t be both. Well if the snp pull that off then they can have my vote.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Which of the two options are you saying it will be as you say we can claim from the uk and will get paid by Scotland. Can’t be both. Well if the snp pull that off then they can have my vote.

The actuaries will work out what will be due and then a payment will be made to the new SG to help deal with it. The SG will make the payments. It’s not that difficult to work out. There will be all sorts of financial stuff to be negotiated but none of it will affect payments that government has to make, such as wages, pensions, debt interest etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Sure I saw something that the amount that would be raised in contributions in Scotland would cover state pension around 3.5 times over.

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The actuaries will work out what will be due and then a payment will be made to the new SG to help deal with it. The SG will make the payments. It’s not that difficult to work out. There will be all sorts of financial stuff to be negotiated but none of it will affect payments that government has to make, such as wages, pensions, debt interest etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As you say yourself they are paid from current revenues i.e. taxes. As there is no pot then I don't see what they can work out and make a payment from if no pot exists. There is working balance of around a couple of months payment so maybe something from that, but that would be minimal.

Not often I would do this but the SG position is clear at the moment (or was) that pensions will be paid by the SG and that's it. To start saying it will be negotiated or you can sue the UK Government (under what law I have no idea) is maybe not the winning strategy some might think it is.

As the FOI makes clear, there has been no change in policy.

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sure I saw something that the amount that would be raised in contributions in Scotland would cover state pension around 3.5 times over.

That's not the case, where is your source for this?

National Insurance pays for more than just pensions, it pays for lots of other benefits as well.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As you say yourself they are paid from current revenues i.e. taxes. As there is no pot then I don't see what they can work out and make a payment from if no pot exists. There is working balance of around a couple of months payment so maybe something from that, but that would be minimal.

Not often I would do this but the SG position is clear at the moment (or was) that pensions will be paid by the SG and that's it. To start saying it will be negotiated or you can sue the UK Government (under what law I have no idea) is maybe not the winning strategy some might think it is.

As the FOI makes clear, there has been no change in policy.

I agree totally that the SG just needs to say that all pensions will be paid by them and leave it at that. No point conducting negotiations before a vote.
In fact they should offer a pension rise as well. A commitment to bring it up to the EU average should be a key commitment.
Pointless getting into the mechanics of it all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it correct the payment they receive is frozen when they leave the country and they don't receive an increase?

Depends where they move to.

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Depends where they move to.

Yep,

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-state-pension

[JeMeSouviens]

UK pensions have nothing to do with citizenship, if you have paid enough NI in your life, you are eligible.

If rUK wants to stop paying pensions to people in iScotland who formerly paid NI in UK they will have to change the rules. Which they may well do, who knows?

Ultimately it’s a pointless argument. iScotland will of course have an ongoing need to pay its own pensions and will do so as required.

[greenginger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Take a share of national debt, you say?

Yep , Scotland will have to take their share.

Some might even suggest the Barnet formula should be applied, extra 10% or thereabouts on to Scotland’s share.

[matty_f]

Quite happy to pay for Scottish pensions in an independent Scotland if it meant we had independence.

[James310]

When Nicola Sturgeon published her plans for pensions in a separate Scottish state, she assumed that the full cost of paying pensions would be met by the Scottish taxpayer.

Nothing at all about UK Government paying for them or any kind of settlement etc. I don't see any world where rUK pays 100% of pensions with 92% of revenue.

https://www.webarchive.org.uk/waybac...2013/09/3492/0

[greenginger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You're getting upset by an anti-SNP article in The Times?

I’m not the least upset !

[Radium]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When Nicola Sturgeon published her plans for pensions in a separate Scottish state, she assumed that the full cost of paying pensions would be met by the Scottish taxpayer.

Nothing at all about UK Government paying for them or any kind of settlement etc. I don't see any world where rUK pays 100% of pensions with 92% of revenue.

https://www.webarchive.org.uk/waybac...2013/09/3492/0

What is the criteria for receiving the pension? Assuming you have contributed and have met a minimum threshold, would it be citizenship/ passport.

It is in the gift of the Westminster government to change the rules but currently they pay pensions to UK contributors who live abroad and have no issue paying pensions to UK contributors who hold dual nationality, NI being an example.

It’s badly thought out but Westminster governments of all creeds have made miscalculations through the years based on things always going their way.

As others have said, it would be about negotiating the financial settlement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What is the criteria for receiving the pension? Assuming you have contributed and have met a minimum threshold, would it be citizenship/ passport.

It is in the gift of the Westminster government to change the rules but currently they pay pensions to UK contributors who live abroad and have no issue paying pensions to UK contributors who hold dual nationality, NI being an example.

It’s badly thought out but Westminster governments of all creeds have made miscalculations through the years based on things always going their way.

As others have said, it would be about negotiating the financial settlement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have no difficulty paying to single nationalities whose nationality is not British! If they worked and paid NI here, that’s enough.

[James310]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What is the criteria for receiving the pension? Assuming you have contributed and have met a minimum threshold, would it be citizenship/ passport.

It is in the gift of the Westminster government to change the rules but currently they pay pensions to UK contributors who live abroad and have no issue paying pensions to UK contributors who hold dual nationality, NI being an example.

It’s badly thought out but Westminster governments of all creeds have made miscalculations through the years based on things always going their way.

As others have said, it would be about negotiating the financial settlement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The UK as we know it will cease to exist, pensions are a benefit and they can change the rules tomorrow if they wanted, decrease it or increase it or change the age you get it as they have done in the past.

The key thing is the tax base, if pensions cost the UK say £100BN a year now and that's made up contributions of say Scotland £10BN, Wales £5BN, NI £5BN and England £80BN then if Scotland leaves the UK they take their £10BN with them, leaving £90BN in contributions. To suggest those left pay higher taxes to still pay the total bill of £100BN and the pensions of what are essentially people in a foreign country now is just not something I ever see happening and the current Pensions Minister has said that. Remember there is no pot, it's all funded from current taxation.

Things change though, who knows where we will be. I just don't understand why it was Ian Blackford that brought this up again as a point to debate.

[Radium]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The UK as we know it will cease to exist, pensions are a benefit and they can change the rules tomorrow if they wanted, decrease it or increase it or change the age you get it as they have done in the past.

The key thing is the tax base, if pensions cost the UK say £100BN a year now and that's made up contributions of say Scotland £10BN, Wales £5BN, NI £5BN and England £80BN then if Scotland leaves the UK they take their £10BN with them, leaving £90BN in contributions. To suggest those left pay higher taxes to still pay the total bill of £100BN and the pensions of what are essentially people in a foreign country now is just not something I ever see happening and the current Pensions Minister has said that. Remember there is no pot, it's all funded from current taxation.

Things change though, who knows where we will be. I just don't understand why it was Ian Blackford that brought this up again as a point to debate.

… so the negotiations have begun, £10 BN you say.

In essence the consequences for votes in Scotland or Ireland regarding independence are that everything needs to be evaluated and allocated.

There’s a narrative that says that Scotland walks away penniless because it has no share in the benefits of the UK. Bringing this up to my mind questions that thinking.

You’re right, at least two new systems will have to be put in place. Neither will be the UK Treasury.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m not the least upset !

The wording of the thread suggested otherwise.