Coronavirus

[Sir David Gray]

UK approaching 80,000 excess deaths since March.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

[Sir David Gray]

Netherlands goes into a full lockdown lasting at least five weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sk...hools-12161642

[jonty]

Possible level 4 for Fife ? I knew the numbers weren't looking good
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-55318215

[SteveHFC]

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Netherlands goes into a full lockdown lasting at least five weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sk...hools-12161642

UK will be following them in a few weeks time.

[Sir David Gray]

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Possible level 4 for Fife ? I knew the numbers weren't looking good
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-55318215

Yes, North and East Ayrshire as well as Fife were all specifically mentioned today as causing concern.

[Sir David Gray]

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UK will be following them in a few weeks time.

Early in January would be my bet.

[Pretty Boy]

Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

[Mon Dieu4]

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Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

Sounds sensible to me but agree that it might be a tricky one to try and bring up, can you drop a few hints that maybe everyone involved should be taking extra care for next week before they are due to travel?

[Jones28]

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Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

I don’t see any issues with anything you’re doing. Not seen each other in over a year; being sensible by booking test; her parents I would have imagined would say they’d do anything to see the wee one.

[Pretty Boy]

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I don’t see any issues with anything you’re doing. Not seen each other in over a year; being sensible by booking test; her parents I would have imagined would say they’d do anything to see the wee one.

I'm just wary that it's potentially taking a test away from someone who really needs it.

The availability for Edinburgh looks good for the next few days and it seems a similar situation where they are but all the same....

[jonty]

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Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

I think there will be a lot of families in a similar position.
A lot of people will be holding onto the hope they can see loved ones for the first time in almost a year. A lot of people go on about the youth and "the lost years". They have their whole lives ahead of them. Nothing compared to the older generation who might not see another Christmas.

[Sir David Gray]

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Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

Personally I wouldn't take a test unless I had symptoms, I'd be very keen to meet with family I hadn't seen all year and therefore I'd probably go into a semi full lockdown for a couple of weeks beforehand.

[Sir David Gray]

Ambulances queuing at all A&E departments in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55316063

[Skol]

I am not clear why you need the tests. The rules as they are at present mean the visit is allowed. I understand why you may want them though

[hibee]

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Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

I think you’d have to book private tests, surely NHS is only if you have symptoms.

You would probably be better all isolating for a week before the visit rather than having tests with no symptoms.

[hibee]

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Ambulances queuing at all A&E departments in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55316063

Surely they can’t go ahead with the relaxation of rules if they are in that position now, that could be all of us in January.

[The_Exile]

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Ambulances queuing at all A&E departments in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55316063

They are on their knees over there at the moment, it seems it's heading that way in Wales too and this will be us in a few weeks, amplified by binning the restrictions over Xmas. Hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see our NHS coping with this. For every family taking maximum precautions and being sensible, there will be many who won't be and simply do not care about the consequences of their actions over the next couple of weeks. January and February will be properly grim.

[ballengeich]

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Netherlands goes into a full lockdown lasting at least five weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sk...hools-12161642

From the article it's because their 7 day rate has risen to 47.47 per 100,000. They're going into a level 4 for what would be level 2 here,

[Sir David Gray]

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From the article it's because their 7 day rate has risen to 47.47 per 100,000. They're going into a level 4 for what would be level 2 here,

By comparison Scotland's currently at 110.5 cases per 100,000 people as of 12th December.

[Sir David Gray]

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I think you’d have to book private tests, surely NHS is only if you have symptoms.

You would probably be better all isolating for a week before the visit rather than having tests with no symptoms.

I think the moral dilemma referred to is that Pretty Boy and family would be booking NHS tests by claiming they had symptoms.

[Sir David Gray]

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Surely they can’t go ahead with the relaxation of rules if they are in that position now, that could be all of us in January.

They surely cannot contemplate relaxing anything over Christmas when they're in that situation.

We've spent the last 9 months living with restrictions precisely to protect the NHS from this sort of pressure.

What's being proposed next week is bordering on criminal negligence.

[The_Exile]

Agreed, it's an utter disgrace, we should be getting told it's not happening, commit to vaccinating the country by June/July and give us a week off to celebrate. This is going to be a complete disaster IF they go ahead and toe the "we trust the people to be sensible" line.

[Pretty Boy]

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I think you’d have to book private tests, surely NHS is only if you have symptoms.

You would probably be better all isolating for a week before the visit rather than having tests with no symptoms.

Unfortunately with the jobs we do isolating isn't an option.

That was why my argument was that getting tests seems immoral. They are for people who have symptoms but it's a tick box exercise and easily circumvented.

I wish there was just a ban on visits and it would be problem solved tbh.

[DaveF]

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Unfortunately with the jobs we do isolating isn't an option.

That was why my argument was that getting tests seems immoral. They are for people who have symptoms but it's a tick box exercise and easily circumvented.

I wish there was just a ban on visits and it would be problem solved tbh.

Get a test and put aside your guilt. Plenty others will have abused it (perhaps not the right word) while those in charge have spurned billions and still made an arse of how it's all being handled.

You taking a couple of tests for some family time is nothing by comparison.

[hibee]

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Unfortunately with the jobs we do isolating isn't an option.

That was why my argument was that getting tests seems immoral. They are for people who have symptoms but it's a tick box exercise and easily circumvented.

I wish there was just a ban on visits and it would be problem solved tbh.

If they can manage to test every student that wants a test I don’t see why everyone else planning to visit older relatives can’t get the same treatment, why are students getting to party throughout lockdown then get tested before going home?

[marinello59]

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If they can manage to test every student that wants a test I don’t see why everyone else planning to visit older relatives can’t get the same treatment, why are students getting to party throughout lockdown then get tested before going home?

Are students partying through lockdown? Some may be but most aren’t.

[Jamesie]

“Too late to cancel Christmas” is on the front page of tomorrow’s Telegraph...

[stu in nottingham]

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Get a test and put aside your guilt. Plenty others will have abused it (perhaps not the right word) while those in charge have spurned billions and still made an arse of how it's all being handled.

You taking a couple of tests for some family time is nothing by comparison.

i agree with Dave.

We are told to 'use common sense'. I think in this case you are protecting the well-being and mental health of yours and your extended family. In addition, how many people needing testing are not able to do so at this time? Very few I'd suggest, It feels like a humane act to me and i certainly wouldn't criticise you for it, I'd probably do the same.

You've contributed constructively here and no doubt elsewhere throughout the pandemic. It's not been a walk in the park for you either consdering employment issues etc. Go get your tests mate, just do it and be with the family.

[Radium]

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Ambulances queuing at all A&E departments in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55316063

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/d...-db-151220.pdf

175 cases per 100k atm


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[stu in nottingham]

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Are students partying through lockdown? Some may be but most aren’t.

Some are and many aren't and that's a fact. However, there aren't any figures to evidence anything in that regard. What cities like the one I live in will point to is the amount of students who haven't played by the rules. One party of 100-200 people after another being broken up almost nightly and it's invariably students (not always) - certainly in this city,

University of Nottingham declared over 1,500 students with infections almost immediately after their return. Nottingham Trent University (similar size) refused to publish any figures so we can easily assume similar.

People in Nottingham would certainly agree that it's not 'all' students who are partying, however significant amounts of them are and the right to be able to state that which we see with our own eyes is reserved. Just to say I am not anti-student, quite the opposite, having worked in two universities for a number of year, one of them in a role directly supporting students.