Coronavirus

[Callum_62]

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His story is so obviously full of rubbish I really hope he gets kicked out. Will send out the completely wrong signal if he isn't.

I hope he gets put in jail to be honest



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[He's here!]

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His story is so obviously full of rubbish I really hope he gets kicked out. Will send out the completely wrong signal if he isn't.

The Der Spiegel investigation into apparent inconsistencies in his PCR test that the Guardian also mentions sounds like it may have some substance to it. Perhaps telling that his camp have declined to comment on it.

[Sir David Gray]

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This has to be applauded. We should financially penalising anti vaccers here. They are causing problems for everyone else and the NHS.

Yep completely agree but it will sadly never happen here.

[Sir David Gray]

Is the worst of Omicron really over?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59958071

[SideBurns]

As someone triple vaxxed, this idea of penalising the unvaxxed makes me uneasy. Not all unvaxxed will be 'anti-vaxxers' - they may just have made a decision they don't want it for themselves. Are we really saying that someone genuinely terrified by the idea of taking a vaccine (not just once, but three times in 6 months) developed in record time that their participation in society isn't just to be limited and restricted, but they should be fined and effectively treated like criminals? And, as we face rising living costs and energy bills, what if that person can't afford the fine - put them in jail?

They might be misguided, foolish, and even selfish. But as we hopefully move from pandemic to endemic relatively soon, surely the unvaxxed will be more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. The elderly & vulnerable will be boosted and protected against serious illness, and maybe that will be the focus from now on. I empathise with those angry with the unvaxxed, but there are enough issues dividing society these days - I was hoping a lesson learned from all this would have been that we might be a bit more tolerant with those holding different views to our own (or the majority, in this case).

[007]

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Djokovic admits breaking isolation rules and submitting false visa information (but blames his agent for a 'paperwork error' and says it's all 'misinformation'):

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ve-test-result

I love the bit where he claims to have shown an 'abundance of caution'...I wonder if the journalist he 'didn't want to let down' was made aware of the (alleged) positive Covid test.

He's a total liar. Even if the not travelled in 14 days thing is a genuine error (which I doubt was genuine), that question is there for a reason so if someone has travelled then are they not permitted entry to the country? Also, the "error of judgement" with the journalist is obviously more BS from someone caught lying. He's now admitted he breached isolation rules on that day so only an idiot would believe he didn't know about being positive the day before and that he'd taken a pcr test for extra caution after a negative lft. Plus, he has avoided giving an explanation around the anomaly of the subsequent dates and the test reference numbers.

[Santa Cruz]

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As someone triple vaxxed, this idea of penalising the unvaxxed makes me uneasy. Not all unvaxxed will be 'anti-vaxxers' - they may just have made a decision they don't want it for themselves. Are we really saying that someone genuinely terrified by the idea of taking a vaccine (not just once, but three times in 6 months) developed in record time that their participation in society isn't just to be limited and restricted, but they should be fined and effectively treated like criminals? And, as we face rising living costs and energy bills, what if that person can't afford the fine - put them in jail?

They might be misguided, foolish, and even selfish. But as we hopefully move from pandemic to endemic relatively soon, surely the unvaxxed will be more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. The elderly & vulnerable will be boosted and protected against serious illness, and maybe that will be the focus from now on. I empathise with those angry with the unvaxxed, but there are enough issues dividing society these days - I was hoping a lesson learned from all this would have been that we might be a bit more tolerant with those holding different views to our own (or the majority, in this case).

Good post. Agree that the unvaxxed won't all be anti vaxxers. I was reading yesterday about a man in his 50's who sadly passed away from covid a few weeks ago. He had a needle phobia and was unaware until he got covid he had an undiagnosed lung condition. Leaving a wife and two young children heartbroken. I've always believed it should be a personal choice, people who haven't taken the vaccine should be encouraged not judged. Will caveat that with as someone classed as high risk, I would like the right to know if anyone treating me was unvaxxed, be that a clinician, dentist or optician.

[lord bunberry]

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The false declaration about his travel is bad enough but bit about the qr code, the paper, the dates and the numbering being lower rather than higher is extremely suspicious and I wouldn't believe a word he says.

Hope they throw the book at him but unfortunately they probably won't. Realistically the best outcome is he doesn't get to play the tournament.

I think the best thing they can do is let him play. He’s an arrogant prick who probably doesn’t realise how unpopular he is, the Aussie crowd will let him know how they feel.

[Onceinawhile]

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As someone triple vaxxed, this idea of penalising the unvaxxed makes me uneasy. Not all unvaxxed will be 'anti-vaxxers' - they may just have made a decision they don't want it for themselves. Are we really saying that someone genuinely terrified by the idea of taking a vaccine (not just once, but three times in 6 months) developed in record time that their participation in society isn't just to be limited and restricted, but they should be fined and effectively treated like criminals? And, as we face rising living costs and energy bills, what if that person can't afford the fine - put them in jail?

They might be misguided, foolish, and even selfish. But as we hopefully move from pandemic to endemic relatively soon, surely the unvaxxed will be more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. The elderly & vulnerable will be boosted and protected against serious illness, and maybe that will be the focus from now on. I empathise with those angry with the unvaxxed, but there are enough issues dividing society these days - I was hoping a lesson learned from all this would have been that we might be a bit more tolerant with those holding different views to our own (or the majority, in this case).

It's not that it was developed in record time. Vaccines can be made that quickly where there is funding and the political will for it. It just so happens that most diseases aren't deadly or contagious enough to gain the funding for it to go so quickly.

[danhibees1875]

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It's not that it was developed in record time. Vaccines can be made that quickly where there is funding and the political will for it. It just so happens that most diseases aren't deadly or contagious enough to gain the funding for it to go so quickly.

It's not so much the production of it, but the study of what happens to the person once it's been popped into them that I think most people mean when discussing the time frame involved.

[grunt]

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7 day average 190. Shouting on the highest day of the week, is as bad as people who say covid is over when a dozen is reported on a Sunday.

Only 190 on average? Each day? Oh well that's ok then.
The daily peak number of deaths is still a valid measure, whether you like it or not.

[AltheHibby]

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It's not that it was developed in record time. Vaccines can be made that quickly where there is funding and the political will for it. It just so happens that most diseases aren't deadly or contagious enough to gain the funding for it to go so quickly.

I'll second that. A friend was at a talk by Jonathon Van Tam, who said that they had massively streamlined the admin side, which saved months on its own.

[Bristolhibby]

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It's not so much the production of it, but the study of what happens to the person once it's been popped into them that I think most people mean when discussing the time frame involved.

I tell you what study has had millions of live real time data.

The study into what happens and your chance of death without the vaccine.

We’ve got going on two years worth of data.

Na, for me, make life as difficult as possible for anti-vaxxers.

We are all in this together and living in a society comes the responsibility of protecting that society.

It’s three wee jags. Get it done!

J

[SideBurns]

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Good post. Agree that the unvaxxed won't all be anti vaxxers. I was reading yesterday about a man in his 50's who sadly passed away from covid a few weeks ago. He had a needle phobia and was unaware until he got covid he had an undiagnosed lung condition. Leaving a wife and two young children heartbroken. I've always believed it should be a personal choice, people who haven't taken the vaccine should be encouraged not judged. Will caveat that with as someone classed as high risk, I would like the right to know if anyone treating me was unvaxxed, be that a clinician, dentist or optician.

Think if you're in a high risk category, that should be your absolute right. Very sad story you tell about the man in his 50s, but also goes to show it's not as black and white as 'vaxxed v anti-vaxx'.

[SChibs]

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I tell you what study has had millions of live real time data.

The study into what happens and your chance of death without the vaccine.

We’ve got going on two years worth of data.

Na, for me, make life as difficult as possible for anti-vaxxers.

We are all in this together and living in a society comes the responsibility of protecting that society.

It’s three wee jags. Get it done!

J

I don't think its very fair to penalise young healthy people who's chance of dying or being hospitalised by covid is already extremely small. Especially when this is the group that is deemed most at risk from vaccine side effect, however uncommon they are.

[Stairway 2 7]

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It's not that it was developed in record time. Vaccines can be made that quickly where there is funding and the political will for it. It just so happens that most diseases aren't deadly or contagious enough to gain the funding for it to go so quickly.

This is it 100%. Mrna has been studied for decades but it was going nowhere for the common cold. Along comes covid billions of pounds and tens of thousands of scientists studying the same thing at the same time. We get the result in a tenth of the time.

An amazing article on vaccine safety. If it was unsafe we'd know by now

https://bostonreview.net/articles/the-long-term-safety-argument-over-covid-19-vaccines/

[Coco Bryce]

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This is it 100%. Mrna has been studied for decades but it was going nowhere for the common cold. Along comes covid billions of pounds and tens of thousands of scientists studying the same thing at the same time. We get the result in a tenth of the time.

An amazing article on vaccine safety.

If it was unsafe we'd know by now

https://bostonreview.net/articles/th...d-19-vaccines/

And who would tell us if it wasn't Big Pharma? I doubt it very much.

I know a doctor at Sick Kids. He still says he wouldn't let his daughter get the vaccine as they have no idea how this will affect the reproductive system in the future.

It's still a trial vaccine until 2023 for a reason.

[SChibs]

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And who would tell us if it wasn't Big Pharma? I doubt it very much.

I know a doctor at Sick Kids. He still says he wouldn't let his daughter get the vaccine as they have no idea how this will affect the reproductive system in the future.

It's still a trial vaccine until 2023 for a reason.

Another point to add is the studies done weren't as thorough as some other vaccines. Covid19 was still very new to us when the vaccines were being developed and it was considered unethical to have an infected control group that did not receive a vaccine. I keep hearing that all the vaccines went through the same testing as older vaccines have but this isn't completely true.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Another point to add is the studies done weren't as thorough as some other vaccines. Covid19 was still very new to us when the vaccines were being developed and it was considered unethical to have an infected control group that did not receive a vaccine. I keep hearing that all the vaccines went through the same testing as older vaccines have but this isn't completely true.

Even if that were true, and I'm not sure it is, the covid vaccines have now been used on an ultra-massive scale and found to be extremely safe.

[Sir David Gray]

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As someone triple vaxxed, this idea of penalising the unvaxxed makes me uneasy. Not all unvaxxed will be 'anti-vaxxers' - they may just have made a decision they don't want it for themselves. Are we really saying that someone genuinely terrified by the idea of taking a vaccine (not just once, but three times in 6 months) developed in record time that their participation in society isn't just to be limited and restricted, but they should be fined and effectively treated like criminals? And, as we face rising living costs and energy bills, what if that person can't afford the fine - put them in jail?

They might be misguided, foolish, and even selfish. But as we hopefully move from pandemic to endemic relatively soon, surely the unvaxxed will be more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. The elderly & vulnerable will be boosted and protected against serious illness, and maybe that will be the focus from now on. I empathise with those angry with the unvaxxed, but there are enough issues dividing society these days - I was hoping a lesson learned from all this would have been that we might be a bit more tolerant with those holding different views to our own (or the majority, in this case).

Although I disagree (now) with what you say, you do make some good points.

However the reason I've put "now" in brackets is that up until quite recently I would have completely agreed with you.

Fining or penalising people for choosing not to be vaccinated is something that doesn't come naturally to me and when we finally return to a non-pandemic state again I would not support people being fined or penalised for failing to be vaccinated and would view it as something that is entirely their right to make their own decisions on, as much as I may completely disagree with them.

If truth be told I actually thought that the extremely high number of vaccinated people we now have in this country would mean that 2022 would be the year that the rest of us could finally return to a life free of any restrictions but the emergence of Omicron has sadly meant that's not been possible.

Although it's not been a return to anything like the lockdowns of March 2020 or January 2021, we are still living with restrictions which I view as something which could have been completely avoidable if every single person had currently been boostered.

The fact we now have so many patients with Covid-19 in hospital again, and also why we are dealing with restrictions, is largely down to the fact that we still have around 5.5 million eligible people across the UK who have not yet received a single dose of the vaccine.

I understand some people will have what they perceive to be legitimate concerns about the vaccine and a year ago when the programme started I probably would have had some sympathy with that point of view. However 13 months on from the first vaccine being administered in the UK anyone with any level of intelligence at all who has actually bothered to do any credible research on the vaccines over the past year, instead of taking their information from Facebook, will realise that the vaccines are incredibly safe and is the way that we get out of this crisis.

We are now at the stage where the overwhelming majority are now protecting those people who aren't protecting themselves which I just find unacceptable and if fining people as a last resort means that the overwhelming majority can return to a normal life then it's something I'm prepared to support, albeit reluctantly.

[Bristolhibby]

Also, may I add we seriously need to understand and comity to vaccinating the rest of the world.

No point focusing on 5m Brits when there’s 4 billion people globally (50%) who are not fully vaccinated.

J

[Sir David Gray]

Daily Scottish update;

* 7,606 new cases since yesterday - 19.1% positivity rate
Increase of 58 in the confirmed cases in hospital since yesterday - 1,537
Increase of 5 in the confirmed cases in intensive care since yesterday - 59
4,394,756 people have now received their first dose of the vaccine - 1,067 people since yesterday
4,054,752 people have now received their second dose of the vaccine - 3,117 people since yesterday
3,145,537 people have now received a booster vaccination - 15,035 people since yesterday
21 deaths registered since yesterday

* Whilst improving, there continues to be large volumes of tests being processed by labs; this has impacted turnaround times resulting in delays between specimen’s beings taken and results being received and reported. PHS are continuing to monitor the situation.

On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.

[SChibs]

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Even if that were true, and I'm not sure it is, the covid vaccines have now been used on an ultra-massive scale and found to be extremely safe.

I was debating the safety of the vaccines, just the inaccurate claims they went through the exact same testing as older vaccines, that's all. I heard that on a podcast with a professor or medicine at Stanford Uni in the States, not some random on social media

[JeMeSouviens]

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I was debating the safety of the vaccines, just the inaccurate claims they went through the exact same testing as older vaccines, that's all. I heard that on a podcast with a professor or medicine at Stanford Uni in the States, not some random on social media

Fair enough, but I don't think there's any suggestion they cut corners as compared to other currently developed vaccines, eg. the ebola ones.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Daily Scottish update;

* 7,606 new cases since yesterday - 19.1% positivity rate

Hard to get much out of declining case numbers with the usual caveat applying but test positivity is coming down quite fast. It was 26.1% last Wednesday.

[JimBHibees]

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I tell you what study has had millions of live real time data.

The study into what happens and your chance of death without the vaccine.

We’ve got going on two years worth of data.

Na, for me, make life as difficult as possible for anti-vaxxers.

We are all in this together and living in a society comes the responsibility of protecting that society.

It’s three wee jags. Get it done!

J

My view also

[Sir David Gray]

129,587 cases and 398 deaths registered in the UK today.

Slight drop in the number of patients in hospital and also ICU across the UK.

[SideBurns]

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Although I disagree (now) with what you say, you do make some good points.

However the reason I've put "now" in brackets is that up until quite recently I would have completely agreed with you.

Fining or penalising people for choosing not to be vaccinated is something that doesn't come naturally to me and when we finally return to a non-pandemic state again I would not support people being fined or penalised for failing to be vaccinated and would view it as something that is entirely their right to make their own decisions on, as much as I may completely disagree with them.

If truth be told I actually thought that the extremely high number of vaccinated people we now have in this country would mean that 2022 would be the year that the rest of us could finally return to a life free of any restrictions but the emergence of Omicron has sadly meant that's not been possible.

Although it's not been a return to anything like the lockdowns of March 2020 or January 2021, we are still living with restrictions which I view as something which could have been completely avoidable if every single person had currently been boostered.

The fact we now have so many patients with Covid-19 in hospital again, and also why we are dealing with restrictions, is largely down to the fact that we still have around 5.5 million eligible people across the UK who have not yet received a single dose of the vaccine.

I understand some people will have what they perceive to be legitimate concerns about the vaccine and a year ago when the programme started I probably would have had some sympathy with that point of view. However 13 months on from the first vaccine being administered in the UK anyone with any level of intelligence at all who has actually bothered to do any credible research on the vaccines over the past year, instead of taking their information from Facebook, will realise that the vaccines are incredibly safe and is the way that we get out of this crisis.

We are now at the stage where the overwhelming majority are now protecting those people who aren't protecting themselves which I just find unacceptable and if fining people as a last resort means that the overwhelming majority can return to a normal life then it's something I'm prepared to support, albeit reluctantly.

Cheers - hard to argue with much of what you say. However, do you not think we're getting relatively close to moving from pandemic to endemic, the situation where you wouldn't support penalising the unvaccinated? And, I just find it hard to see that the introduction of fines would allow the rest of us to return to normality quickly. I'm against the idea on a point of principle, but also just don't get the purpose behind such a proposal (other than simply punishing the unvaxxed for their decision; I really can't imagine sufficient numbers suddenly deciding to take the vaccine to make a difference).

[Sylar]

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I was debating the safety of the vaccines, just the inaccurate claims they went through the exact same testing as older vaccines, that's all. I heard that on a podcast with a professor or medicine at Stanford Uni in the States, not some random on social media

Hopefully not Michael Levitt?

I can 100% confirm that the man is a total wackjob. I attended a seminar he was at the last time I was over on campus at Stanford and he's as mad as a box of frogs.

[danhibees1875]

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Hard to get much out of declining case numbers with the usual caveat applying but test positivity is coming down quite fast. It was 26.1% last Wednesday.

People fed up of it all finally logging their negative LFTs?