European super league

[SHODAN]

Lol

[WeeRussell]

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Yes, if the owners refuse to sell you must punish them somehow. Just my first choice wouldn't be to punish the clubs. If you do it like this, it puts massive pressure on owners.

I agree, I would prefer if the owners were the only ones that were reprimanded but not sure how realistic it is to punish owners without effecting the club with something like this.

[jacomo]

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Why didn't you say that in the first place?

Someone using hyperbole on a football forum?

Well I am SHOCKED. Never mind the super league, something should be done about this.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Agnelli of Juventus saying today that the behind the scenes political pressure was immense and it was made clear immediately that every obstacle possible was going to put in the ESL way.

It will be sold as 'bowing to fan pressure" but European and English politicians played "an absolute blinder' here.✅

UEFA aren't the heroes but they are the major beneficiaries and they know have a golden opportunity to bring some sanity and fairness into European football competitions.

[Smartie]

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Agnelli of Juventus saying today that the behind the scenes political pressure was immense and it was made clear immediately that every obstacle possible was going to put in the ESL way.

It will be sold as 'bowing to fan pressure" but European and English politicians played "an absolute blinder' here.✅

UEFA aren't the heroes but they are the major beneficiaries and they know have a golden opportunity to earn a grubby little fortune themselves now this has been kicked into touch.

Fixed that for you.

[Andy74]

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There’s a fundamental difference between trying to make money within the rules of the game, and trying to change the rules of the game because you want to be even richer.

This applies in all walks of life. Stop being blinkered to what’s happening here.

I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

[blackpoolhibs]

I personally think they deserve some sort of punishment. 3year ban from Europe sounds about right to me.

The shameful 6 have been so deceitful, going behind everyones back while knowing what deals the 20 clubs have in the pipeline.

The should either back up their views now, or accept what punishment is forthcoming and STFU.

[nonshinyfinish]

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I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

I partly agree with this, in that the various changes that led to the existing CL have often been to skew things further in favour of the elite, and that the direction of travel for future changes (the 'Swiss' setup with expanded groups, 'historical' coefficients to make it less likely that elite teams don't qualify, etc) appear to lead to a pretty similar place to the proposed ESL.

If people are angry about the ESL, I think they should be equally angry about those changes. If UEFA are left to their own devices, I think there's a reasonable chance we'll end up with more or less the same thing eventually, just still under UEFA's control and with the changes happening incrementally.

I'm not sure I agree it was an over-reaction though – if someone was saying 'the current CL is great and fair, the ESL would be unfair' then, yes, that's an over-reaction and divorced from reality. However, where the main objection was to the concept of certain teams having guaranteed entry, I don't think it's an over-reaction. I think the strength of outcry is partly because it was proposed as a single big change – in theory it shouldn't make any difference, but in reality a single sudden change is easy for people to contrast with the current situation (and with whatever they view as the ideal situation), whereas UEFA's incremental changes are less likely to cross a single point where there is broad simultaneous agreement that it's a bad thing. This makes it harder for any form of opposition or protest to coalesce. The phrase 'boiling a frog' springs to mind.

[jacomo]

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I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

I’m not for a minute suggesting the current set up is perfect or particularly fair. Both UEFA and FIFA are corrupt in my view.

I am, however, pleased that for once fans seem to have halted the seemingly relentless power and money grab by the richest clubs.

You seem desperate to cast doubt on every single concern people have expressed.

Again, I’d like to ask if you have a vested interest here, because many of your comments on here seem like trolling.

[Scouse Hibee]

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All six premier league teams withdraw from the proposed Super League.

Which was inevitable, it was never getting off the ground.

[007]

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Would Hibs be included?

Us and Brora.

[Andy74]

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I’m not for a minute suggesting the current set up is perfect or particularly fair. Both UEFA and FIFA are corrupt in my view.

I am, however, pleased that for once fans seem to have halted the seemingly relentless power and money grab by the richest clubs.

You seem desperate to cast doubt on every single concern people have expressed.

Again, I’d like to ask if you have a vested interest here, because many of your comments on here seem like trolling.

That’s a bit of a bizarre question / comment.

I just happen to like to look at both sides of things and occasionally to challenge what is really behind thinking. I don’t really think I’ve engaged much on this thread and the trolling comment is a bit pathetic.

The over reaction bit I think is that it has been taken that this was an attempt to completely change football, including domestically, and that things like winning, losing, promotion, relegation were being challenged.

It wasn’t really all about that - it was purely about replacing the participation in the Champions League - which as a few have agreed with has itself changed the rules before to look after certain clubs.

As I said earlier I don’t think suggesting that in future there doesn’t have to be a big European tournament that you qualify for by your league placing is that controversial. Nothing really stays relevant forever.

There was a huge reaction, they backed down quickly. Perhaps with a bit more of a careful lead in and some measured discussion on it then the point about whether the Champions League was still a relevant thing in itself would have led to better context for then moving on to alternative proposals.

[jacomo]

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That’s a bit of a bizarre question / comment.

I just happen to like to look at both sides of things and occasionally to challenge what is really behind thinking. I don’t really think I’ve engaged much on this thread and the trolling comment is a bit pathetic.

The over reaction bit I think is that it has been taken that this was an attempt to completely change football, including domestically, and that things like winning, losing, promotion, relegation were being challenged.

It wasn’t really all about that - it was purely about replacing the participation in the Champions League - which as a few have agreed with has itself changed the rules before to look after certain clubs.

As I said earlier I don’t think suggesting that in future there doesn’t have to be a big European tournament that you qualify for by your league placing is that controversial. Nothing really stays relevant forever.

There was a huge reaction, they backed down quickly. Perhaps with a bit more of a careful lead in and some measured discussion on it then the point about whether the Champions League was still a relevant thing in itself would have led to better context for then moving on to alternative proposals.

You’re back to saying things that are factually untrue. The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.

Seems like everyone else can see this, why can’t you? You either have a huge blind spot here or are simply at it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Lol

9AA0B3CB-639C-43B6-AE61-14B42D254E4D.jpg

[Hibbyradge]

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Someone using hyperbole on a football forum?

Well I am SHOCKED. Never mind the super league, something should be done about this.

I was joking.

[Andy74]

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You’re back to saying things that are factually untrue. The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.

Seems like everyone else can see this, why can’t you? You either have a huge blind spot here or are simply at it.

Nah, and your suggestion I had a vested interest in a European Super League was beyond bizarre.

What I said was factually true.

You don’t get promoted or relegated from European competition. As it stands you qualify based on your league position.

Comments similar to yours have given the impression they were trying to change football from having promotion or relegation. It wouldn’t have domestically.

Qualifying by league position is just the way that European competition works just now. That doesn’t mean it will work that way forever. If the competing clubs think at some stage that it has run its course then another type of competition with different rules to get in is possible.

I wouldn’t set it up that way but I think the reaction is a bit out of proportion when it was just about a different way of having a European competition.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Nah, and your suggestion I had a vested interest in a European Super League was beyond bizarre.

What I said was factually true.

You don’t get promoted or relegated from European competition. As it stands you qualify based on your league position.

Comments similar to yours have given the impression they were trying to change football from having promotion or relegation. It wouldn’t have domestically.

Qualifying by league position is just the way that European competition works just now. That doesn’t mean it will work that way forever. If the competing clubs think at some stage that it has run its course then another type of competition with different rules to get in is possible.

I wouldn’t set it up that way but I think the reaction is a bit out of proportion when it was just about a different way of having a European competition.

It was completely different. The twelve founding clubs would run it themselves for their own benefit. Those twelve would always be involved, regardless of their domestic league position. They had taken it upon themselves to decide they were the most important clubs in Europe and they would be involved no matter what, 'inviting' five other clubs each year, based upon God know what criteria. That's what would have destroyed the pyramid system. Arsenal, for example, finish tenth in the league but are still in the Super League. They would each have an additional 400 million euros per year, keeping all income between themselves, which they then wanted to use to further destroy any competition in their domestic leagues.

I think the outrage has been fully justified. It would have dismantled the game we know, which is already skewed in the favour of the richest.

[Andy74]

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It was completely different. The twelve founding clubs would run it themselves for their own benefit. Those twelve would always be involved, regardless of their domestic league position. They had taken it upon themselves to decide they were the most important clubs in Europe and they would be involved no matter what, 'inviting' five other clubs each year, based upon God know what criteria. They would each have an additional 400 million euros per year, keeping all income between themselves, which they then wanted to use to further destroy any competition in their domestic leagues.

I think the outrage has been fully justified. It would have dismantled the game we know, which is already skewed in the favour of the richest.

Yes, completely different, of course.

The Champions League might last forever, and people might watch it in numbers forever. They might not though and it could be that a tournament played by clubs who have decided they are the biggest playing in a league set up is something that replaces it instead.

The issue has been comparing like for like - it is a step away from a tournament you qualified for by league placing to something else. Yes, something totally different.

The point about making even more money is a fair one - but the EPL and Champions League already started that one running a long time ago.

[ballengeich]

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The proposal was a direct challenge to the principle of promotion / relegation. It was akin to an American franchise model with a closed league, perhaps augmented with a few guest clubs each season.

Yes, and they'll be back with a more subtle proposition before too long. Meanwhile the ever-increasing dominance of the English league will continue to progress.

[WeeRussell]

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I don’t think that’s true.

The previous changes to the champions League for example were changes to the rules and were designed to make the regular participant clubs richer and to perpetuate their involvement in it. They got further changes in this week that also change the rules so that teams that finish lower than other teams but have a good record will get in instead.

So, let’s not pretend rules don’t get changed.

In any case this wasn’t an attempt really to change the rules, it was an attempt to not enter one competition and instead create another, with rules that the group who want to join are entitled to set.

It didn’t work but that is not to say that the concept that there is a European competition that you get into by finishing high up in your league needs to stand forever.

There was a big reaction, i think a lot of it was over reaction that really didn’t fit what was actually being proposed.

If the reaction didn’t fit what was being proposed - why didn’t those involved come out and explain what they were proposing, rather than ****ting out of it and withdrawing within a couple of days?

Shower of cowardly, greedy b****ards tried to push through their own agenda to make a few extra quid without any regard for the game or the people that matter within it. Remaining faceless and gutless throughout.

Like another poster alluded to, I find it strange you’re STILL trying to defend them and brush-off their actions as no different to anything else we’ve seen in football.

[Andy74]

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If the reaction didn’t fit what was being proposed - why didn’t those involved come out and explain what they were proposing, rather than ****ting out of it and withdrawing within a couple of days?

Shower of cowardly, greedy b****ards tried to push through their own agenda to make a few extra quid without any regard for the game or the people that matter within it. Remaining faceless and gutless throughout.

Like another poster alluded to, I find it strange you’re STILL trying to defend them and brush-off their actions as no different to anything else we’ve seen in football.

They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.

[WeeRussell]

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They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.

Okay I’ll play along a bit longer...

It was reported that they wanted to see LESS football, not more. How does that work if they wanted to keep all the traditional competitions. Also noted that they would be “secretly delighted” if players were banned from playing in world cups and euro competitions.

In addition it was admitted “maximising revenue and profit is our priority. The good of the game is secondary.”

I’m not sure if you just enjoy debate that much that you’re deliberately failing to see 99.9% of the footballing world’s point of view?

[Andy74]

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Okay I’ll play along a bit longer...

It was reported that they wanted to see LESS football, not more. How does that work if they wanted to keep all the traditional competitions. Also noted that they would be “secretly delighted” if players were banned from playing in world cups and euro competitions.

In addition it was admitted “maximising revenue and profit is our priority. The good of the game is secondary.”

I’m not sure if you just enjoy debate that much that you’re deliberately failing to see 99.9% of the footballing world’s point of view?

On the last point, yes, but most of the world are idiots so that doesn’t bother me.

I do see the view but also that it got taken to degrees that weren’t there. Scrapping relegation and promotion is still being talked about on this thread and has nothing to do with this.

Most of football is about maximising revenue - have people just clocked this during this week?

Never thought the Champions League would be so popular.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Good stuff rom John Barnes: did the fans stop the ESL?

[JeMeSouviens]

UEFA coming under pressure to change some of the ***** they were bringing in to try and keep the Super-Duper clubs happy (which didn't work anyway, obvs).

https://www.theguardian.com/football...h-super-league

[jacomo]

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They probably should have, but they didn’t go about this very well, clearly.

They possibly should have just said what they wanted to do - scrap the champions League as we don’t see anyone caring about it long term and we’d prefer to use the midweeks to do something totally different and play a tournament with some invited teams as we think that will be popular in the future.

That’s it really wasn’t it? They weren’t trying to stop all the other fundamental things that people love about football across every other competition that would still be played.

I think you’re very credulous, truth be told. The implications of the super league are pretty clear and have been explored extensively in recent days. Most fans saw it for what it was.

Anyhow, I’ve said enough on this. I’m back to my job, which allows me to work from home for only five days a month and earns me on average £300k a year. It’s so easy and anyone could do it. Let me know if you want in.

[Onion]

Love this bit from Perez ...

"Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

Football doesn't need saving. Some of the greediest clubs do. But that's a Hell of their own making.

He thinks the game should be distilled into a handful of exhibition matches between the top 12-15 clubs to try reengage the paying TV audience. So where do you go once "young people" get bored of that, as they surely will ? It is a slap in the jaw to all those attending fans who have supported these clubs for decades and arguably have been just as important as the players in making football the exciting game it is. Let the Super League try selling their proposition without crowds !

This guy is a tool, completely out of touch with football and what it means to all those who attend games week in week out. He's the very last person the game needs at the helm.

[Onion]

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UEFA coming under pressure to change some of the ***** they were bringing in to try and keep the Super-Duper clubs happy (which didn't work anyway, obvs).

https://www.theguardian.com/football...h-super-league

The less than veiled threat of breakaway by these clubs over the last few years has pushed UEFA along a path to destruction of the game. Now that the teeth of these 12 clubs have been pulled, UEFA is free to do the right thing for the good of the game as a whole. The Dirty Dozen will HATE that as it will reduce their revenue, but they're snookered.

[Pagan Hibernia]

At the very least they should scrap the additional co-efficient places as punishment.

and also because it would be the right thing to do.

[jacomo]

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Love this bit from Perez ...

"Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

Football doesn't need saving. Some of the greediest clubs do. But that's a Hell of their own making.

He thinks the game should be distilled into a handful of exhibition matches between the top 12-15 clubs to try reengage the paying TV audience. So where do you go once "young people" get bored of that, as they surely will ? It is a slap in the jaw to all those attending fans who have supported these clubs for decades and arguably have been just as important as the players in making football the exciting game it is. Let the Super League try selling their proposition without crowds !

This guy is a tool, completely out of touch with football and what it means to all those who attend games week in week out. He's the very last person the game needs at the helm.

If they want more young people to watch football, make it less expensive.

If that means Perez can’t sign Mbappe for €200m on wages of €1m a week... **** him.

Perez is an absolute parasite.