Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[wookie70]

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You're saying it's pointless because you want to see it that way.

If there's the risk of a heavy fine for either borrowing or loaning a Covid passport then it won't be the free-for-all that you're suggesting.

Is there a heavy fine for that. Did the full and very well thought out legislation touch on that. They don't even know what venues are nightclubs. I photographed a Boxing match last night. I'd agree a long while back and it was a charity type event. I was the only photographer so felt obliged to go. It was in a smallish club with maybe a couple of hundred in attendance. Half the evening was kids matches. No idea if this would be covered by Passports, doubt the government know yet, but I would feel safer in ER for a full season than I did there for 5 minutes. I'll not be volunteering for any future indoor events and wish I had said no to this one. If events like that, in unventilated halls with spit and blood flying and families and friends screaming and shouting are not requiring a passport then the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It will be interesting to see, even if it is passported, it is still a hotbed of transmission and all those passported people will then interact with others who may be unvaccinated in other smaller events, work, colleague, uni, homes etc etc.

I'm with Patrick Harvie, passports are "a real danger of generational injustice". He has been bought by power now though so has fallen in line

[Rumble de Thump]

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Is there a heavy fine for that. Did the full and very well thought out legislation touch on that. They don't even know what venues are nightclubs. I photographed a Boxing match last night. I'd agree a long while back and it was a charity type event. I was the only photographer so felt obliged to go. It was in a smallish club with maybe a couple of hundred in attendance. Half the evening was kids matches. No idea if this would be covered by Passports, doubt the government know yet, but I would feel safer in ER for a full season than I did there for 5 minutes. I'll not be volunteering for any future indoor events and wish I had said no to this one. If events like that, in unventilated halls with spit and blood flying and families and friends screaming and shouting are not requiring a passport then the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It will be interesting to see, even if it is passported, it is still a hotbed of transmission and all those passported people will then interact with others who may be unvaccinated in other smaller events, work, colleague, uni, homes etc etc.

I'm with Patrick Harvie, passports are "a real danger of generational injustice". He has been bought by power now though so has fallen in line

His point was that not all young people had been given the chance to be double vaccinated. By the end of this month they should have had that chance.

[Ronniekirk]

Wee story on hibs news 24/7 saying hibs may keep maximum attendances at 10 thousand if vaccine certificates to difficult costly to implement
Assume that won’t happen but the fact this story is out there is a bit of a worry
Not much incentive now to buy the five or eight game packages until it’s clear that won’t happen


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[wookie70]

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It sounds like he’s sensible enough to probably realise that whilst it’s not an ideal situation that it’s just worked out a bit **** for him and that he’ll do the right thing in the long run which will help all concerned. He’ll be able to crack on with the things he enjoys and he’ll carry on protecting his family, friends and everyone he comes into contact with.

If he wanted to protect his family, I'm talking in general here not about my son, he wouldn't go to clubs etc in the first place. Not likely when the government is essentially saying they are safe by allowing them to open regardless of post or pre passports or what a nightclub is defined as.

Being vaccinated is tiny advantage to helping others compared to not catching the virus in the first place. We are full steam ahead with herd immunity with every egg being laid in the vaccine basket. The government have no issue with transmission as long as we are vaccinated.

I have one kid at school, one who works in hospitality and socialises frequently. The virus is a tiny issue to them given their health and age. Their behaviours are far more likely to get them hurt. The openness of society means the virus will visit my house, it has already, and will continue to do so regardless of passports or vaccines. My wife and I are double jagged so that is about as protected as we can get. Not many young people in hospital and even if they are in, having had a positive test in the last 14 days, how much of the reason for admission is covid. Hospitals are still rammed with older age groups, as you would expect in normal times, but especially with Covid. Passports are aimed squarely at the young given they are the lowest percentage of take up and have had the least amount of time to be vaccinated.

I hope it works but really can't see how it will have any real effect and is certainly miles down the priority list. It is spin rather than tackling the virus imo. A show of power and control for something easy to do to save trying to fix the messes they have made from the start

[tamig]

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Yes. And you can now download a pdf to your phone with qr codes of the details.

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Just downloaded mine now as didn’t realise I needed it for a gig next week.

[wookie70]

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Just downloaded mine now as didn’t realise I needed it for a gig next week.

Since when , the law comes in from 1 October as far as I was aware. Is it in Englandshire

[Sir David Gray]

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Since when , the law comes in from 1 October as far as I was aware. Is it in Englandshire

Some places will decide to set their own rules.

[wookie70]

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Some places will decide to set their own rules.

Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed

[J-C]

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Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed

Venues can do as they please it's there prerogative, all people at TRNSMT this weekend had to have a clear lateral flow test before being allowed in.

[CentreLine]

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They don’t check ID though. If it’s to be done properly then it would need verified.

Wouldn’t it work much the same as the season ticket, you can only use the QR code once per game then it’s blocked? So many reasons why people are less likely to share QR codes but surely that has to be one of them. Bit of a bummer to turn up at the ground and find your mate has got in ahead of you on your vaccine passport.

[tamig]

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Brave venue unless the Gig is Tom Jones or similar where most will be old and double vaxxed

The gig is next Friday in England. Condition of entry to the venue is double vaxed or negative LFT tests. Plenty places applying similar rules throughout the UK just now. It doesn’t need to be law.

[wookie70]

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The gig is next Friday in England. Condition of entry to the venue is double vaxed or negative LFT tests. Plenty places applying similar rules throughout the UK just now. It doesn’t need to be law.

Westminster Govt encouraged passports for Gigs and nightclubs in England in July. Might not be law but the venues probably don't want to take a chance. I doubt an industry that has been harmed so much by covid would do it without that encouragement

[tamig]

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Westminster Govt encouraged passports for Gigs and nightclubs in England in July. Might not be law but the venues probably don't want to take a chance. I doubt an industry that has been harmed so much by covid would do it without that encouragement

Its a moot point bud. I’ve downloaded my cert and ready to go. Sold out so the artists, the venue and the crowd all happy.

[wookie70]

Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports, combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine. Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports, combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine. Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

Wishful thinking. 25% of US covid 19 hospital admissions are under 17.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Cases heading in the right direction and news that Englandshire won't be bringing in Passports, combined with a study that says healthy young boys would be safer with Covid than the Pfizer vaccine. Hopefully AZ doesn't have the same findings and my son has taken a wholly unnecessary risk and hopefully our club won't have to deal with passports and the unnecessary expense and potential decision of reducing capacity.

Good to see you believe a study which is yet to be peer reviewed and on the effect of a vaccine that your son wasn't given. 🙄

Pfizer and AZ are very different.

What unnecessary risk has your son taken?

[wookie70]

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Good to see you believe a study which is yet to be peer reviewed and on the effect of a vaccine that your son wasn't given. 🙄

Pfizer and AZ are very different.

What unnecessary risk has your son taken?

None yet, that is why I said I hope he hasn't and specifically mentioned that AZ is different. I hope all the vaccines are in time viewed to be completely safe. However if that survey is right then Israel has been pumping vaccines into that age groups of boys declaring it safe based on their earlier studies. I hope that doesn't happen here and I am specifically talking about the young here who have a minute risk from Covid.

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

[H18 SFR]

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

She will be delighted to be seen to be doing something different. Can’t see anything changing up here.

[Bright_Hibee]

Anti-vaxxers are absolute tools. If they are supporters or club staff members, they shouldn't be allowed at Easter Road.

[Coco Bryce]

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58535258

what now ?

It won't work here either.

[wookie70]

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Anti-vaxxers are absolute tools. If they are supporters or club staff members, they shouldn't be allowed at Easter Road.

Is that another passport required for that.

[FilipinoHibs]

The next 6 months to a year do not look good:

Here’s What the*Next Six Months of the Pandemic Will Bring https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-12/6-month-covid-outlook-2021

[CentreLine]

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The next 6 months to a year do not look good:

Here’s What the*Next Six Months of the Pandemic Will Bring https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-12/6-month-covid-outlook-2021

The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

[FilipinoHibs]

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The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

[The dalmeny]

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6691767[/URL]]Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

pure press speculation, if it happens it happens. Let’s just spread more doom and gloom.

[Peevemor]

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Sorry does not allow me to post.

But summary is from pandemic experts:

Has another 18 months to 2 years to ru;
We are in third wave, likely to be a fourth wave;
4th wave will see a return working from home, no face to face schooling, masks and lockdowns;

New variants may be immune to the vaccine; and

To get under control need 90 to 95% of the world's population vaccinated or infected.

I was speaking to a chemist friend on Saturday night and she was saying that the current thinking is approx. 5 years (total).

[Sir David Gray]

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The article seems to be behind a paywall. Can you copy and paste at all?

For anyone hoping to see light at the end of the Covid-19 tunnel over the next three to six months, scientists have some bad news: Brace for more of what we’ve already been through.

Outbreaks will close schools and cancel classes. Vaccinated nursing home residents will face renewed fears of infection. Workers will weigh the danger of returning to the office as hospitals are overwhelmed, once again.

Almost everyone will be either infected or vaccinated before the pandemic ends, experts agree. Maybe both. An unlucky few will contract the virus more than once. The race between the waves of transmission that lead to new variants and the battle to get the globe inoculated won’t be over until the coronavirus has touched all of us.

“I see these continued surges occurring throughout the world,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, and an adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden. “Then it will drop, potentially somewhat precipitously,” he said. “And then I think we very easily could see another surge in the fall and winter” of this year, he added.

With billions of people around the world yet to be vaccinated and little chance now of eliminating the virus, we can expect more outbreaks in classrooms, on public transport and in workplaces over the coming months, as economies push ahead with reopening. Even as immunization rates rise, there will always be people who are vulnerable to the virus: Newborn babies, people who can’t or won’t get inoculated, and those who get vaccinated but suffer breakthrough infections as their protection levels ebb.

The next few months will be rough. One key danger is if a vaccine-resistant variant develops, although it is not the only risk ahead. In the coming months, Bloomberg will explore the pandemic’s long-term impact on economies and markets, the pharmaceutical industry, travel and more.

“We’re going to see hills and valleys, at least for the next several years as we get more vaccine out. That’s going to help. But the challenge is going to be: How big will the hills and valleys be, in terms of their distance?” Osterholm said. “We don’t know. But I can just tell you, this is a coronavirus forest fire that will not stop until it finds all the human wood that it can burn.”

Covid Compared to Other Pandemics

The five well-documented influenza pandemics of the past 130 years offer some blueprint for how Covid might play out, according to Lone Simonsen, an epidemiologist and professor of population health sciences at Roskilde University in Denmark. She is an expert on the ebb and flow of such events.

While the longest global flu outbreak lasted five years, they mostly consisted of two to four waves of infection over an average of two or three years, she said. Covid is already shaping up to be among the more severe pandemics, as its second year concludes with the world in the middle of a third wave — and no end in sight.

It’s possible that the virus known as SARS-CoV-2 won’t follow the path set by the pandemics of the past. After all, it is a different, novel and potentially more transmissible pathogen. And with a death toll of more than 4.6 million people so far, it’s already more than twice as deadly as any outbreak since the 1918 Spanish flu.

Despite brutal initial waves and relatively high vaccination rates, countries including the U.S., U.K., Russia and Israel are flirting with record numbers of cases. Immunization is helping to moderate incidences of severe cases and deaths, but surging infections mean the virus is reaching the young and others who remain unvaccinated, leading to rising rates of serious disease in those groups.

Nations where vaccination has been sparse — including Malaysia, Mexico, Iran and Australia — are in the midst of their biggest outbreaks yet, fueled by the contagious delta strain. With the virus still spreading out of control in vast swathes of the planet, another novel variant could quite feasibly emerge.

History shows the commonly held belief that viruses automatically get milder over time — to avoid completely wiping out their host population — is wrong, according to Simonsen. Although new mutations aren’t always more severe than their predecessors, “pandemics can in fact get more deadly during the pandemic period, as the virus is adapting to its new host,” she said.

Early in the Covid outbreak, there was good reason to hope that vaccines would provide long-term protection, much like childhood shots that stop diseases such as polio.

Coronaviruses have a “proof-reading” mechanism that fixes the in-born errors caused when the virus replicates, reducing the likelihood of variants emerging when the virus is transmitted from one person to another.

The number of global cases has been so vast, however, that mutations are occurring anyway.

“With the pandemic, we have this enormous force of infection,” said ****a Subbarao, director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Reference and Research on Influenza at the Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity in Melbourne. “That has counterbalanced the ability of the virus to proof-read.”

As a result, Covid could be like the flu, requiring regular vaccine top-ups to remain effective as the virus evolves.

Some researchers say SARS-CoV-2 is poised to become completely resistant to the first generation of vaccines. A study from Japan, which has yet to be published or peer-reviewed, suggests that potentially dangerous mutations in the delta variant are already being picked up in a global database used to track such developments. Reports of current strains breaking through vaccinations or triggering higher fatality rates have not held up to rigorous scrutiny thus far.

“This is a scenario we hope won’t happen,” Simonsen said. “My God, we would have to do it all again.”

Other even grimmer possibilities for the coming months include the emergence of a novel influenza virus or another coronavirus making the leap from animals into humans.

“As long as there are animal reservoirs of coronavirus there is still the possibility that another zoonotic coronavirus could emerge in the future,” Subbarao said. “There is that in the background, the risk of still dealing with this one when another one emerges.”

How Will Covid End?

What seems clear is that the pandemic will not be over in six months. Experts generally agree that the current outbreak will be tamed once most people — perhaps 90% to 95% of the global population — have a degree of immunity thanks to immunization or previous infection.

The key element should be vaccination, they say.

“Without vaccination, one is like a sitting duck, because the virus will spread widely and find most everybody this autumn and winter,” said Simonsen.

More than 5.66 billion doses of vaccine have been administered around the world, according to Bloomberg’s vaccine tracker. But the success of rollouts in some regions, such as the European Union, North America and China, masks the failure in others. Most countries in Africa have only given enough vaccine to cover less than 5% of their populations with a two-dose shot. India has administered enough to cover only about 26%.

The pandemic will end at different times in different places, just as previous outbreaks have, said Erica Charters, associate professor of the history of medicine at Oxford University and the coordinator of a project on how epidemics end. Governments will have to decide how much of the disease they are comfortable living with, she said.

Approaches vary. While some countries are still shooting for zero Covid cases, the world is unlikely to eradicate the virus completely.

Nations like Denmark and Singapore, which have managed to keep cases relatively contained, are already moving toward a post-pandemic future with fewer safety restrictions. Others, such as the U.S. and U.K., are opening up even as infection numbers near records. Meanwhile, China, Hong Kong and New Zealand have vowed to keep vigilantly working to eliminate the virus locally. As a result, they are likely to be among the last places to leave behind the disruption wrought by walling out the pandemic.

“The end process is not going to be uniform,” Charters said. The pandemic “is a biological phenomenon, but it’s also a political and social phenomenon.”

“Even now we have different approaches to it.”

It’s likely to be messy, leaving a lasting legacy for years to come. Until then, most of us will need to brace for many more months in the pandemic’s grip.

“We have to approach it with our eyes wide open and with a great deal of humility,” Osterholm said. “Anybody that thinks we're going to be over this in the next few days or a few months is sorely mistaken.”

[green day]

Is there even the vaguest possibility that this thread can stay on track about Vaccine Passports for Easter Road?

AFAIK there is a general Covid thread elsewhere..................................

[WhileTheChief..]

To save me reading 39 pages, am I allowed to go to the game on Saturday without a COVID passport?