https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-snp-36lb7dljk
SNP still trying to claim UK would be paying Scottish pensions after independence.![]()
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Thread: SNP are lying b******s as well !
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01-03-2022 06:53 PM #1
SNP are lying b******s as well !
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01-03-2022 07:14 PM #3
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In my opinion the UK would cease to exist once we left but that's not what they are claiming...
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01-03-2022 07:17 PM #4
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01-03-2022 07:25 PM #6
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That’s because pensions are paid by the current tax payers, not those receiving them (as they paid for the previous generations pension). Basically a big pyramid scheme from what I can gather 😂.
Why would the tax payers of what remain of the UK pay for a separate counties pensions. It’s not like it’s a pot that has had been paid into as you would for private pension. We wouldn’t be paying for the rest of the UKs pensions so it should work out about similar to present for us (depending on our % of pensioners per population compared to the other nations which imagine is similar)
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01-03-2022 07:41 PM #7
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I'm sure it will be one of many things, or everythings, that will be negotiated when the time comes.
I think it's a fairly decent thing for Scotland to have a starting point of saying
Well the UK exchequer pays for all the pensions due to expats and that's what Scottish pensioners will basically become.
rUK will say its your share of pensions.
And so it will be resolved with a bit of give and take.
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01-03-2022 07:44 PM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 07:46 PM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 07:53 PM #10
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At the moment Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland contribute 100% of NI to pay for 100% of pensions, Scotland contributes about 8% of that. If Scotland left then there is no chance 92% of people left will keep paying 100% of pensions. If Scotland leave the tax base leaves, that's not the case now for people retiring to Spain.
There was a FOI released today from the Scottish Government saying nothing has changed from 2014, which is upon Independence the responsibility for paying pensions in Scotland is the responsibility of the Scottish Government, and why wouldn't it?
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...coming-1986075
Other than confusion I am struggling to see why Ian Blackford brought this up.
https://theferret.scot/treasury-secr...endence-false/Last edited by James310; 01-03-2022 at 07:59 PM.
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01-03-2022 08:03 PM #11
Not sure it counts as a 'lie' but disappointing to see Mike Russell and Michelle Thomson coming out with this sort of guff in an attempt to politicise the Ukraine crisis (although I see Thomson has subsequently apologised):
https://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...-independence/
I was actually quite impressed (for a change) by the SNP's Alyn Smith in the Commons the other day when he made clear that the situation was too serious for the SNP to do anything other than support the government.
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01-03-2022 08:39 PM #12
While pensions are paid from current revenue, the amount you receive is based on contributions throughout your working life. I would think that anyone individual who has paid all their contributions to the UK all their life would have no problem winning a case against the UK for payment wherever they lived.
It will all be sorted in negotiations and the SG will make the payments once Indy is achieved.
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01-03-2022 08:44 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 08:48 PM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 08:54 PM #15
Sure I saw something that the amount that would be raised in contributions in Scotland would cover state pension around 3.5 times over.
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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01-03-2022 09:02 PM #16
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Not often I would do this but the SG position is clear at the moment (or was) that pensions will be paid by the SG and that's it. To start saying it will be negotiated or you can sue the UK Government (under what law I have no idea) is maybe not the winning strategy some might think it is.
As the FOI makes clear, there has been no change in policy.Last edited by James310; 01-03-2022 at 09:05 PM.
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01-03-2022 09:04 PM #17
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National Insurance pays for more than just pensions, it pays for lots of other benefits as well.
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01-03-2022 09:10 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
In fact they should offer a pension rise as well. A commitment to bring it up to the EU average should be a key commitment.
Pointless getting into the mechanics of it all.
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01-03-2022 09:20 PM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 09:22 PM #20
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https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-state-pension
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01-03-2022 09:30 PM #21
UK pensions have nothing to do with citizenship, if you have paid enough NI in your life, you are eligible.
If rUK wants to stop paying pensions to people in iScotland who formerly paid NI in UK they will have to change the rules. Which they may well do, who knows?
Ultimately it’s a pointless argument. iScotland will of course have an ongoing need to pay its own pensions and will do so as required.
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01-03-2022 09:44 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Some might even suggest the Barnet formula should be applied, extra 10% or thereabouts on to Scotland’s share.
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01-03-2022 09:50 PM #23
Quite happy to pay for Scottish pensions in an independent Scotland if it meant we had independence.
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01-03-2022 09:52 PM #24
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When Nicola Sturgeon published her plans for pensions in a separate Scottish state, she assumed that the full cost of paying pensions would be met by the Scottish taxpayer.
Nothing at all about UK Government paying for them or any kind of settlement etc. I don't see any world where rUK pays 100% of pensions with 92% of revenue.
https://www.webarchive.org.uk/waybac...2013/09/3492/0
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01-03-2022 09:59 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I’m not the least upset !
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01-03-2022 10:03 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It is in the gift of the Westminster government to change the rules but currently they pay pensions to UK contributors who live abroad and have no issue paying pensions to UK contributors who hold dual nationality, NI being an example.
It’s badly thought out but Westminster governments of all creeds have made miscalculations through the years based on things always going their way.
As others have said, it would be about negotiating the financial settlement
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01-03-2022 10:08 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-03-2022 10:16 PM #28
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The key thing is the tax base, if pensions cost the UK say £100BN a year now and that's made up contributions of say Scotland £10BN, Wales £5BN, NI £5BN and England £80BN then if Scotland leaves the UK they take their £10BN with them, leaving £90BN in contributions. To suggest those left pay higher taxes to still pay the total bill of £100BN and the pensions of what are essentially people in a foreign country now is just not something I ever see happening and the current Pensions Minister has said that. Remember there is no pot, it's all funded from current taxation.
Things change though, who knows where we will be. I just don't understand why it was Ian Blackford that brought this up again as a point to debate.Last edited by James310; 01-03-2022 at 10:18 PM.
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01-03-2022 10:41 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
In essence the consequences for votes in Scotland or Ireland regarding independence are that everything needs to be evaluated and allocated.
There’s a narrative that says that Scotland walks away penniless because it has no share in the benefits of the UK. Bringing this up to my mind questions that thinking.
You’re right, at least two new systems will have to be put in place. Neither will be the UK Treasury.
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01-03-2022 10:59 PM #30
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