European super league

[Peevemor]

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I do, yes. 30+ years ago. Liverpool have won it twice in the last 15 years without qualifying through being league winners. Surely that is an example of it offering a chance to an underdog and not just league winners?

These sides don't even do well in the Europa league never mind the champions league.

Underdogs maybe but hardly a major shock. Their average wage is £5.5m per year. That's our entire wage bill - players, coaches, admin, the lot.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...4c8faec9156742

To be honest I thought it all could be a bargaining chip for a new champs league. But this times article refutes that, 23 year contracts already signed by all clubs

[Bristolhibby]

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That's like saying there should be qualifying rounds for the Scottish Cup - and the PL sides get a bye into the last 16.

The point of football, sport, (life?) is that the little guy gets a shot against the big guy - and you know what, sometimes they win.

The Latvian champions might get beaten 8 - 0 by Barcelona - but that guy will have achieved playing against Messi - and that is great. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make a good tv show.

We do that in the League Cup.

European qualified teams miss the early groups. Bye straight into the knockouts.

Before then it was seeded in the early round.

But at least it’s a competition to get those byes.

Having the “founding 12” is a joke.

J

[Antifa Hibs]

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I do, yes. 30+ years ago. Liverpool have won it twice in the last 15 years without qualifying through being league winners. Surely that is an example of it offering a chance to an underdog and not just league winners?

These sides don't even do well in the Europa league never mind the champions league.

Why have these clubs not done so well compared to the English, Spanish and German's? Maybe all commercial revenue should be put in one big European fitba pot and split evenly amongst all countries on a pro-rata basis? After-all Gary Neville, Uefa and Sky Sports are all about fair competition aren't they


I still find the outrage at this laughable. We are in an age where a finger nail can make you offside after 10 minutes of delays from reviewing footage, football clubs listed on the stock exchange, football clubs selling tickets direct to rich foreign "fans" directly by-passing locals, clubs taking friendlies all over the world, billions and billions being transferred for TV rights and sponsorship deals, players being paid £250k a week, hospitality boxes costing a hundred grand, the list is endless. Yet people are surprised something like this is happening. The most ironic thing aswell is its Sky Sports and their employees leading the way to "save football" despite them having *****d football more than everyone else has combined! Couldn't make it up.

Hope it happens. Hope the EPL suffers. Hope the CL suffers. Hope Sky & BT suffer. **** them all

[Peevemor]

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We do that in the League Cup.

European qualified teams miss the early groups. Bye straight into the knockouts.

Before then it was seeded in the early round.

But at least it’s a competition to get those byes.

Having the “founding 12” is a joke.

J

They seem to change the format of the league cup every 5 minutes.

[Bristolhibby]

Neville made a good point last night.

It’s all about the mobiles, selllibg a product to 150m people world wide at a pound a game, consume it on your phone.

Man U et al, trouser £150m every second week.

Then want to rock up in the Premiership. Joke!

J

[Antifa Hibs]

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Neville made a good point last night.

It’s all about the mobiles, selllibg a product to 150m people world wide at a pound a game, consume it on your phone.

Man U et al, trouser £150m every second week.

Then want to rock up in the Premiership. Joke!

J

How we consume are media will rapidly change. Sky Sports models are outdated for the younger generation. They don't want to commit and pay a fortune for stuff they don't use, ie £30 for Sky Sports a month which is good value if you watch football, golf, F1 and whatever else they show. Not so good value if you're 20 year old and want to watch City twice a month.

Matchroom boxing's deal is up with Sky Sports soon and there is every chance Eddie Hearn could go with the streaming platform DAZN. If that's the case I don't think boxing will be the last sport to broadcast via streaming.

[Crunchie]

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That's because champions league is a marketing name, nothing to do with being champions. Would you actually prefer to watch the Latvian champions lose 8-0 to Barcelona than say, Atletico vs Inter Milan?

If you think the champions league, that everyone can qualify for, is the same as a closed shop super league, you are way off the mark.

The European Cup pitted the champions of each country, it gave the minnows a chance over 2 legs to take on the big boys, the tournament was about any cup competition, the luck of the draw. I think you're the one way off the mark and it's not about what I or anyone else wants to watch, you're obviously in agreement with the big boys and a closed shop because that's where it was always going from day 1.

[MWHIBBIES]

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So bin them, don't let them compete? I see. Why not just have Barcelona v Man City 20 times a season then? It is all about greed, they don't give a **** about the "product". I have seen games with Hibs that were as enjoyable as some with these so called elite teams.

No, they do get to compete, and if they keep improving etc, they get to compete at a higher level every year. It might be about greed but its the headline tournament, it should be the best sides.

In the world cup, do you watch when Morocco play South Korea? Or do you watch Brazil vs France? Thats a good example of everyone getting a chance to be in it, and some of the games are absolutely awful.

[HibsGW]

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That's like saying there should be qualifying rounds for the Scottish Cup - and the PL sides get a bye into the last 16.

The point of football, sport, (life?) is that the little guy gets a shot against the big guy - and you know what, sometimes they win.

The Latvian champions might get beaten 8 - 0 by Barcelona - but that guy will have achieved playing against Messi - and that is great. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make a good tv show.

Agree, and also, not to bring them up, but Celtic, champions of plukey wee Scotland, beat Barcelona in the Champions League not so long ago.

[MWHIBBIES]

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The European Cup pitted the champions of each country, it gave the minnows a chance over 2 legs to take on the big boys, the tournament was about any cup competition, the luck of the draw. I think you're the one way off the mark and it's not about what I or anyone else wants to watch, you're obviously in agreement with the big boys and a closed shop because that's where it was always going from day 1.

I'm quite clearly not because I've said multiple times I'm not. How did you get obvious from that?

Even the ones who turned down the super league, like Bayern and Dortmund, are in favour of the CL as it is.

Would you genuinely prefer to watch latvian champions vs gibraltar champions or Dortmund vs Spurs? Seriously? How many qualifying rounds do you currently watch with these sides in it?

[MWHIBBIES]

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Agree, and also, not to bring them up, but Celtic, champions of plukey wee Scotland, beat Barcelona in the Champions League not so long ago.

Theyve lost 7-0 and 6-1 since then.

[HibsGW]

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Theyve lost 7-0 and 6-1 since then.

They have, doesn’t change that they beat them recently though. That type of argument edges towards super league stuff. Aston Villa usually get beat by Liverpool. They beat them this season scoring 7 goals. Do Aston Villa not even deserve the chance to play the big guns because they usually lose to them?

[Crunchie]

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I'm quite clearly not because I've said multiple times I'm not. How did you get obvious from that?

Even the ones who turned down the super league, like Bayern and Dortmund, are in favour of the CL as it is.

Would you genuinely prefer to watch latvian champions vs gibraltar champions or Dortmund vs Spurs? Seriously? How many qualifying rounds do you currently watch with these sides in it?

You obviously don't get it, it's not about what you or I want to watch, it's about fairness of competition. Your argument is all about making money.

I don't watch any of the champions league it interests me not one jot, nor the europa league.

[Dalianwanda]

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No, they do get to compete, and if they keep improving etc, they get to compete at a higher level every year. It might be about greed but its the headline tournament, it should be the best sides.

In the world cup, do you watch when Morocco play South Korea? Or do you watch Brazil vs France? Thats a good example of everyone getting a chance to be in it, and some of the games are absolutely awful.

They arent awful if you come from Morocco or South Korea...Probably the most exciting event of the year for them.

[Wilson]

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They arent awful if you come from Morocco or South Korea...Probably the most exciting event of the year for them.

Plus some of the awful games are the big names you are looking forward to seeing - not always the minnows.

[Since452]

The EPL, UEFA and SKY are all complicit. They've flung money at, and pandered to clubs for too long to the point where x ammount of billions isn't enough anymore. It's not the game I know and love and hasn't been for a long long time. The Champions League and EPL aren't for me. Give me backwater, pub league Scottish football any day of the week over that circus.

[calumhibee1]

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The EPL, UEFA and SKY are all complicit. They've flung money at, and pandered to clubs for too long to the point where x ammount of billions isn't enough anymore. It's not the game I know and love and hasn't been for a long long time. The Champions League and EPL aren't for me. Give me backwater, pub league Scottish football any day of the week over that circus.

Couldn’t agree more with this.

[MWHIBBIES]

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You obviously don't get it, it's not about what you or I want to watch, it's about fairness of competition. You're argument is all about making money.

I don't watch any of the champions league it interests me not one jot, nor the europa league.

I can fully understand and get something and still disagree with it you know. I just think the champions league is well suited with the best sides being in it.

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They arent awful if you come from Morocco or South Korea...Probably the most exciting event of the year for them.

No doubt. Same as its great for Liverpool to win the CL without winning the league. That makes more people happy than the best Latvian side losing to the best Croatian side.

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They have, doesn’t change that they beat them recently though. That type of argument edges towards super league stuff. Aston Villa usually get beat by Liverpool. They beat them this season scoring 7 goals. Do Aston Villa not even deserve the chance to play the big guns because they usually lose to them?

No. Villa have earned the chance to play them. Same as Celtic did Barcelona.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/st...451070464?s=21

Without FIFA on board I think this is dead in the water.


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[HibernianJK]

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If they’re under contract, it’s not like they can just up and leave. They can say that don’t like the idea, absolutely, but that’s about it. Can fit players just refuse to be picked without the club being able to do anything about it? I guess that’s also an option.

Absolutely they can. It’s drastic, the club may fine them, but it’s what’s needed.

[Greenio]

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Well it came from the European cup - the point was that it was the Champions of each country.

That was changed to get more of the bigger teams in it and to keep them in it each year.

Do you realise you are making the same point as the Super League guys that you would rather see the so called bigger teams playing against each other more often that actually open it up to teams getting in there on merit?

Difference is CL is an open tournament - this is closed doors.

I get that not everyone wanted/wants the CL, but I cant understand any real fan wanting this new SL. Given how elitist the whole thing is

[Greenio]

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The thing is they won't care if the genuine fans watch or not. As Gary Neville said if Man Utd sold the TV rights to anyone around the world at £2 a game they'd be making hundreds of millions every single game due to the amount of fans they have round the world.

The genuine fans from Manchester and surrounding areas are a tiny proportion of their worldwide fanbase so they are happy to basically cut them adrift for people in Beijing,Toyko and Texas who have never and will never set foot in Manchester.

Do you have to live in Manchester to be a 'genuine fan'? Not sure that holds right in today's global world.

[Caversham Green]

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...4c8faec9156742

To be honest I thought it all could be a bargaining chip for a new champs league. But this times article refutes that, 23 year contracts already signed by all clubs

As an indication of how things can change in that timescale, 23 years ago Manchester City were in the process of being relegated to English football's third tier. Meanwhile clubs like Blackburn, Coventry and Wimbledon were in the top flight.

[Andy74]

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Difference is CL is an open tournament - this is closed doors.

I get that not everyone wanted/wants the CL, but I cant understand any real fan wanting this new SL. Given how elitist the whole thing is

I think an additional 5 teams a year are to be invited based on league positions?

[Dalianwanda]

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No doubt. Same as its great for Liverpool to win the CL without winning the league. That makes more people happy than the best Latvian side losing to the best Croatian side.
.

Bringing it back to numbers. They joy felt by the individual is similar (maybe more to those who aren’t used to it. By that reckoning Hibs have no business having any aspirations because our fan base isn’t as large as others.

[weecounty hibby]

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I think an additional 5 teams a year are to be invited based on league positions?

Invited being the operative word. So the elite, spurs😂, teams get to choose who they'll let play in their rigged game. **** them

[Since90+2]

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Do you have to live in Manchester to be a 'genuine fan'? Not sure that holds right in today's global world.

Well if you don't live in Manchester, or have family ties from there,why are you not supporting your local team? The reason these clubs have got so powerful is because people follow them rather than their local club.

[Sergio sledge]

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The EPL, UEFA and SKY are all complicit. They've flung money at, and pandered to clubs for too long to the point where x ammount of billions isn't enough anymore. It's not the game I know and love and hasn't been for a long long time. The Champions League and EPL aren't for me. Give me backwater, pub league Scottish football any day of the week over that circus.

This is a really good article, unfortunately behind a paywall: https://theathletic.com/2528673/2021...shared-article

"If nothing else, the weekend just gone has drawn the clearest of lines in the sand between those who like to limit the jeopardy in football and those who like the thrill of the chase.

There is no middle ground here.

You either live for a team like Bielsa’s turning over Manchester City with a man less and just over 20 per cent of the possession or you prefer the carve-up of billions through an invitational model. You either accept the lows which accentuate the highs or you choose a life without either. If you love the sport, you can learn to love 16 years of toil outside the Premier League — because there is barely a single Leeds supporter who would deny that these three years of Bielsa made that long, grim trek worthwhile. The misery of the journey helped make the Bielsa story what it is."

Bielsa also spoke well after the game:

“This should not surprise any of us,” Bielsa said, when pressed on the Super League later. “I think there are structures which should limit the excesses of the big teams. The (authorities) could have anticipated these excesses and avoided them. What happened was inevitable. It happens in all walks of life.

“Some teams are bigger than others but they should be conscious of the fact that we need each other. The real owners of clubs are the ones who love the badge. Without them, football will disappear. This is going to generate a huge polemic. Let’s see who talks up in defence of the fans. Any decision which attacks these people is staking the future (of the game).”

Sadly the horse has already bolted so UEFA, FIFA, SkySports etc. are going to struggle to shut the barn door. They could have stopped this years ago but by relentlessly pursuing money over everything else they have created this monster and there's no way back now IMHO.

The only way this could be headed off is by going nuclear and expelling the club's from all local leagues and banning players from international competitions, but that's never going to happen, FIFA don't want a world cup without Messi, Ronaldo, etc. Sadly the reality is that these 12 clubs could probably accept being banned from their national FA's because of the amount of money they are going to make from this league and the fans will still go to games, maybe not the local die hards, but that's not who the owners care about anyway.

What is likely to happen is that the champions League is reformed again to some sort of compromise where certain clubs are guaranteed qualification every season but there's more opportunity for others to qualify and those guaranteed clubs are given a bigger slice of the money. The club's get their money, UEFA gets its flagship competition which is still "open to all" and the fans will be expected to be grateful for what we are getting.

I fell in love with football watching the champions League in the mid 90s, the era of watching players like del piero, kluivert, Davids, ravanelli, etc. Despite being a bit of a Juventus fan I felt a bit happy seeing Dortmund winning in 1997 as it felt like a proper underdog story at the time.

Even the addition of runners up in 1997 felt like a great thing when you saw Newcastle United beating Barcelona (Figo and Rivaldo) with a hat trick from Tino Asprilla. Unfortunately that was the start of the rot, more and more clubs were added to ensure the biggest clubs qualified every year and leading ultimately to where we are now.

[makaveli1875]

The richest billionaires in the billionaires boys club have ****ed off to join the trillionaires boys club . the rest of the billionaires dont seem too pleased . it will ruin the game if its all about the money they cry from their ivory towers