Steve Clarke

[PatHead]

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Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

Not sure about that Scotty. We didn't exactly go for the cheap option in Lennon. More likely after another of the failures.

Back on topic, great job Steve Clarke has done. You can see his mindset in having 2 of the back 3 capable of passing it from the back and comfortable on the ball. The other doing the physical side.

[hibsbollah]

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Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

I’ve just listened to Pat say that on the Totally Scottish Football Show. ‘I was very very close to getting him into Hibs’ before he signed for Kilmarnock’.

[matty_f]

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Info I got at the time was that we had him lined up and then Petrie quibbled about the financial package and the deal was off.

I am amazed to read this.

[The 90+2]

I thought Clarke was approached about five years before Stubbs?

[matty_f]

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I thought Clarke was approached about five years before Stubbs?

The rumours on that one definitely were around Hibs baulking at the financial package.

Not sure how true that was then, either, although it was definitely at a time where we were more fiscally prudent.

[The 90+2]

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The rumours on that one definitely were around Hibs baulking at the financial package.

Not sure how true that was then, either, although it was definitely at a time where we were more fiscally prudent.

Yeah, for what I remember mate is the financial package we offered Clarke was what he thought was for himself when was in fact for his whole management team 😁. We went for Calderwood instead. Genius.

[matty_f]

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Yeah, for what I remember mate is the financial package we offered Clarke was what he thought was for himself when was in fact for his whole management team 😁. We went for Calderwood instead. Genius.

Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

[The 90+2]

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Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥

[matty_f]

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Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥

What a prick he was, eh?

[The 90+2]

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What a prick he was, eh?

I always thought based on very little he thought he was too good for us. In contrast Pat Fenlon who I thought it was like Christmas Day every day managing us.

[matty_f]

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I always thought based on very little he thought he was too good for us. In contrast Pat Fenlon who I thought it was like Christmas Day every day managing us.

I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

[The 90+2]

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I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

Totally agree.

[hibsbollah]

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I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

By the same token I think Appleton would have been a success for us too. Not taking anything away from JR. Currently doing really well at Lincoln. It’s all about the culture and structure that the club has put in place at Hibs.

[The Modfather]

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I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

I’ve always thought Collins was the right man at the wrong time. I can but wonder how he would have got on under Dempsters’ version of Hibs than Petrie’s. That and a better number 2 would have helped with the mistakes Collins did make IMO.

[Andy74]

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I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

Too big compared to what though?

That would suggest managers usually do much better here.

You’d have to give him some credit that he took a team that could have gone down and we ended up reasonably comfortable in the end.

After that I think his time is quite misunderstood.

From the next season onwards we spent significant time in the upper positions in the league. Some years ago when bored I looked at our league position after each game to see where we usually spent our time under Fenlon. From that season on we averaged 4th position.

We spent virtually no time in the bottom 6. A few weeks, but badly timed of course that season because we slipped into bottom 6. Two shocking refereeing decisions in the games before the split didn’t help. We did end up winning 4 of the 6 games, beat Hearts and got to another Scottish Cup final.

The start of the next season we had the bad European result - in a game where we ended up with a number of teenagers on the pitch who weren’t good enough or ready enough but obviously a bad result.

League wise we could have been doing much better of course but for a club who had not been doing it for some years we were looking on course enough to be top half when we started to agitate for him to resign.

You also can’t discount two Scottish Cup finals in both his seasons, regardless of the results.

He was an average to good Hibs manager. I don’t think the job was too big for him chat stands up and us largely based on views of the standard of football he’d managed at before rather than what he did here.

[Keith_M]

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Of course!

No need to rub it in!

[The Modfather]

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Too big compared to what though?

That would suggest managers usually do much better here.

You’d have to give him some credit that he took a team that could have gone down and we ended up reasonably comfortable in the end.

After that I think his time is quite misunderstood.

From the next season onwards we spent significant time in the upper positions in the league. Some years ago when bored I looked at our league position after each game to see where we usually spent our time under Fenlon. From that season on we averaged 4th position.

We spent virtually no time in the bottom 6. A few weeks, but badly timed of course that season because we slipped into bottom 6. Two shocking refereeing decisions in the games before the split didn’t help. We did end up winning 4 of the 6 games, beat Hearts and got to another Scottish Cup final.

The start of the next season we had the bad European result - in a game where we ended up with a number of teenagers on the pitch who weren’t good enough or ready enough but obviously a bad result.

League wise we could have been doing much better of course but for a club who had not been doing it for some years we were looking on course enough to be top half when we started to agitate for him to resign.

You also can’t discount two Scottish Cup finals in both his seasons, regardless of the results.

He was an average to good Hibs manager. I don’t think the job was too big for him chat stands up and us largely based on views of the standard of football he’d managed at before rather than what he did here.

I don’t think we improved any in Fenlon’s first season. He arrived in November when we were 10th. We finished 11th, securing our survival in the second last game of the season against Dunfermline. Of course the position we were in was little to do with him, but similarly I don’t think much of an argument can be made that he improved us that season.

As for average position, I wonder what Butchers average position would be. I think we only spent a couple of weeks in 11th. An average position doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

As for Fenlon. Nice guy but a poor manager for us IMO. Although I do have a lot of sympathy for him as we were run appallingly (Butcher saying we used Wikipedia as a big part of our scouting when he arrived always stuck with me and sums up how amateur we were run in that period).

[Scotty Leither]

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Calderwood wasn't cheap either, by the way. Mad thing is that he came very, very highly recommended and was backed with decent money by the board (hence why they were reluctant to let him go at the first sign of his nonsense.

What are you basing that on? A reporter from the Newcastle Chronicle told me we got him for precisely nowt as he moved to us about 2 weeks after Chris Hughton was sacked at Newcastle, where Calderwood had been his assistant, so that timeline would stack up.

This was the same Calderwood who asked to be supplied with books about Hibs shortly after he joined because he knew nothing about the club, and who also couldn't wait to get out of Easter Road on a Saturday after the match so he could catch the 6 o'clock flight to London.

He certainly wasn't cheap to sack that's for sure, after Petrie spurned approaches from other clubs, and remember he was photographed chatting to Steve McLaren who was manager of Nottingham Forest at the time, in some shopping centre down south. McLaren wanted him on his coaching staff.

So if dear old Rodney had swallowed his pride, we might have actually got rid of him and got a few bags of sweeties in return, instead of eventually paying him off, so win-win, but that would've meant Petrie admitting his mistake in appointing the joker in the first place, and we couldn't have that, could we?

[Smartie]

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I think Fenlon would have done much better if he'd had the set up that Stubbs and everyone since Stubbs enjoyed.

As it was, I think the job was too big for Fenlon.

I don’t think it was too big in the sense of the size of the club, but he inherited a shambles, had a demanding support to please and had questionable support from Petrie and the board. I think almost any manager would have struggled at that time and he did as well as could reasonably be expected.

His last transfer window was a shocker though. I’d love to know exactly how we ended up with the relegation squad.

[skyhibs]

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Legend.

Why do people use this word legend for guys like this... yes he has done well and if he gets us out the group then we can maybe think about that status but defo not yet

[Northernhibee]

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I don’t think it was too big in the sense of the size of the club, but he inherited a shambles, had a demanding support to please and had questionable support from Petrie and the board. I think almost any manager would have struggled at that time and he did as well as could reasonably be expected.

His last transfer window was a shocker though. I’d love to know exactly how we ended up with the relegation squad.

The thing is, that wasn't a relegation squad under Fenlon. The football was eye bleeding as we didn't have any pace but Craig scored a fair few, Heffernan and Vine were showing signs of understanding between them and we were mid table when he left. I think the quality of football we played meant that a lot of fans were always going to turn on him after two or three bad games.

I also don't think that on paper Butcher would have been as bad an appointment as he turned out to be, but we could have had the team we have now and he'd have had us relegated.

[Andy74]

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I don’t think we improved any in Fenlon’s first season. He arrived in November when we were 10th. We finished 11th, securing our survival in the second last game of the season against Dunfermline. Of course the position we were in was little to do with him, but similarly I don’t think much of an argument can be made that he improved us that season.

As for average position, I wonder what Butchers average position would be. I think we only spent a couple of weeks in 11th. An average position doesn’t really mean anything IMO.

As for Fenlon. Nice guy but a poor manager for us IMO. Although I do have a lot of sympathy for him as we were run appallingly (Butcher saying we used Wikipedia as a big part of our scouting when he arrived always stuck with me and sums up how amateur we were run in that period).

Of course he improved us that first season. The position you quote wasn’t realistic as the teams around us had games in hand. We’d also just been beaten easily at home to Dunfermline. We were only heading one way.

[B.H.F.C]

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Of course he improved us that first season. The position you quote wasn’t realistic as the teams around us had games in hand. We’d also just been beaten easily at home to Dunfermline. We were only heading one way.

Under Calderwood we played 14 games and had 13 points. We were pish.

We then played 2 games under Brown and Nicholl and got 1 point. Not any better than Calderwood.

We then played 22 games under Fenlon and got 19 points. Not any better than Calderwood.

Struggle to see the improvement there?

[hibbysam]

The videos between Clarke and ‘Willie’ in Strathcarron hospice have been class. A real people’s manager, he gets it. Anyone who says football is just a game just needs to watch those videos to see how much delight and release football gives to people even in their worst times.

[MWHIBBIES]

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The thing is, that wasn't a relegation squad under Fenlon. The football was eye bleeding as we didn't have any pace but Craig scored a fair few, Heffernan and Vine were showing signs of understanding between them and we were mid table when he left. I think the quality of football we played meant that a lot of fans were always going to turn on him after two or three bad games.

I also don't think that on paper Butcher would have been as bad an appointment as he turned out to be, but we could have had the team we have now and he'd have had us relegated.

Agree with this except it was Heffernan and Collins. Vine genuinely never showed a thing.

[Caversham Green]

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Just when I forgot the bag of sweeties interview 😥

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What a prick he was, eh?

Steve Clarke also did a bag of sweeties thing when he was manager at Reading. Fulham approached him (with Reading's consent) and by all accounts he was about to be appointed when he decided he preferred the bag of sweeties he already had. The rumour from some Fulham fans was that he had tried to alter his terms of employment after the deal was done and Fulham's board were having none of it. The clubs both went out of their way to compliment each other's conduct but neither seemed to say much about Clarke. He was sacked by Reading a few weeks later and it seems few people at the club were sorry to see him go. A slightly strange episode all round.

[greenlex]

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Steve Clarke also did a bag of sweeties thing when he was manager at Reading. Fulham approached him (with Reading's consent) and by all accounts he was about to be appointed when he decided he preferred the bag of sweeties he already had. The rumour from some Fulham fans was that he had tried to alter his terms of employment after the deal was done and Fulham's board were having none of it. The clubs both went out of their way to compliment each other's conduct but neither seemed to say much about Clarke. He was sacked by Reading a few weeks later and it seems few people at the club were sorry to see him go. A slightly strange episode all round.

Altering terms of employment at the last minute you say? Sounds familiar.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Under Calderwood we played 14 games and had 13 points. We were pish.

We then played 2 games under Brown and Nicholl and got 1 point. Not any better than Calderwood.

We then played 22 games under Fenlon and got 19 points. Not any better than Calderwood.

Struggle to see the improvement there?

2 utterly useless managers. Add butcher and Heckingbottom to the same list.

Fenlon just had better chat and at least seemed to like being here.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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2 utterly useless managers. Add butcher and Heckingbottom to the same list.

Fenlon just had better chat and at least seemed to like being here.

Fenton was also fortunate enough to have 2 seasons worth of Leigh Griffiths - a luxury not afforded to the other duds

[Smartie]

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Fenton was also fortunate enough to have 2 seasons worth of Leigh Griffiths - a luxury not afforded to the other duds

True, but the Leigh Griffiths who left Hibs was a far superior player to the one who joined.

Fenlon was brilliant for Griffiths, whose outstanding progress was Fenlon’s greatest success. Part of it would have been down to Griffiths himself screwing the nut but he improved loads as a player under Fenlon.

I disagree with the “not a relegation squad under Fenlon” bit btw. The strikers were a problem, but not “the” problem - the problem was creating for them, there was f all in that squad once Harris and Cairney got injured. You could argue that there was f all creativity when they were available. Loads of holding midfielders of varying effectiveness. That was a squad capable of going on the horrible slump run we went on under Butcher - the “lose the first goal, lose the game” sort of run we ended up on whoever was the manager, especially with the threat / promise of little to no transfer activity in January.

I think Fenlon knew that better than anyone, and that was why he walked.