Jack Ross

[calumhibee1]

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Can you let me see a list of big games please?

If you’re unsure of what constitutes a big game for Hibs then you can ask the club themselves. They categorise the games - Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and i think Aberdeen (although I’m not sure on that one as I don’t pay at the gate) all being big games by the clubs logic as they have them down as Category A, the highest category.

I’m not quite sure why you think the concept of big games is recently made up arbitrary nonsense tbh. There’s always been big games. It’s not a new phenomenon. Trying to get someone to ‘list’ the games just smacks of trying to bore someone into submission so you can claim some sort of victory.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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If you’re unsure of what constitutes a big game for Hibs then you can ask the club themselves. They categorise the games - Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and i think Aberdeen (although I’m not sure on that one as I don’t pay at the gate) all being big games by the clubs logic as they have them down as Category A, the highest category.

I’m not quite sure why you think the concept of big games is recently made up arbitrary nonsense tbh. There’s always been big games. It’s not a new phenomenon.

Semi finals and finals are taken as given for being big games right? Like make no mistake about it St Johnstone this month is a big game.

[GreenCastle]

Prefer the term important games.

Think it’s a better description than big.

[calumhibee1]

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Semi finals and finals are taken as given for being big games right? Like make no mistake about it St Johnstone this month is a big game.

Of course. Category A games and latter stages of cups are always big games (or important games if that’s the term folk would prefer!).

Pretending there’s no such thing as games that are bigger than others is quite simply laughable.

[h1bs4life]

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Agree, that is football.

Reading the ON this Day thread and seeing how Turnbull's team who finished second two years in a row managed to lose or draw regularly with bloody East Fife or get defeated in cup competitions, by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose, when they were amongst the favourites to win the competition.

The table doesn't lie, neither do results. We are comfortably fourth. We're clearly having a bad run. Every other team in our league , outside the top three are pretty inconsistent. I fully expect Livi to imminently resort back to winless runs and the like. Currently Hibs are struggling, but the stats from the 20 odd games or so played in the league tell me that Ross will get Hibs back on track.

When Turnbull's team got beat by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose that was big big news at the time. Nowadays that would hardly get a mention.
The 1st big game I seen at Hampden was probably one of the Turnbull's 1st big games as Hibs manager when we got beat 6-1.
After the game Turnbull vowed we would beat Celtic next time at Hampden and we did Dryborough Cup , League Cup , Dryborough Cup again.

The same happened with Alex Millar and his team , despite all the crap football we had to endure when Murdo Mcleod lifted the League Cup then all ( maybe most )
was forgiven, the fact we almost lost the club the year before made it even more special.

There were a few including myself who were annoyed that we lost the Semi Final but if Jack Ross goes on and wins the League Cup then the Semi Final loss will be a distant memory and him and his team will be regarded as legends.

Football fans of all teams not just Hibs are fickle.

[Since452]

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When Turnbull's team got beat by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose that was big big news at the time. Nowadays that would hardly get a mention.
The 1st big game I seen at Hampden was probably one of the Turnbull's 1st big games as Hibs manager when we got beat 6-1.
After the game Turnbull vowed we would beat Celtic next time at Hampden and we did Dryborough Cup , League Cup , Dryborough Cup again.

The same happened with Alex Millar and his team , despite all the crap football we had to endure when Murdo Mcleod lifted the League Cup then all ( maybe most )
was forgiven, the fact we almost lost the club the year before made it even more special.

There were a few including myself who were annoyed that we lost the Semi Final but if Jack Ross goes on and wins the League Cup then the Semi Final loss will be a distant memory and him and his team will be regarded as legends.

Football fans of all teams not just Hibs are fickle.

Same with John Collins. People see him through rose tinted glasses because he won the cup. Jack Ross is an infinitely better manager than Collins.

[James Stephen]

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Looks like some of Trump's lot might have read your post and got some ideas.

Make Hibernian Great Again!!!!

😁

[Fergus52]

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Absolutely not.

Don’t care anywhere near enough to go through all his games as manager. I think someone said it was 2 wins in 14 though.

The big fixtures, if that’s what you mean though are the games against Rangers, Celtic, hearts, Aberdeen plus semi finals and finals of cup competitions.

That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

[Allez Hibs]

Jack Ross Category A games:

P 14 W 2 D 2 L 10

19/20
Aberdeen Home W 3-0
Celtic Away L 2-0
Rangers Home L 3-0
Hearts Away W 2-0
Rangers Away L 2-1
Hearts Home L 3-1
Aberdeen Away L 3-1
20/21
Aberdeen Home L 1-0
Rangers Home D 2-2
Celtic Away L 3-0
HEARTS SF L 2-1
Aberdeen Away L 2-0
Celtic Home D 2-2
Rangers Away L 1-0

[Fergus52]

I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.

[Allez Hibs]

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I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.

I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

[Fergus52]

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Jack Ross Category A games:

P 14 W 2 D 2 L 10

19/20
Aberdeen Home W 3-0
Celtic Away L 2-0
Rangers Home L 3-0
Hearts Away W 2-0
Rangers Away L 2-1
Hearts Home L 3-1
Aberdeen Away L 3-1
20/21
Aberdeen Home L 1-0
Rangers Home D 2-2
Celtic Away L 3-0
HEARTS SF L 2-1
Aberdeen Away L 2-0
Celtic Home D 2-2
Rangers Away L 1-0

If you discount the first 3 (think that's fair as Ross had just came in and not really put his mark down on the team yet) then I'd argue only 2 of those games were terrible performances: 3-1 hearts and Aberdeen away this season were both dreadful.

Aberdeen away last season we were controlling the match and looked comfortable until Whittaker's dodgy red card.

Home to Aberdeen this season was a pretty poor boring performance but 0-0 would have been fair, freak penalty conceded by Boyle was the difference.

Both the defeats away to rangers were tight games that could have swung either way, as much as we can really hope for with how good Gerrard has them just now.

3-0 to Celtic flattered them imo, we had a few decent chances we didn't take and they were more clinical on the day.

Semi final was obviously a sore one but on another day nisbets penalty goes in and we go through 2-1, fine margins.

[Fergus52]

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I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

Would absolutely love to see hibs challenging for the title but don't think it's realistic.

Perfectly happy to be competing in the latter stages of the cups and on course to qualify for Europe.

If you want more than that then fair play but I'd imagine you'll be waiting a long time

[HibeeHibernian4]

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I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

"Ambition" doesn't actually mean anything though does it? In terms of supporters. I want Hibs to win every game but also know that isn't realistic. Therefore when we lose to the Old Firm as long as it's respectable as a performance I don't hold that against the manager (given the massive gap in wages).

[calumhibee1]

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That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

It’s not misleading at all. They 14 games are the games the fans revel in winning. They’re the games we pick out on the fixture list when it comes out. They’re the games where the high of winning is much higher than the others and the lows are much lower. Quite simply they’re the games the fans care about the most.

[Allez Hibs]

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That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

Misleading? One of the biggest clubs in Scotland!

[Hermit Crab]

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I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.

I don't think its unreasonable for a club of our size to go through the season losing only a small number of games at home. I fully expect us not to lose any home game bar matches v the OF. We are always getting told by the players and manager we are good enough to complete but rarely do at home. Our record speaks for itself, not won back to back home league games in over 2 years. Shocking.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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I don't think its unreasonable for a club of our size to go through the season losing only a small number of games at home. I fully expect us not to lose any home game bar matches v the OF. We are always getting told by the players and manager we are good enough to complete but rarely do at home. Our record speaks for itself, not won back to back home league games in over 2 years. Shocking.

That's a ridiculous expectation that isn't grounded in any sort of reality. I would go as far as to suggest that no non OF club in this century has gone a whole season at home without losing once to a non OF side.

[bingo70]

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If you discount the first 3 (think that's fair as Ross had just came in and not really put his mark down on the team yet) then I'd argue only 2 of those games were terrible performances: 3-1 hearts and Aberdeen away this season were both dreadful.

Aberdeen away last season we were controlling the match and looked comfortable until Whittaker's dodgy red card.

Home to Aberdeen this season was a pretty poor boring performance but 0-0 would have been fair, freak penalty conceded by Boyle was the difference.

Both the defeats away to rangers were tight games that could have swung either way, as much as we can really hope for with how good Gerrard has them just now.

3-0 to Celtic flattered them imo, we had a few decent chances we didn't take and they were more clinical on the day.

Semi final was obviously a sore one but on another day nisbets penalty goes in and we go through 2-1, fine margins.

Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

[calumhibee1]

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Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

[Eyrie]

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I’m presuming that the fact you said they got to the play off final means they lost it? I genuinely dont know if they did or not but on the presumption they did, does that not prove the point even more?

Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

[B.H.F.C]

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Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

Getting Sunderland to the playoff final wasn’t success.

[Allez Hibs]

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Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

Yes, he came with that reputation. It was an underwhelming appointment at the time.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

Thanks. That's what I was getting at. Two legs in the semi final so two big games.

Again we're back to fine margins in terms of the final. Charlton won it in the last minute of injury time. Is that bottling or is it bad luck? Maybe both? Maybe football is too nuanced as a sport for people to look at a defeat of a game they quite probably didn't even watch and declare "this builds to Jack Ross and his reputation as a big game bottler".

[James Stephen]

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They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

Eddie Turnbull's side lost a few finals (badly).

[calumhibee1]

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Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

Apologies, I’ve just edited my post because I realised he obviously lost it because they’re still in League One - brains not working at night

Yup, he did. But when it came to an even bigger game, he lost. It’s pretty much undeniable that his record at us in big games is really poor. I’m not sure how that’s even debatable. Even if people want to remove the Rangers and Celtic games, he’s still played 7 won 2 lost 5.

Considering one of them was also a cup semi final against our biggest rivals who are lower league and one was also a trouncing by our biggest rivals who were bottom of the league and ended up relegated its an appalling record in itself even without the OF games.

[bingo70]

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They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

Johnson’s paint trophy as well I think?

Not a big trophy for neutrals to get excited about but think Sunderland took a good number of fans to Wembley for it.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Getting Sunderland to the playoff final wasn’t success.

They've missed out on the play-offs once already since he left and they're on course to do it again as they're down in 11th right now. He left them in 5th. Maybe relatively that is a success?

[calumhibee1]

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Thanks. That's what I was getting at. Two legs in the semi final so two big games.

Again we're back to fine margins in terms of the final. Charlton won it in the last minute of injury time. Is that bottling or is it bad luck? Maybe both? Maybe football is too nuanced as a sport for people to look at a defeat of a game they quite probably didn't even watch and declare "this builds to Jack Ross and his reputation as a big game bottler".

You could maybe put it down to bad luck if it didn’t keep happening in big games - if we managed to win more than 2 in 14 then you could have said the Celtic game was bad luck, or the semi final even. Unfortunately it happens with alarming frequency that we don’t manage to win big games. That would suggest it’s not just bad luck.