European super league

[Brummie_Hibs]

https://youtu.be/RPSoD5ruVhY

Surely this is a sign that Hibs are going to be invited?

[Yorkshire HFC]

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Spot on.

It's when Joe's £550 season ticket seat could be sold for £250 per game to wealthy Korean tourists on a Super League package holiday.

There's a big tv market in USA, middle east, China, India etc. - that's what it's about.

By the way - our cup game is at 5pm on a Saturday on a subscription tv channel - while Hibs take the tv money, I bet Tom Hart and Eddie Turnbull wouldn't be happy about it. But we're too far down the line now - the Super League is just the logical follow on from football selling out to the tv companies 20 years ago. We've been warned for years that overseas owners won't look after the traditional fan base...................

[danhibees1875]

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It's not nearly the same if the 'Founding clubs' are firstly given 350 million each and guarenteed entry every year

They could all finish outwith top 4 and still be automatically given entry

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Don't get me wrong, I think it's ridiculous. But it's just the direction of travel Uefa have been taking the game in IMO.

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The issue is because it's about the big teams shafting everyone else to line their own pockets. There will be a knock on effect that will impact all other clubs.

Agreed. It's been that way for a while though. There's maybe been a few more token gestures by way of solidarity payments that could be lost now but the "elite" only looking out for themselves doesn't surprise me much.

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I think the main argument against is that rightly or wrongly the Champions League is now seen as the pinnacle and where the clubs are all trying to get to. This proposal would now stop the likes of Leicester, Everton, whoever from ever getting there.

In practice it was already a pretty self perpetuating competition with the added protection for bigger clubs of getting a good crack at the Europa League if you failed.

I'm assuming the expectation is that UEFA would still run its own competition that you could qualify for but would obviously not be seen in the same light. Were Leicester or Everton ever going to reach the final stages anyway? Doubt it but I suppose it was technically open to them even if it was financially rigged against them.

Don't disagree with any of that. It's basically the champions league is now the Europa, the Europa is now the conference, and the conference is now a 4th tier of European competition.

I agree it's a fundamental issue that clubs can't qualify for what is now the "top tier" - but that was already so limited and difficult as it was that it wasn't ever meant to be the case that teams could merely qualify for the big stage without some serious endevour and fortune, and it was always getting harder and harder.

Uefa have already made it so the top 4 clubs from the top 4 leagues qualify directly into the champions league group stages - from there they are seeded to ensure favourable draws. The money from that makes it more than likely they'll also end up in the top 4 of their domestic league again and the cycle starts over, each loop of the cycle gets them richer and consolidates their position and makes it harder for any other team to break through into the tournament.

Uefa wanted this, they just didn't want someone else to do it.

[BroxburnHibee]

AC Milan:
No league title since 2011.

Inter:
No league title since 2010.

Juventus:
4th in Serie A.

Atletico:
No league title since 2014.

Arsenal:
No league title since 2004.

Chelsea:
5th in the PL.

Man Utd:
No league title since 2013.

Spurs

[danhibees1875]

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Arsenal currently 9th in their league and scraping a draw against Fulham are now guaranteed an equivalent of a CL space with no qualification needed and given access to billions of pounds prizemoney, shafting clubs in their own league who are miles ahead of them at the moment.

Thats the problem with it in my opinion. I only use Arsenal as an example.

I agree it's ridiculous.

[JXM73]

Jose morinho sacked at spuds....

[Magpie]

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Jose morinho sacked at spuds....

Less than a week before a cup final. My guess is that he was against the Super League.

[MWHIBBIES]

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AC Milan:
No league title since 2011.

Inter:
No league title since 2010.

Juventus:
4th in Serie A.

Atletico:
No league title since 2014.

Arsenal:
No league title since 2004.

Chelsea:
5th in the PL.

Man Utd:
No league title since 2013.

Spurs

They are still obviously the biggest clubs, though. Inter and Atletico are on to win titles this year, Chelsea have won a bucket load of trophies over the last 15 years, Arsenal consistantly a top 3/4 club in England since they were formed, AC Milan a historical powerhouse, Man United obviously massive.

The issue isn't the clubs that have been picked, they are all obviously choices, its the idea itself. People seriously cant waste their time joking and memeing about the clubs and not protesting the idea itself. The clubs are only serving themselves, as all businesses do. It must be made clear there will be consequences, both from fans and football authorities for doing it.

[SHODAN]

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AC Milan:
No league title since 2011.

Inter:
No league title since 2010.

Juventus:
4th in Serie A.

Atletico:
No league title since 2014.

Arsenal:
No league title since 2004.

Chelsea:
5th in the PL.

Man Utd:
No league title since 2013.

Spurs

Why do you think they want guaranteed income?

[GreenCastle]

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Less than a week before a cup final. My guess is that he was against the Super League.

He probably would have been sacked ages ago if he didn’t get them to a cup final.

At least give him the final especially with his record of trophies.

Never should have sacked Pochettino.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Don't get me wrong, I think it's ridiculous. But it's just the direction of travel Uefa have been taking the game in IMO.



Agreed. It's been that way for a while though. There's maybe been a few more token gestures by way of solidarity payments that could be lost now but the "elite" only looking out for themselves doesn't surprise me much.



Don't disagree with any of that. It's basically the champions league is now the Europa, the Europa is now the conference, and the conference is now a 4th tier of European competition.

I agree it's a fundamental issue that clubs can't qualify for what is now the "top tier" - but that was already so limited and difficult as it was that it wasn't ever meant to be the case that teams could merely qualify for the big stage without some serious endevour and fortune, and it was always getting harder and harder.

Uefa have already made it so the top 4 clubs from the top 4 leagues qualify directly into the champions league group stages - from there they are seeded to ensure favourable draws. The money from that makes it more than likely they'll also end up in the top 4 of their domestic league again and the cycle starts over, each loop of the cycle gets them richer and consolidates their position and makes it harder for any other team to break through into the tournament.

Uefa wanted this, they just didn't want someone else to do it.

I don't think that's entrirely fair on UEFA. The big clubs have pushed in this direction and threatened breakaway multiple times and each time UEFA have compromised and made the Champs League format more to their liking. I think that model of clubs threaten->UEFA concedes a bit more has finally reached breaking point.

[AgentDaleCooper]

The people on here basically saying "well it's crap, but inevitable"...this is what you get with capitalism. People don't matter, only their wallets matter. It doesn't matter where those wallets are, or who they belong to. It started with the EC becoming the CL, the EPL breaking away from the football league. Teams like ours will continue to be tied to their communities, but within a broken system, glass ceiling firmly and in place and immovable. This step is a mere formalisation, to make sure there's no more anomalies like leicester. The people speaking out about it like Neville...he makes good points based on a foundation of utter hypocrisy. Millionaires angry at billionaires.

[Magpie]

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He probably would have been sacked ages ago if he didn’t get them to a cup final.

At least give him the final especially with his record of trophies.

Never should have sacked Pochettino.

Levy is previously known for having a replacement lined up to come straight in too. The fact they have placed the academy manager as caretaker, sacked Mourinho on the week of a cup final, disrupting the team with only a few games of the season left suggests that there was a fall out over the Super League. I think this might just be the beginning of a fall out amongst many of the squads involved.

[Lendo]

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https://youtu.be/RPSoD5ruVhY

Surely this is a sign that Hibs are going to be invited?

What derby game was that?!

[JeMeSouviens]

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I'm clearly missing something here as I don't really get what the issue is?

Initially I assumed these clubs were leaving their domestic leagues in order to start a new league, something akin to a master league you'd set up on the PlayStation - but it's just a midweek competition similar to the champions league.

I don't really see how it changes much.

The champions league has been edging closer and closer to being a closed off group of teams for ages now, this has just taken it an extra step on from where Uefa have been going themselves. The money driven and elitist priorities of uefa have seen to that by the way they structure these tournaments with qualifying, seeding, and coefficients along with the excessive prize money on offer. They've built the environment where the European competitions, even simply qualifying for them, are more important than domestic duties for these teams.
The same clubs have been reaching the later stages repeatedly, buoyed by the finances of getting there previously or by unsustainable financial backing that uefa turn a blind eye to. They're just upset someone else has came in and used the same tactics they've been using for years against them.

This just feels like another step change rather than a seismic shift in the way elite football cater for themselves.

Not that it makes it any nicer, I'm not defending the decision - just not sure it's anything other than a bit more of the same at the moment.

If you are a Hibs fan it makes next to no difference. Up until the end of the 1980s, we could just about imagine a path to being among the best in Europe. After all, Dundee United and Aberdeen had both just done it. That is long gone for us, but it's not if you are a club in one of the big leagues. If you are, say, a Norwich fan, there's really no reason why your team couldn't be the next Leicester and push up to a CL place. Or any Italian team could be the next Atalanta. Fans in these countries are waking up to what we've had for decades - the door being shut on the dream.

[Ozyhibby]

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The teams aren’t leaving their domestic leagues

The are undermining it though. They are taking away euro qualification. It’s one of its big selling points to broadcasters. ‘The battle for the top 4’. Future TV deal will reflect the fact that it is less competitive and there is nothing to play for for most of the league.


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[Callyballybe]

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Don’t forget the EPL was set up in 1992 as a breakaway from English football league to gain more money and better TV deals...

The irony of fans in England complaining about this is pretty funny to see.

This is where I'm at with it. Some of the supporters down south have taken great delight in laughing at the downfall of Scottish football since we lost any credible TV deal. To see their respective 'bigger' teams looking to prioritise European football to the point where the domestic league could potentially become an afterthought is quite satisfying.

[danhibees1875]

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I don't think that's entrirely fair on UEFA. The big clubs have pushed in this direction and threatened breakaway multiple times and each time UEFA have compromised and made the Champs League format more to their liking. I think that model of clubs threaten->UEFA concedes a bit more has finally reached breaking point.

You may be right, and maybe I am being harsh on Uefa when it's more "elite sport" generally it should be aimed at. Those concessions from Uefa benefit them as well though, they weren't altruistic in their actions to limit the later stages of the CL as much as possible.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The teams aren’t leaving their domestic leagues

Their domestic leagues released a joint statement with UEFA yesterday, saying any clubs involved in the Super League will be emptied from their respective leagues. Huge stakes in play.

[Andy74]

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The are undermining it though. They are taking away euro qualification. It’s one of its big selling points to broadcasters. ‘The battle for the top 4’. Future TV deal will reflect the fact that it is less competitive and there is nothing to play for for most of the league.


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I don’t think they are taking away European competition though - the ‘bigger’ teams just won’t be playing in it.

Ultimately the leagues, the European competitions etc are memberships. These clubs are pretty much entitled to go and start something with like minded teams who want to be members. They have to accept the implications on their ongoing membership of other things though and that is for those bodies to weight up if they could live without them and take some serious calls on that.

[hibsbollah]

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This is where I'm at with it. Some of the supporters down south have taken great delight in laughing at the downfall of Scottish football since we lost any credible TV deal. To see their respective 'bigger' teams looking to prioritise European football to the point where the domestic league could potentially become an afterthought is quite satisfying.

I think this is the equivalent of taking delight at a fire at your neighbours house, even though that fire is going to consume your house too, because you had a smaller fire at your house a while back.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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I think this is the equivalent of taking delight at a fire at your neighbours house, even though that fire is going to consume your house too, because you had a smaller fire at your house a while back.

Exactly

[Billy Whizz]

I’m sure I read somewhere on thread, someone said this won’t affect Hibs
If this goes ahead, what would happen to the existing European competitions?
Surely they won’t run with all 3?

[Callyballybe]

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I think this is the equivalent of taking delight at a fire at your neighbours house, even though that fire is going to consume your house too, because you had a smaller fire at your house a while back.

I think that's a significant exaggeration. If someone has laughed at the financial demise of my football team/league, and then their team goes onto experience something similar due to a drive for more money, I'm not going to deny a sense of schadenfreude. If their private property is up in flames, and something similar happened to me before. I'm certainly not deriving glee from their situation.

I also think it's simply wrong, as I don't think Hibs will be overly affected by this - Of which I could be wrong admittedly - But I'm not convinced we will be.

[Hibs90]

Real Betis have jumped themselves from 6th to 3rd on their website after deleting breakaway clubs from La Liga table.

[660]

Watching elite football eat itself is pretty hilarious tbh

[007]

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Real Betis have jumped themselves from 6th to 3rd on their website after deleting breakaway clubs from La Liga table.

😂 That's what we everyone should do. Refuse to recognise their existence.

[matty_f]

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What's the difference with rangers and celtic leaving our league. A lot of people on here will tell you that's a great thing and that it would be great for us and Scottish football. Are fans of clubs like Villa, Leeds and Newcastle not excited about the chance to win the EPL and a level playing field.
English football will survive. You only need to look at the championship down there to see that. Where I would be concerned is if I was a fan of a mid table Spanish or Italian team.

The difference is that these clubs aren’t looking to leave their domestic leagues. They’re going to get super rich (more super rich) and so will completely dominate their domestic leagues.

If Rangers and Celtic left Scottish football, the rest of us are on a pretty even playing field where the gap between the richest and poorest top Flight teams is big but not overwhelming.

[jacomo]

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Yeah I can't get too excited about hating this either. The game changed a long time ago at the top and this is just a continuation. The Champions League had become nothing like the European cup of old and was largely a closed shop with new proposals set to make that worse anyway.

It’s not a continuation at all but a decisive, once and for all attempt by the biggest clubs to entrench their position forever.

The EPL, Champions League etc were all about a money grab for the largest clubs too, but at least left the door open for other clubs to get involved through promotion or sporting merit.

This is more akin to a closed shop. Don’t dismiss it as more of the same.

[Since90+2]

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The difference is that these clubs aren’t looking to leave their domestic leagues. They’re going to get super rich (more super rich) and so will completely dominate their domestic leagues.

If Rangers and Celtic left Scottish football, the rest of us are on a pretty even playing field where the gap between the richest and poorest top Flight teams is big but not overwhelming.

Yip. Cake and eat it springs to mind.