Tories are still lying *******s

[Bristolhibby]

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No treatment should ever be forced on anyone against their will. Treatment for any issue should only ever be voluntary.

Sectioning someone?

J

[Moulin Yarns]

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Your last paragraph could have been written about gay men in the 70s. Using language like "childhood trauma " , "treatment " "delusion" and " healthier thinking " smacks of the horrors of conversion therapy.

Aye, the real name of the poster is Marty McFly.

[Keith_M]

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Yes, we should be entitled to say what we want, absolutely. Wokeness however actively stops people from expressing any opinion which doesn't agree with their view of the world. That's the problem. You don't have the option of disagreeing with the well trained woke disciple. There is no room for diversity of opinion or healthy discussion in the world they are creating for us. The people of Hong Kong are under the thumb of people who have been practicing wokeness(i.e. communism) for a very long time. No matter how absurd the woke idea is, if you don't agree with it, you are shamed, cancelled, fired from you job or even prosecuted. The woke love to call people fascists. They are closest we have come to fascism since the second world war. Surely we can all agree that healthy debate and the exchange of ideas is far more healthy for society that a mob telling everyone what their allowed to say. Ask Dave Chappelle what he thinks. No more Shakespeare in schools. The Rolling Stones not 'allowed' to play Brown Sugar anymore. The list goes on and on and on.

Now, I occasionally object to newspaper articles that portray (what I feel) are a very warped sense of what is and is not acceptable, but that just comes over as a reactionary rant and is full of innacuracies, e.g. Shakespeare and Brown Sugar

.

[Moulin Yarns]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

On the last paragraph, what type of treatment do you advocate for someone who is transgender ( not intersex)? Is it possibly the same treatment that you would advocate for gay men or women? Are you saying that they are not thinking healthy? What is healthy thinking?

[neil7908]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

RE the last paragraph - where did complete your psychology and/or medical degree? I'm curious as what you are saying goes completely against current thinking from trained professionals.

Gender dysphoria is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association to diagnose mental conditions.

Rather than a terrifying fear of "wokeness", my biggest issue with our current age is that every Tom, Dick and Harry on the internet has decided, without any actual investigation, that they know more than the collective knowledge of tens of thousands of professionals who have spent their lives dedicated to a particular subject.

Michael Gove said it best "we've had enough of experts". Sadly that is true. The average punter now thinks they know more than scientists about climate change, medical professionals about gender, and racism than those experiencing it.

And that worries the hell out of me more than a few on Twitter getting a annoyed.

[Jack]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

Why waste time with a long term goal? Just send them straight to the death camps.

Your posts are vile.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Your last paragraph could have been written about gay men in the 70s. Using language like "childhood trauma " , "treatment " "delusion" and " healthier thinking " smacks of the horrors of conversion therapy.

I think you guys have all taken his point the wrong way.

Think for a moment of some mental health illnesses, and our thoughts on them in the past.

I’ll maybe be a bit clumsy with my language here but I’ll try and explain.

If you hand a relative that was going a bit senile, or ‘mad’ , that kept telling you all that he wanted to live in a wardrobe because of the fairies that come for him in the night, we wouldn’t go straight to “ok Uncle Bob, no problem, here’s a pillow and duvet for you to get comfy”.

We would look to get him some help.

I think the poster is trying to suggest, is that if someone feels trapped in the body of someone of the opposite sex, that’s a mental issue, and maybe they need help in a similar way?

The thought that teenagers or younger still can decide on their gender just doesn’t seem right.

I don’t think his post in any way can be compared to conversion therapy.

[Kato]

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I think the poster is trying to suggest, is that if someone feels trapped in the body of someone of the opposite sex, that’s a mental issue, and maybe they need help in a similar way?

Is this what you believe?

[lapsedhibee]

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Fundamental truths are perennial. Inventing the idea that there are more than 2 genders does not make that idea true. The fact we are even having this conversation these days is mind boggling. The fact that most of you are going along with it is terrifying. What other new 'truths' will we be forced to believe in the coming years. God help us all.

This is you, this is:

1. "There are only two genders."

2. "There are a tiny number of people who are intersex."

3. "There are only two genders."

It must be great to have no problem whatsoever in holding completely contradictory 'facts' inside your head. It's not so great when you say them out loud, to other people.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Is this what you believe?

I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the subject.

[Kato]

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I don’t know. I don’t know enough about the subject.

There's a whole thread on the subject not that far down with lots of information.

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[Keith_M]

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I think you guys have all taken his point the wrong way.

Think for a moment of some mental health illnesses, and our thoughts on them in the past.

I’ll maybe be a bit clumsy with my language here but I’ll try and explain.

If you hand a relative that was going a bit senile, or ‘mad’ , that kept telling you all that he wanted to live in a wardrobe because of the fairies that come for him in the night, we wouldn’t go straight to “ok Uncle Bob, no problem, here’s a pillow and duvet for you to get comfy”.

We would look to get him some help.

I think the poster is trying to suggest, is that if someone feels trapped in the body of someone of the opposite sex, that’s a mental issue, and maybe they need help in a similar way?

The thought that teenagers or younger still can decide on their gender just doesn’t seem right.

I don’t think his post in any way can be compared to conversion therapy.

That's kind of what I took from it and think some of the reactions have been a bit over the top.

[SHODAN]

Some of the faux-compassionate "opinions" on this thread regarding trans people make me genuinely sad, particularly the suggestion that it is a mental disorder that needs to be cured (i.e. just like the attitudes to gay people historically); my trans friends have to put up with this on a day-to-day basis from all angles and I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

I've had to put a number of people on ignore already; I would kindly request that this discussion be moved to that to the thread we already have for it so I don't have to see this again.

[Keith_M]

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Some of the faux-compassionate "opinions" on this thread regarding trans people make me genuinely sad, particularly the suggestion that it is a mental disorder that needs to be cured (i.e. just like the attitudes to gay people historically); my trans friends have to put up with this on a day-to-day basis from all angles and I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

I've had to put a number of people on ignore already; I would kindly request that this discussion be moved to that to the thread we already have for it so I don't have to see this again.

Yeah, TBF, it is quite a tangent from the topic of The Tories.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Some of the faux-compassionate "opinions" on this thread regarding trans people make me genuinely sad, particularly the suggestion that it is a mental disorder that needs to be cured (i.e. just like the attitudes to gay people historically); my trans friends have to put up with this on a day-to-day basis from all angles and I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

I've had to put a number of people on ignore already; I would kindly request that this discussion be moved to that to the thread we already have for it so I don't have to see this again.

I think that's a good opinion.

The main mental health issues that Trans people face are imposed on them. There is no cure as you say, there is also no treatment regardless of what someone suggests.

For some reason most people think that trans means wanting to transition from male to female, however you have Elliott Page, formerly Ellen Page, and a friend in kirkcaldy who changed their name from Amy to Jude a few weeks ago. These are not what people generally think.

All the talk is about men wanting to be known as women, but that's not always the case.

[Kato]

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Yeah, TBF, it is quite a tangent from the topic of The Tories.

Is that not the whole point of "The Culture Wars"? If we are at odds with these discussions, which seem to be aligned to left versus right then we aren't discussing the traditional left versus right subject - Economics. I'm guilty of being sucked in just as much as anyone btw.

[lord bunberry]

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The feminists of the 70's were inspired by Marxism. As I pointed out previously, the Marxists promoted the idea that men and women were equal in all ways, music to a feminists ear. An idea created invented by one of group of people to serve their cause, which later adopted to a later group of people to serve their cause. 3rd wave feminism is marxism.

People in the parts the world you mention, may well have had odd beliefs at various points in history. That those societies may have believed in the idea of multiple genders, doesn't mean that there is any truth behind. South American societies believed that human sacrifice appeased the gods. Does that mean we should revive the practice because it was done in the past? Of course it doesn't? Believing something is true doesn't make it true. I could believe I'm giraffe but you're and not obliged to agree with me. It's absurd.

There are a tiny number of people who are intersex. This is a fact, therefore I won't deny it. Men who are biologically men, but think they are women have a psychological problem. There is no genetic or hormonal reason for their belief. It can only be psychological. That being the case, we should be compassionate toward them. They may have experienced childhood trauma. They should be given treatment with a view to helping them live a healthy normal life. Agreeing that a man is a woman is not helping that person. If you do agree, you are complicit in helping remain in a state of delusion. Of course, it may be necessary to agree with them initially, before staring treatment so as not to push the poor person away. However, like a drug addict, the long term goal should be to quietly and sensitively move them toward healthier thinking. That is the truly compassionate thing to do. They are crying out for help, so lets help them.

Who let the 1970s in?

[Keith_M]

Soooooo....


....the Tories, questionable parentage or not?

[One Day Soon]

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Some of the faux-compassionate "opinions" on this thread regarding trans people make me genuinely sad, particularly the suggestion that it is a mental disorder that needs to be cured (i.e. just like the attitudes to gay people historically); my trans friends have to put up with this on a day-to-day basis from all angles and I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

I've had to put a number of people on ignore already; I would kindly request that this discussion be moved to that to the thread we already have for it so I don't have to see this again.

Your quite right, off to the other thread it should go.

[Radium]

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[lapsedhibee]

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A good enough joke, but shouldn't Lammy also be calling for jail time for the miscreants?

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/jonashworth/stat...056738306?s=21


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[Bostonhibby]

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Some of the faux-compassionate "opinions" on this thread regarding trans people make me genuinely sad, particularly the suggestion that it is a mental disorder that needs to be cured (i.e. just like the attitudes to gay people historically); my trans friends have to put up with this on a day-to-day basis from all angles and I can't imagine what it must be like for them.

I've had to put a number of people on ignore already; I would kindly request that this discussion be moved to that to the thread we already have for it so I don't have to see this again.

Nail, hammer heid

There's a place for the main protagonist here.......

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[Bostonhibby]

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Soooooo....


....the Tories, questionable parentage or not?

I've had a quick check today and can confirm they're still nasty ********

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Tories are to blame for absolutely everything that's wrong in the world today but not even i can blame them for the last three pages on this thread


but anyway

St Albans beat Forest Green in the FA cup earlier tonight

[Keith_M]

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I've had a quick check today and can confirm they're still nasty ********

Thanks, at least we've cleared that up

[Glory Lurker]

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Tories are to blame for absolutely everything that's wrong in the world today but not even i can blame them for the last three pages on this thread


but anyway

St Albans beat Forest Green in the FA cup earlier tonight

Vegans losing is a bad omen for what COP26 will deliver.

[Stairway 2 7]

@JohnRentoul
Labour lead in @IpsosMORI poll for Standard
Lab 36% nc
Con 35% -4
Green 11% +5
Lib Dem 9% nc
https://standard.co.uk/news/politics...l-b964945.html

[Lendo]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...eaze-clampdown

Commons Standards Committee considering a ban on MP holding a second job as advisers or consultants. Seems like a great move. I imagine there’s a lot of MP very worried about their bottom line right now.

[Kato]

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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...eaze-clampdown

Commons Standards Committee considering a ban on MP holding a second job as advisers or consultants. Seems like a great move. I imagine there’s a lot of MP very worried about their bottom line right now.

Cue mass exodus of Tory people wanting to be MP's.

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