Matt Macey

[Hibee Mac]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Problem with GK stats part one
1. Judging what is an ‘error’ is subjective. If we go by what football pundits say I’d only agree with them 1 time out of 10. Even opta can’t really be trusted.
2. % stats are much better than absolute stats but you hardly ever see them. A keeper who plays behind ten poor teammates is always going to concede more shots and more errors than someone who plays in front of a better team.
3. Some keepers have a busier style that lends them to more saves, interceptions, crosses claimed but also more mistakes. Lloris is a good example, the classic sweeper keeper, comes out for lots of through balls and crosses and will make a few VISIBLE mistakes. De Gea is risk averse, but when he doesn’t come out, it might not be a visible error but he hasn’t helped his team and so might indirectly to a goal. So he gets let off by the pundit.

There’s lots more

Edit-confused subjective and objective there. Clear error.

Good points, like this. Sounds like you need to come up with a better way to analyse goalies and sell it to sky/bt

[Smartie]

Neither of the goals were comfortable viewing but I agree with whoever made the point that they lie somewhere in that vast area between “Macey did nothing wrong” and “howler from the goalkeeper”.

The first one seems to have 3 or 4 of our players just watching it go in but it’s hard to pick any one out and say that they should have done more.

The second irritates me more. We’d played well early on in the game and put 4 or 5 very good balls into the Motherwell box. A combination of solid defending and lack of something on our part to get on the end of them meant that we didn’t score from any of them. Their second goal came from a basic lump into the box, and I just find it harder to accept that we shouldn’t be expecting to deal better with the cross.

Eyes will be on Macey now but I’ve been quite happy with him so far and would probably be happy going with him. He had other good moments in the match and I think the fact that we had a 6ft7 goalkeeper will have been in the minds of their players taking penalties.

I also don’t think it would be very clever of Ross to go back on his word if he’s promised Macey all the cup games.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Neither of the goals were comfortable viewing but I agree with whoever made the point that they lie somewhere in that vast area between “Macey did nothing wrong” and “howler from the goalkeeper”.

The first one seems to have 3 or 4 of our players just watching it go in but it’s hard to pick any one out and say that they should have done more.


The second irritates me more. We’d played well early on in the game and put 4 or 5 very good balls into the Motherwell box. A combination of solid defending and lack of something on our part to get on the end of them meant that we didn’t score from any of them. Their second goal came from a basic lump into the box, and I just find it harder to accept that we shouldn’t be expecting to deal better with the cross.

Eyes will be on Macey now but I’ve been quite happy with him so far and would probably be happy going with him. He had other good moments in the match and I think the fact that we had a 6ft7 goalkeeper will have been in the minds of their players taking penalties.

I also don’t think it would be very clever of Ross to go back on his word if he’s promised Macey all the cup games.

Yes I agree with you and pretty boy on that. There’s a clear error and there’s a maybe could have done better. We could call it a ‘whits the keeper daein Tam’ and the ‘He’ll be wondering if he could have done better there, Brian’ mistake.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Good points, like this. Sounds like you need to come up with a better way to analyse goalies and sell it to sky/bt

I think just having an elite goalkeeper or goalkeeping coach on occasionally would be a big step forward.

I like Gary Neville as a pundit and he was obviously a top player but there are times when you get the 'I want my keeper dealing with that' stuff from him. It would be good to hear a counter argument from an informed position. I daresay a couple of all time greats like Schmeichel and Van Der Sar weren't going to to Neville for assessment of their performance when they were team mates.

It isn't necessarily about having someone say the keeper is never at fault but rather giving informed opinion on what kind of things the keeper and their coaching team will assess when looking back at a conceded goal. It's probably quite different from what a lot of people expect.

[MrRobot]

It’s a hard call for me having seen them back, they most definitely are not howlers but i feel he could have done better on them.

That said, the defence was awful on both.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It’s a hard call for me having seen them back, they most definitely are not howlers but i feel he could have done better on them.

That said, the defence was awful on both.

As I've posted elsewhere, he certainly didn't look too clever for the first but I don't think he could have got to it anyway.

The 2nd for me is definitely down to the defence. With that said, it maybe wouldn't have happened had Macey had more matches with the defence to develop an understanding.

[blackpoolhibs]

Having watched the goals again, i'm not convinced he could have done anything with either goal. I'd like to see them from behind the goal though, but i dont think he could get anywhere near them from what i've seen.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Goalies are always the fall guys and need to be strong characters. It's a fair point that saving the ball is their job, but if everyone else had done their jobs then Macey wouldn't have had to do his.

[Centre Hawf]

I’m not feeling it with Macey. Was it all his fault and were they actual howlers? No.

But I’m not filled with confidence he’s a number 1 at this level, especially if we want to kick on.

[lord bunberry]

I agree with the people saying they weren’t howlers but he could’ve done better. I find it hard to believe that anyone could watch the first goal and think he’s blameless, it was like he was anticipating a touch that never came. I’m sure he’ll be disappointed with himself for conceding that as better positioning would have led to a comfortable save. The second goal looks worse because he didn’t make an effort to save it, but he wouldn’t have got it anyway.

[BILLYHIBS]

Let’s get back to the full backs on each post to boot the ba away

😃

[Hibrandenburg]

I think for their first goal he was convinced it was going wide, he actually starts to lift his left hand and prepares to try and make the save but stops before the ball goes in. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt and accepting he thought he had no chance of getting to the ball and therefore didn't bother trying asks questions about his own self believe. For the second I think a keeper with reasonable reflexes might have got to it with his feet and again Macey seemed to have made his mind up that he was not getting to that ball. Maybe I'm expecting too much from him but for me standing still without even trying to make the save is not an option, a good keeper has to at least try and make the impossible possible and not just accept he's been beaten.

[hibbysam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Having watched the goals again, i'm not convinced he could have done anything with either goal. I'd like to see them from behind the goal though, but i dont think he could get anywhere near them from what i've seen.

If you can watch Sportscene the third angle is from behind the goal, shows his positioning quite clearly for the second. He’s just the last error in a catalogue of them though.

[Hibee Mac]

I just rewatched the 2 goals there and sorry but Macey deserves criticism for both. As I said before not 100% at fault but definitely played his part.

I'm convinced Marciano saves that first one, 2nd one is more of a 50/50 between defenders and Maceys fault for me.

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I just rewatched the 2 goals there and sorry but Macey deserves criticism for both. As I said before not 100% at fault but definitely played his part.

I'm convinced Marciano saves that first one, 2nd one is more of a 50/50 between defenders and Maceys fault for me.

Martin Boyle is more to blame for the 2nd than anyone. Gave it away stupidly under little pressure and then doesn't even challenge Watt, lets him round the back without shouting or going with. Terrible from him.

I struggle to blame a keeper when its a free header from 8 yards.

First one is a bit of a fluke goal that catches Macey out.

[ACLeith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Let’s get back to the full backs on each post to boot the ba away

😃

Both my son and I were goalies. I was having this discussion with him a while ago. I said that I insisted on a defender on each post, not the tall guys as in those days if necessary they would jump and stop it with their hands, give the pen away but not get a red card. He said that was so old fashioned and that you needed as many as possible to mark attacking jumpers.

Every time I saw a goal go in at the post I just looked at him and smiled knowingly.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Both my son and I were goalies. I was having this discussion with him a while ago. I said that I insisted on a defender on each post, not the tall guys as in those days if necessary they would jump and stop it with their hands, give the pen away but not get a red card. He said that was so old fashioned and that you needed as many as possible to mark attacking jumpers.

Every time I saw a goal go in at the post I just looked at him and smiled knowingly.

Lost count of the number of balls I kicked off the line in my playing days

Now my other pet peeve was playing with gash goalkeepers

[ekhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Martin Boyle is more to blame for the 2nd than anyone. Gave it away stupidly under little pressure and then doesn't even challenge Watt, lets him round the back without shouting or going with. Terrible from him.

I struggle to blame a keeper when its a free header from 8 yards.

First one is a bit of a fluke goal that catches Macey out.

This.

[Lago]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think just having an elite goalkeeper or goalkeeping coach on occasionally would be a big step forward.

I like Gary Neville as a pundit and he was obviously a top player but there are times when you get the 'I want my keeper dealing with that' stuff from him. It would be good to hear a counter argument from an informed position. I daresay a couple of all time greats like Schmeichel and Van Der Sar weren't going to to Neville for assessment of their performance when they were team mates.

It isn't necessarily about having someone say the keeper is never at fault but rather giving informed opinion on what kind of things the keeper and their coaching team will assess when looking back at a conceded goal. It's probably quite different from what a lot of people expect.

Excellent summary, thank you.

[Callum_62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Martin Boyle is more to blame for the 2nd than anyone. Gave it away stupidly under little pressure and then doesn't even challenge Watt, lets him round the back without shouting or going with. Terrible from him.

I struggle to blame a keeper when its a free header from 8 yards.

First one is a bit of a fluke goal that catches Macey out.

You can see from Boyle reaction he knows he's mucked up

A free header form 8 yards from a floated cross is the only question against macey there

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Both my son and I were goalies. I was having this discussion with him a while ago. I said that I insisted on a defender on each post, not the tall guys as in those days if necessary they would jump and stop it with their hands, give the pen away but not get a red card. He said that was so old fashioned and that you needed as many as possible to mark attacking jumpers.

Every time I saw a goal go in at the post I just looked at him and smiled knowingly.

The other argument is that having a guy on the line often serves only to keep the attacking team onside when there’s a stramash in the goalmouth. and the ball gets bundled in. Went out of fashion with time.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Having watched the goals again, i'm not convinced he could have done anything with either goal. I'd like to see them from behind the goal though, but i dont think he could get anywhere near them from what i've seen.

He certainly didn’t get anywhere near them. I think we can all agree on that.

[ACLeith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The other argument is that having a guy on the line often serves only to keep the attacking team onside when there’s a stramash in the goalmouth. and the ball gets bundled in. Went out of fashion with time.

I agree it's gone out of fashion but that doesn't mean it's a good move. Of course I've no stats to back up my argument but when's that ever stopped anyone on here 🤔

[McD]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree it's gone out of fashion but that doesn't mean it's a good move. Of course I've no stats to back up my argument but when's that ever stopped anyone on here 🤔

Liverpool play a variant of it at corners, Robertson is always at the front post but about 3-6 yards out, Alexander-Arnold the same at the back post, and they then have the flexibility to drop to the post if necessary, or adapt to whatever situation comes out of the corner

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree it's gone out of fashion but that doesn't mean it's a good move. Of course I've no stats to back up my argument but when's that ever stopped anyone on here 🤔

You might be right, there’s arguments both ways.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Liverpool play a variant of it at corners, Robertson is always at the front post but about 3-6 yards out, Alexander-Arnold the same at the back post, and they then have the flexibility to drop to the post if necessary, or adapt to whatever situation comes out of the corner

That's how I always liked to set up.

It stops the ball being whipped in at the near post as well as the player at the front can cut it out.

[Jones28]

I like Macey, i think for all his faults at the goals yesterday, and I do think there were faults of his, the defending was equally poor, this will be a case of not knowing what we’ve got till it’s gone with Marciano.

[Andy74]

There should be no question now of having a cup goalkeeper. Best team possible. Too much at stake.

[Big_Franck]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There should be no question now of having a cup goalkeeper. Best team possible. Too much at stake.

Agreed. Massive opportunity so we need to go full strength.

[Hibee Mac]

Marciano must play in the remaining games in the cup. Not worth risking giving Macey any more time in the sticks, give him the last couple of league games just not the one of cup games