Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[Block]

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She decided from the 1st 20 pages of this thread that there was enough public support to crack on. I'm still trying to work out what name she posts under.

@007

[green day]

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From today's published proposal:

"The scheme will require a person seeking entry to certain venues and settings to show that they have been fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated means vaccinated with a MHRA recognised vaccine in line with the MHRA recommended number of doses for the vaccine used and two weeks has passed for the vaccine to take effect"

Thanks, I hadn't read that.

Still only the 2 home matches though😉

[Sir David Gray]

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It is about proof of vaccination not being vaccinated. Being vaccinated doesn't gain you entry just like being filled with Covid wouldn't stop you attending assuming you had a passport. I am double jagged and do not agree with passports. I may choose not to carry one and will not be allowed entry. I will legally be unable to attend too surely.

Yes correct if you're fully vaccinated but choose not to bring any evidence of your full vaccination to a venue where you know it will be a requirement then you'll be denied entry.

In much the same way as if you're a young looking 18+ year old who tries to get served alcohol in Tesco but chooses not to carry any ID you run the risk of not being served the alcohol, despite being eligible to purchase it.

[wookie70]

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It seems to be forgotten in the argument that there are some people who despite wanting the vaccine at the earliest opportunity still aren’t double vaccinated.

Drop in vaccines didn’t really start until July and even then many under 30s were still waiting for their letter which didn’t come until later in the month.

I understand that the October date is based on 8 weeks after the end of July, the earliest that the gov had offered the first dose to everyone, but unfortunately if you caught covid when you were due your 2nd vaccine (which I did :-) ) you need to wait a further 4 weeks until you can get your second dose so for me that’s the end of September at the very earliest and from what I understand you may have to wait 2 weeks from the vaccination before your 2nd vaccine is valid?

It might sound like a unique position but it’s mainly folk in my age range that didn’t get offered the vaccine until July and are catching covid while we have record positive cases but despite bursting with anti bodies having suffered the virus we may be locked out of the football etc through no real fault of our own

My son is actually in the situation you mention and will now be unlikely to be able to go to the Israel match. He probably has more antibodies than me and works in a McDonalds which is deemed perfectly safe. He would now be double vaxxed if he hadn't caught it.

What about those that turn 18 in October. They could be allowed to go to a game on Saturday and be denied entry on Wednesday when only their age is the determining factor. Could that be deemed age discrimination. It certainly feels like it is.

[Slim Shady]

Potentially an unvaccinated person who doesn’t have Covid 19 as per PCR test, will be refused entry but a double jabber with certification, who has Covid 19 but showing no symptoms so therefore doesn’t know they have it will be allowed entry and could spread the virus?

[H18 SFR]

Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

[Sir David Gray]

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Potentially an unvaccinated person who doesn’t have Covid 19 as per PCR test, will be refused entry but a double jabber with certification, who has Covid 19 but showing no symptoms so therefore doesn’t know they have it will be allowed entry and could spread the virus?

Yes that is certainly possible.

[CallumLaidlaw]

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Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

I was always expecting boosters tbh. And I’m happy to have one if it means we continue to love a close to normal life. But if we’re made to have restrictionswhile expected to take a booster, that’s a whole different story


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[007]

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Today’s development has puzzled me within somewhat. I’m doubled vaccinated but I feel compelled to politely refuse a booster should that transpire.

I just feel today is a step beyond what is acceptable. You can’t win the argument with those resisting the vaccine so you decide to punish them essentially. Hearts and minds and all that.

Like I said, I’m a bit puzzled within, a booster isn’t for me, I just don’t feel what’s going on is correct.

Bit of a strange reason to not want a booster. Don't agree with a measure being implemented so choose to increase the risk to your own health and potentially increase the chances of continuing the spread. Bizarre logic.

[wookie70]

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I was always expecting boosters tbh. And I’m happy to have one if it means we continue to love a close to normal life. But if we’re made to have restrictionswhile expected to take a booster, that’s a whole different story


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Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

[Col2]

Scotland currently has the highest infection levels in the world. IN THE WORLD. The responsibility for this sits with the Scot Govt. They delayed opening up, and now it’s out of control.l and they don’t know why’s nobody knows why. England have had schools open for a week now and have a small increase.

Corporate businesses have been told by the Scot Govt to scrap any plans/pilots to get people back on the office but won’t make a public announcement about it (contradicting itself weeks after saying we were getting back to normal).

This crowd announcement along with several other actions are to try and get back some level of control. Except without more money from chancellor the Scot Govt won’t want to be criticized for restricting business where they can’t compensate them financially. It is a blatant attempt to reduce materially, numbers going to events by making it as difficult as possible.

We are three weeks away from this and there is next to no detail and not a single meeting has taken place between authorities and Govt.

We as a club will need to decide soon if we follow the lead of the group and push back (therefore no chance of being ready) or start to work up solutions now but risk of wasted money.

I think it’s a disgrace and the usual half arsed rollout with zero detail. But it’s not going to go away and we might just need to make the best of it for a couple of months. We all want to see our club and we want as many in as possible. I hope we are actively working out how we can do this for our first game.

[CallumLaidlaw]

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Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

I’ll be honest, I’m unsure what you’re arguing there.


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[wookie70]

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Yes that is certainly possible.

I would guess that is almost certain, if not ER but in venues with passports and they would get in with symptoms.

I would also extend it to say that someone who has one vaccination and has antibodies they have got from having Covid and who has a negative PCR test just before the game will be denied while a coughing spluttering Covid carrying Passport holder will be allowed in. If this had came in a few weeks ago my son would have been in that first category. He made the decision to be vaccinated and went as soon as he was offered an appointment. The only reason he isn't double vaxxed is his age. Something Sturgeon definitely said would be taken into consideration - "Sturgeon also explained the Government would have to ensure the system was fair for those who were unable to get the vaccine, due to their age"

Governments discriminating against the young and punishing them is all the done thing now though. However, they are not an age group that are generally motivated by telling them to do something. I imagine they can knock up a few paper certificates easy enough too.

[Block]

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Scotland currently has the highest infection levels in the world. IN THE WORLD. The responsibility for this sits with the Scot Govt. They delayed opening up, and now it’s out of control.l and they don’t know why’s nobody knows why. England have had schools open for a week now and have a small increase.

Corporate businesses have been told by the Scot Govt to scrap any plans/pilots to get people back on the office but won’t make a public announcement about it (contradicting itself weeks after saying we were getting back to normal).

This crowd announcement along with several other actions are to try and get back some level of control. Except without more money from chancellor the Scot Govt won’t want to be criticized for restricting business where they can’t compensate them financially. It is a blatant attempt to reduce materially, numbers going to events by making it as difficult as possible.

We are three weeks away from this and there is next to no detail and not a single meeting has taken place between authorities and Govt.

We as a club will need to decide soon if we follow the lead of the group and push back (therefore no chance of being ready) or start to work up solutions now but risk of wasted money.

I think it’s a disgrace and the usual half arsed rollout with zero detail. But it’s not going to go away and we might just need to make the best of it for a couple of months. We all want to see our club and we want as many in as possible. I hope we are actively working out how we can do this for our first game.

Got to unfortunately agree.

It looks as if the Scottish Government has lost control of Covid and are looking for ill advised propagandist measures.

So called passports are not the answer to the bigger picture.

[LunasBoots]

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Why, surely it is about public health. You are already restricted in terms of travel abroad etc. Restrictions have been massively successful in protecting citizens. Albeit it was a different variant restrictions pretty much stopped Covid deaths without a vaccine. A blend of both is most likely to be part of the future, potentially even if there is 100% vaccination and particularly if future variants are not as easy to tame by this vaccination set. Is this about your freedom or public health.

Yup, the government ain't telling you that though which is why people are confused, even with full vaccination of a whole population the virus will still be there and no doubt there will be a major new variant and so on that bypasses the vaccines anyway as is being said by scientists, all this beating the virus nonsense is just that.

[wookie70]

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Yup, the government ain't telling you that though which is why people are confused, even with full vaccination of a whole population the virus will still be there and no doubt there will be a major new variant and so on that bypasses the vaccines anyway as is being said by scientists, all this beating the virus nonsense is just that.

In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

[Block]

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In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

If reading and understanding you correctly, you are actually stating that the Snp Scottish Government are targeting the wrong cohort at the very least.

[wookie70]

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I’ll be honest, I’m unsure what you’re arguing there.


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Are you going to not take a booster if there are further restrictions. That would be thinking about your freedom and placing it above Public Health as restrictions are absolutely proven to reduce transmission. That is one of the argument against those, like me, who feel passports are wrong.

I'm for the best way to stop the virus and in my view that is real restrictions and vaccinations. Having 50k gathering and using passports to get a few vaccinated doesn't seem to me to be a successful strategy. The SG strategy has been pretty disastrous throughout so that isn't a surprise.

[wookie70]

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If reading and understanding you correctly, you are actually stating that the Snp Scottish Government are targeting the wrong cohort at the very least.

I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

[Block]

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I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

Saving A Parents Life Passport aye?

That's even worse than the Snp whatever may be passport one.

You've lost the plot imo.

[wookie70]

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Saving A Parents Life Passport aye?

That's even worse than the Snp whatever may be passport one.

You've lost the plot imo.

I never said that. I am saying encouragement and using those who the young may care about may be a better tactic. I would never advocate passports based on personal health decision in Scotland for Scottish citizens. I'll refrain from abusing you

[Stairway 2 7]

Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

20210717_WOC850.jpg

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

[J-C]

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In a large part of the UK population the virus is more likely to be there with those that are double vaxxed.

Just reading the latest NHS Vaccine surveillance on page 14 it states that between the ages of 40 and 79 more people per 100K have Covid that are double vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. My understanding is that is single biggest factor in passing on Covid is having it in the first place to pass on. For the double vaxxed group between 40 and 79 they are more likely to have it and I would like to know why if the vaccines are meant to be effective in stopping catching covid and transmitting why are some of our most vaccinated citizens more likely to have it when double vaxxed. I suppose its all the bairns and unvaccinated people's fault.
⁠
I actually think this is the "superman" factor with governments giving the impression that you can do anything when vaccinated. It should surely be a factor in passports though and taking the advantages of the vaccines and weighing that against a large population where more vaccinated people actually have covid what are the safest cohort. I have said earlier and was called out for saying double vaxxed people had more chance of catching covid from behaviour change. Well if you are between 40 and 79 then these stats must at least give some pause for thought on that.

Absolute nonsense, double jabbed only means you re less likely to die from the virus and hence helps the NHS by not needing to go to hospital. Everyone vaccinated or not can still spread the virus, at the moment the majority of patients are below 50 with a vast majority not vaccinated, that in itself should tell you why getting the jab is important, also the new variants play a big part in this.

[calumhibee1]

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Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

20210717_WOC850.jpg

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

It’s time to stop pandering to the folk who don’t want it cause they’ve read that their pal with a foundation level qualification in silly science says it’s dangerous.

If they don’t want to get the vaccine then get them to **** away from everyone else so that people who have done their bit can start getting treatments for other illnesses that are going to end up killing them because they won’t get treated in time. Why will they not get treated in time? Because of the outrageously disproportionate number of unvaccinated people putting a strain on the NHS.

The vaccine passports don’t go nearly far enough imo and should be extended to bars and restaurants, flights etc as well.

[green day]

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Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

20210717_WOC850.jpg

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

Good post, and you are right about France, the uptick in vaccinations was remarkable.

Regarding the hospitalisations, I am friends with a couple of doctors and they have been saying for weeks that - the old and people with pre-existing conditions excluded - basically the only people in ITU and with serious Covid are unvaccinated (you mention 75%, sounds about right).

As you point out, due to them taking up hospital beds, someones relative cant get hip surgery - it is unutterably selfish and the doctors I know would go somewhat further than our government has to date and have unprintable words for these idiots.

One thing is for sure, if we dont want more lockdowns, then proving vaccination or previous infections will be the way we get back to normality.

People complaining about this are pissing in the wind and deserve no sympathy, no additional measures or time and certainly no ****ing refunds from Hibs.

[Brightside]

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I'm not sure, you have to weigh the greater likelihood of a person aged 40-79 who is vaccinated having covid against their reduced chance of them passing it on.

Either way you are more likely to get it from an unvaccinated younger person so probably not. When you get it you want to be vaccinated, the reports further down make that very clear but again for youngsters we are talking about a few chances in a million and they put themselves at far greater risk drinking and taking drugs to excess. Not sure passports will convince that cohort to be vaccinated. Yes, you could appeal to them to help older people but given older people have shafted the young for the last few decades that may be a big ask. Better a campaign about how getting a vaccination could save your parents life if they can't be vaccinated, or similar, than a passport system in my view.

All of this must be viewed alongside far more positive ways such as better track and trace systems and proper restrictions in indoor close contact venues potentially having a far greater impact on teh virus and positive impact on public health.

Young people are spreading it more than most. I know very few people my age that have had it (a hand full). But a majority of my kids friends have all had it since clubs etc reopened.

[El Gubbz]

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My son is actually in the situation you mention and will now be unlikely to be able to go to the Israel match. He probably has more antibodies than me and works in a McDonalds which is deemed perfectly safe. He would now be double vaxxed if he hadn't caught it.

What about those that turn 18 in October. They could be allowed to go to a game on Saturday and be denied entry on Wednesday when only their age is the determining factor. Could that be deemed age discrimination. It certainly feels like it is.

Yeah that’s not fair at all. I’d have thought the vaccination passport would have possibly recorded the date we contracted covid and based on the assumed anti body levels we would have a valid vaccine passport until X date as we’re as safe as anyone else and clearly have the intention to be vaccinated.

Kinda get sick of the argument being made by older posters on their high horse assuming everyone not double vaccinated is an anti vaxer / ignorant / lazy. Some of us had the opportunity to skip the queue to claim we were carers for family members but decided that it wasn’t fair to skip the queue if letters were being sent out in order of priority.

If a vaccine passport is going to come in with such little time to implement they need to have a level of leniency towards those who are single vaccinated and awaiting their 2nd. If someone gets a vaccine today based on the guidance they won’t be allowed into a game until November 19th missing 6 weeks of normality.

My (bias I admit) preference would be to have a vaccine passport coming in on October 1st to prove you’ve had your first dose, with a full vaccine certificate going live on November 19th, if still required, that requires you to be double jagged - and some flexibility for those who turn 18 in the interim

[El Gubbz]

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Walk in centres started the first week of July there is no excuse for anyone.

France gave there public a couple of weeks warning before they started using it . It worked unbelievably well, millions got vaccinated the next few days. Can you spot the announcement in the chart

20210717_WOC850.jpg

Three quarters of hospitalisations are in unvaccinated absolutely selfish twats. Doctors and nurses are shattered and have to deal with these pricks. Operations can't be done also, cancer screening too. People are dying because of their choice. Its my choice to get vaccinated doesn't cut it, all restrictions would stop being thought about if 3/4 weren't going to hospital.

8% of the adult population chose not to get vaccinated. They are in the younger groups, but still filling up our hospitals and message boards with bleatings. Crying that they can't go to football good, good get vaccinated and help our nhs and our society twats

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58494842

They did but if you got vaccinated early July, caught it when due your 2nd in early September then have to wait until early October you will be locked out for the first couple games as takes 2 weeks for your second Jag to be valid on the certificate.

It’s bad luck but it’s a perfectly good “excuse” to be annoyed at this being rushed through

[Stokesy's on fire]

Sturgeon = Scotland's Thatcher

[HFCdeb]

What does this mean in terms of refunds on ST? Is it a case of just contacting the Club?