Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[weecounty hibby]

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Johnson was quite right not to sack Patel, because if he had it might have undermined public confidence in the office of Home Secretary. He did it for us, see?

He is a great leader!

[JimBHibees]

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Furore akin to tumbleweed from the BBC and tabloids on this one.

Government don't accept liability but end up paying up a six figure sum, good one. Absolutely laughable. Corrupt off the scale. As you say the press and particularly BBC will be all over this for sure. Maybe get Sarah Smith or Laura K on the case.

[ballengeich]

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Government don't accept liability but end up paying up a six figure sum, good one. Absolutely laughable. Corrupt off the scale. As you say the press and particularly BBC will be all over this for sure. Maybe get Sarah Smith or Laura K on the case.

This might be a bit left-field, but could an opposition MP in Westminster raise the matter?

[Ozyhibby]

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This might be a bit left-field, but could an opposition MP in Westminster raise the matter?

You mean a Labour MP?


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[Ozyhibby]

A wee reminder that people in England are very happy with the way things are going. If we want something different then we have to vote for independence.


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[The Harp Awakes]

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A wee reminder that people in England are very happy with the way things are going. If we want something different then we have to vote for independence.


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Absolutely incredible stats, when you think about Boris' very low satisfaction ratings over his handling of the pandemic.

Difficult to see how the gap between the Tories and Labour is going to narrow. The Starmer bounce just ain't happening and the UK Labour party looks like following the demise of Scottish Labour. Although not a Labour voter, I find this quite sad, as the UK needs a strong opposition to hold the nasty party to account.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Absolutely incredible stats, when you think about Boris' very low satisfaction ratings over his handling of the pandemic.

Difficult to see how the gap between the Tories and Labour is going to narrow. The Starmer bounce just ain't happening and the UK Labour party looks like following the demise of Scottish Labour. Although not a Labour voter, I find this quite sad, as the UK needs a strong opposition to hold the nasty party to account.

It's more Zeitgeist than politics at play. UK politics has taken a massive lurch to the right in the last decade, it's almost as if being right wing has become some kind of fashion statement and academia together with humanitarian values have been replaced with greed, ignorance and hate as virtuosities.

[weecounty hibby]

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A wee reminder that people in England are very happy with the way things are going. If we want something different then we have to vote for independence.


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I look at polls like that and really have to question why anyone living in Scotland and Wales wouldn't want independence, at the very least just so we aren't governed by a right wing and going further right party for the foreseeable future.

[JimBHibees]

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This might be a bit left-field, but could an opposition MP in Westminster raise the matter?

Is that not the reason they are there?

[The Harp Awakes]

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I look at polls like that and really have to question why anyone living in Scotland and Wales wouldn't want independence, at the very least just so we aren't governed by a right wing and going further right party for the foreseeable future.

I agree with you. Looking at Scotland specifically, if your politics are liberal/left of centre (probably ~80% of the electorate) then you'd have thought independence must be an attractive option.

There are 2 main obstacles though (1) There is a significant number of that 80% who are working class/have left of centre views, but who are still wedded to royalty/the union - the Rangers minded element if you like. They will never vote for independence even if politically it would benefit them, and (2) Some people are naturally scared of change.

The good news for the independence movement is that there has been a steady increase in the Yes support from ~29% in early 2014 to 50%+ today. I think with the positivity of an indyref2 campaign the Yes lead will increase further.

As has been well recognised, Boris being in power in Westminster has had a galvanising effect on support for independence. The further ahead he gets in the polls the more Scots will turn to independence.

As we head into the May Scottish elections though, the SNP are going to face an onslaught from the unionist parties and right wing media. To obtain a majority at Holyrood they will need to re-group, be united and stay strong throughout the campaign.

[Jack]

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Absolutely incredible stats, when you think about Boris' very low satisfaction ratings over his handling of the pandemic.

Difficult to see how the gap between the Tories and Labour is going to narrow. The Starmer bounce just ain't happening and the UK Labour party looks like following the demise of Scottish Labour. Although not a Labour voter, I find this quite sad, as the UK needs a strong opposition to hold the nasty party to account.

I'm pretty sure if Boris Johnson, Prince of Thieves and the torys more generally were properly exposed by the media for what they've done and continue to do then their ratings wouldn't be so high.

[Bostonhibby]

Bozo is completely out his depth when more than a 3 word slogan is required.

Lie or mistake? Both worrying but doubt he or his supporters will bother unless they are directly affected.

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[Bostonhibby]

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I don't understand why "not true" is in quotation marks there. I get that it's because the Good Law Project actually used those words, but wouldn't it be more normal just to say that the Good Law Project said that Johnson's statement was not true? It's as if the BBC have been told to be very, very, very careful about ever reporting that the govt misspoke without making it clear that it's someone else, not them, making the allegation.

I tend to agree with this but the GLP may have deliberately chosen to word that way, they have been pretty smart at outmanouvering the snakes so far but the BBC is not shy about calling a lie a lie elsewhere when it is consistent with government policy.

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[Bangkok Hibby]

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A wee reminder that people in England are very happy with the way things are going. If we want something different then we have to vote for independence.


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Wake the **** up Scotland. Grow some bollocks and get the **** out of the ****ed up mess that is Britain

[Ryan91]

So Boris misled Parliament on the whole COVID contracts being on record for the public to see.

I expect we'll have Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson along any moment now demanding Boris resigns.

[hibsbollah]

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So Boris misled Parliament on the whole COVID contracts being on record for the public to see.

I expect we'll have Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson along any moment now demanding Boris resigns.

There is nothing on the Guardian or the BBC front pages about the exclusive. Don’t know about The Mirror. Starmer and Rayner are now getting fired in about the Tories on nurses pay to be fair to them, but evident deviousness of this sort about alleged corruption on the part of the PM is a massive prize for an opposition 13 points behind in the polls. What did he say about Hancock resigning? ‘The public don’t want to see that kind of thing’. I don’t know what the **** they’re playing at.

It is literally impossible for people not interested in politics to find out about this stuff. Truth is becoming marginalised.

[Kato]

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There is nothing on the Guardian or the BBC front pages about the exclusive. Don’t know about The Mirror. Starmer and Rayner are now getting fired in about the Tories on nurses pay to be fair to them, but evident deviousness of this sort about alleged corruption on the part of the PM is a massive prize for an opposition 13 points behind in the polls. What did he say about Hancock resigning? ‘The public don’t want to see that kind of thing’. I don’t know what the **** they’re playing at.

It is literally impossible for people not interested in politics to find out about this stuff. Truth is becoming marginalised.

Tory voters have zero skin in game regarding any lies or financial corruption from their chosen party. They literally do not care one jot about it. Some cheer from the sidelines when the stories do get some oxygen.

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[hibsbollah]

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Tory voters have zero skin in game regarding any lies or financial corruption from their chosen party. They literally do not care one jot about it. Some cheer from the sidelines when the stories do get some oxygen.

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I have distant relatives in England who are posting on social media about the nhs underfunding being the fault of too much immigration, and money being spent on foreign aid instead of on pensioners and nurses

Try calling them out for their evident racism though, they run away crying in a big explosion of snowflakery.

[Stick]

Nothing on the BBC evening news tonight about Boris lying to parliament as per the high court judgement. It can’t be true then, can it?

[cabbageandribs1875]

get this corrupt mop-headed adulterer tory tramp away tae......


Petition · UK Parliament: Public vote of no confidence in this government and Boris Johnson. · Change.org

[The Harp Awakes]

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Nothing on the BBC evening news tonight about Boris lying to parliament as per the high court judgement. It can’t be true then, can it?

It's like we're living in Belarus or North Korea. The press and media rule the roost so nothing to see here.

[Skol]

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I agree with you. Looking at Scotland specifically, if your politics are liberal/left of centre (probably ~80% of the electorate) then you'd have thought independence must be an attractive option.

There are 2 main obstacles though (1) There is a significant number of that 80% who are working class/have left of centre views, but who are still wedded to royalty/the union - the Rangers minded element if you like. They will never vote for independence even if politically it would benefit them, and (2) Some people are naturally scared of change.

The good news for the independence movement is that there has been a steady increase in the Yes support from ~29% in early 2014 to 50%+ today. I think with the positivity of an indyref2 campaign the Yes lead will increase further.

As has been well recognised, Boris being in power in Westminster has had a galvanising effect on support for independence. The further ahead he gets in the polls the more Scots will turn to independence.

As we head into the May Scottish elections though, the SNP are going to face an onslaught from the unionist parties and right wing media. To obtain a majority at Holyrood they will need to re-group, be united and stay strong throughout the campaign.

Your two categories of people who don’t support independence make sone sweeping assumptions.

I don’t fall into the rangers minded category and I also have no issue with change.

I don’t support independence for two main reasons

1) financially as a country we would be worse off with an impact on almost everyone.

2) I don’t believe the current government have done a good job and don’t relish the day they have full control. The alternatives also don’t give me any faith either.

None of the above means I support a try U.K. government though.

[Future17]

With so many things to legitimately criticise the Tories for, I wonder if there's a need to bring the appearance of individuals into it (unless it's actually relevant to how they do their job).

[lapsedhibee]

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Notoriety. Write it out 100 times.

Nowadays no one seems in the slightest bit care for spelling.

[Smartie]

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With so many things to legitimately criticise the Tories for, I wonder if there's a need to bring the appearance of individuals into it (unless it's actually relevant to how they do their job).

Exactly.

It’s lowest common denominator rubbish that we should be better than (I know, I know, “Jimmy Krankie” etc).

The Tories are a corrupt, incompetent open goal right now.

Maybe this is because I don’t mind Ruth Davidson that much? There are things I disagree with her on but there’s a lot I agree with her on.

Post-independence Scotland would be richer for someone eloquently carrying forward a centre right message against the grain of the public, even if only to make a fully informed choice to not vote for them. Davidson is capable of doing this, even if she’s been swallowed up by having to use little more than British nationalism in recent years.

[degenerated]

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Exactly.

It’s lowest common denominator rubbish that we should be better than (I know, I know, “Jimmy Krankie” etc).

The Tories are a corrupt, incompetent own goal right now.

Maybe this is because I don’t mind Ruth Davidson that much? There are things I disagree with her on but there’s a lot I agree with her on.

Post-independence Scotland would be richer for someone eloquently carrying forward a centre right message against the grain of the public, even if only to make a fully informed choice to not vote for them. Davidson is capable of doing this, even if she’s been swallowed up by having to use little more than British nationalism in recent years.

There's a lot of things where everyone, everywhere has agreed with Ruth Davidson at some point, it's actually impossible for that not to be the case given the way she changes her views and standpoints.

Ruth Davidson is, for me, what is wrong with politics in that the only thing she is interested in in is Ruth Davidson. Principles, beliefs and policies are completely fluid as long as it gets her where she wants to be.

[StevieC]

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Your two categories of people who don’t support independence make sone sweeping assumptions.

I don’t fall into the rangers minded category and I also have no issue with change.

I don’t support independence for two main reasons

Agreed, it was a sweeping assumption. There are many reasons that people may be against Independence. Work, personal circumstances, financial investements, fear of one of many potential issues. Also just as many reasons that a lot of people are genuinely for Independence, not just flag waving “freedom” fighters.

It is the job of either side to convince the other that their point of view is more valid and Scotland, and life, would be better in their scenario.

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1) financially as a country we would be worse off with an impact on almost everyone.

Firstly, I think you need to replace “would” with “could”.
Scotland is a resource rich country, and whilst there “could” be short term financial losses, I personally have no doubt that we would be no worse off financially in the long term.
My main worry with staying is that the sort of government that runs us from London would have no qualms about running us dry and then ditching us when we became a burden. Look at the way they treat the northern areas of England, do you think Scotland would fair any better if there was no longer any oil? Currently they have created a “levelling up” fund to combat poverty, but instead of the funding going to Glasgow, where it’s most needed, it’s going to Tory held border areas. It’s exactly the same in England.
The “too small, too poor” train of thought doesn’t resonate with me, I genuinely believe we are big enough and rich enough to thrive.

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2) I don’t believe the current government have done a good job and don’t relish the day they have full control. The alternatives also don’t give me any faith either.

Personally, when it comes to Independence, I compare how the two governments have performed in comparison to each other, rather than pick fault with either. Regardless of what policies you agree or disagree with, Independence is a straight choice between one or the other. Whilst there may be failings in some areas, I think it’s important to compare to decide whether one route or the other would provide a better outcome. It’s all well and good to say that the government has failed on this thing or that thing, but has the alternative faired any better under similar circumstances?
If you say the Scottish Government has failed in the SNHS, has the UK government done any better? (And that’s putting aside the stealth privatisation of the NHS). Has it faired any worse in education? Has it faired any worse when dealing with this pandemic?
Yes governments make mistakes, they always have and they always will, but for me the Independence argument is not about how well a government is performing in its own right, it’s about how well it’s performing against the alternative.
I see people down south envious of things like free prescriptions, free education, no bedroom tax, and even the cost of water! Some of them even think that they are paying for these benefits!!

It’s possible that in the short term there could be financial restraints, and I may not get to see any benefits in my lifetime, but I’d like to see a progressive forward thinking Scotland being forged for/by my children and their children.

[Bostonhibby]

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There's a lot of things where everyone, everywhere has agreed with Ruth Davidson at some point, it's actually impossible for that not to be the case given the way she changes her views and standpoints.

Ruth Davidson is, for me, what is wrong with politics in that the only thing she is interested in in is Ruth Davidson. Principles, beliefs and policies are completely fluid as long as it gets her where she wants to be.

This sums up Davidson for me, her being that type of character and carrying that reputation around would normally be a big enough cross to bear. The sort of abuse we're seeing here isn't needed.

Seems to be a Farage type political figure needing the attention and trying to be relevant.



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[Ozyhibby]

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Agreed, it was a sweeping assumption. There are many reasons that people may be against Independence. Work, personal circumstances, financial investements, fear of one of many potential issues. Also just as many reasons that a lot of people are genuinely for Independence, not just flag waving “freedom” fighters.

It is the job of either side to convince the other that their point of view is more valid and Scotland, and life, would be better in their scenario.



Firstly, I think you need to replace “would” with “could”.
Scotland is a resource rich country, and whilst there “could” be short term financial losses, I personally have no doubt that we would be no worse off financially in the long term.
My main worry with staying is that the sort of government that runs us from London would have no qualms about running us dry and then ditching us when we became a burden. Look at the way they treat the northern areas of England, do you think Scotland would fair any better if there was no longer any oil? Currently they have created a “levelling up” fund to combat poverty, but instead of the funding going to Glasgow, where it’s most needed, it’s going to Tory held border areas. It’s exactly the same in England.
The “too small, too poor” train of thought doesn’t resonate with me, I genuinely believe we are big enough and rich enough to thrive.



Personally, when it comes to Independence, I compare how the two governments have performed in comparison to each other, rather than pick fault with either. Regardless of what policies you agree or disagree with, Independence is a straight choice between one or the other. Whilst there may be failings in some areas, I think it’s important to compare to decide whether one route or the other would provide a better outcome. It’s all well and good to say that the government has failed on this thing or that thing, but has the alternative faired any better under similar circumstances?
If you say the Scottish Government has failed in the SNHS, has the UK government done any better? (And that’s putting aside the stealth privatisation of the NHS). Has it faired any worse in education? Has it faired any worse when dealing with this pandemic?
Yes governments make mistakes, they always have and they always will, but for me the Independence argument is not about how well a government is performing in its own right, it’s about how well it’s performing against the alternative.
I see people down south envious of things like free prescriptions, free education, no bedroom tax, and even the cost of water! Some of them even think that they are paying for these benefits!!

It’s possible that in the short term there could be financial restraints, and I may not get to see any benefits in my lifetime, but I’d like to see a progressive forward thinking Scotland being forged for/by my children and their children.

You only have to look around us. The only two small European countries near us which are poorer are Wales and Northern Ireland. All the independent ones are richer and enjoy a higher standard of living. That surely can’t be a coincidence. And there is no plan from Westminster to change that. They really don’t care about it.


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[Ozyhibby]

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There's a lot of things where everyone, everywhere has agreed with Ruth Davidson at some point, it's actually impossible for that not to be the case given the way she changes her views and standpoints.

Ruth Davidson is, for me, what is wrong with politics in that the only thing she is interested in in is Ruth Davidson. Principles, beliefs and policies are completely fluid as long as it gets her where she wants to be.

Has Ruth davidson ever had a policy other that wrapping herself in a union flag for a photo shoot and angrily shouting at fmq’s?


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