What's the chances of fans going back in September?

[allezsauzee]

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That's about 20% of their stadium's capacity. The equivalent for Easter Road would be about 4,000.

Still nuts when you consider that if Florida was a country, it would have the 6th highest number of cases in the world.

They were nuts enough to vote for Trump and probably will do so again (Florida and the USA), so lets not base our decisions on their logic. That said I think if there is no material increase in Covid related deaths once the schools and colleges have been back for month or so, we will see a return to normal or very near to it.

[Moulin Yarns]

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What happened after the infections is neither here nor there, that stopped further infections. 200 people tested positive, they had the virus, none of them have ended up in ICU or died from it, hence my questions about the severity of it now. Take those 200, 100+ in Perth, the outbreaks in Lanarkshire and Dumfries then I’d have thought at least one of those would have got seriously ill going on what happened back in April/May.

My point was completely about how many infections there were.

Where are you hearing there are over a hundred in Perth. Almost as bad as the poster who said they were in Cupar, a different town in a different county.

The 2 Sisters plant is in COUPAR ANGUS. The staff are from Perth and Kinross, Angus and Dundee.

[Sir David Gray]

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It’s been over 3 weeks now since the Aberdeen outbreak, 200 people confirmed COVID positive, how many of those have become seriously ill? None. Cases are at their highest they have been in months yet there is still only two in intensive care (the same two for weeks now) and no new deaths for goodness knows how long.

If that’s not proof that the virus is substantially weaker now than it was then I’d love to see the reasoning behind it. Everywhere else is opening up yet we want hibs to continue a lock out just for the sake of it.

The CMO was asked a pretty similar question to this at today's briefing and he said the virus wasn't changing and the fact that we're seeing less hospital admissions now is that most of the cases just now are in younger people. He also mentioned that the strain circulating in Europe just now appears to be more transmissible than it was a few months ago.

[Jones28]

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What happened after the infections is neither here nor there, that stopped further infections. 200 people tested positive, they had the virus, none of them have ended up in ICU or died from it, hence my questions about the severity of it now. Take those 200, 100+ in Perth, the outbreaks in Lanarkshire and Dumfries then I’d have thought at least one of those would have got seriously ill going on what happened back in April/May.

My point was completely about how many infections there were.

I still don’t know what your point is? You think the virus is weaker? Is that your point? It isn’t weaker, it’s because the people being exposed to it at the moment are younger, more able bodied people more capable of repelling it without further consequences. It’s evidence that lockdown, masks, shielding etc has been working but it also shows just how easily things can unravel.

Why put all the hard work we have all put in at risk for football when we already have it back? I’d love to be at games right now, but it’s not worth it, I still want to see loved ones, and I can watch Hibs on the tv. If that has to do then so be it.

[hibbysam]

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I still don’t know what your point is? You think the virus is weaker? Is that your point? It isn’t weaker, it’s because the people being exposed to it at the moment are younger, more able bodied people more capable of repelling it without further consequences. It’s evidence that lockdown, masks, shielding etc has been working but it also shows just how easily things can unravel.

Why put all the hard work we have all put in at risk for football when we already have it back? I’d love to be at games right now, but it’s not worth it, I still want to see loved ones, and I can watch Hibs on the tv. If that has to do then so be it.

They aren’t all young though, that’s just plain facts, and even if they were there were still youngsters supposedly seriously ill and in ICU back at the height of it. Your not telling me that out of all of the recent cases (probably into the high hundreds), that not one person ended up in ICU or died, and the virus is exactly the same as it was previously. Very few positive cases are showing symptoms these days also.

I don’t know if it’s weaker, hence why I’m asking the question, however looking at the bare facts in front of us it would be an extremely hard thing to argue against.

Your talking about what we’re doing to stop spreading the virus, I’m talking about the already positive tests and the outcomes of those, every single person recovering.

[Jones28]

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They aren’t all young though, that’s just plain facts, and even if they were there were still youngsters supposedly seriously ill and in ICU back at the height of it. Your not telling me that out of all of the recent cases (probably into the high hundreds), that not one person ended up in ICU or died, and the virus is exactly the same as it was previously. Very few positive cases are showing symptoms these days also.

I don’t know if it’s weaker, hence why I’m asking the question, however looking at the bare facts in front of us it would be an extremely hard thing to argue against.

Your talking about what we’re doing to stop spreading the virus, I’m talking about the already positive tests and the outcomes of those, every single person recovering.

See Sir David Grays reply above mine for what the CMO has said. I think I’ll take his opinion over your interpretation of the numbers.

The worldwide evidence would suggest you’re wrong. Changed behaviours have meant we have seen fewer cases in areas that have already been hit, but these places are seeing rocketing numbers of cases as things start to reopen. Then look around the world to South America we’re Argentina recorded 8,000 new cases in 24hrs the other day.

[G B Young]

I think we're in for a long wait before crowds of any significant size return.

With secondary schools set to introduce masks because of crowding when moving between classes I'm struggling to see how closely packed football crowds could possibly return any time soon. At least within schools any infection would, by and large, be within a community, but football fans can potentially come from all over the country.

I also note it's believed that pupils shouting to each other when moving between classes creates a higher risk of infection. Many folk shout or sing their way through football matches. Would that be allowed? Hard to imagine - although I guess singing/shouting with a mask on would be a challenge in itself!

[hibbysam]

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See Sir David Grays reply above mine for what the CMO has said. I think I’ll take his opinion over your interpretation of the numbers.

The worldwide evidence would suggest you’re wrong. Changed behaviours have meant we have seen fewer cases in areas that have already been hit, but these places are seeing rocketing numbers of cases as things start to reopen. Then look around the world to South America we’re Argentina recorded 8,000 new cases in 24hrs the other day.

‘Most of the cases are in younger people’ - so does that mean that no young person will end up in ICU, or die now? Which is completely different from a few months ago where young people ended up in ICU and died. And although most were young, they weren’t all young, so how come the older ones who tested positive aren’t getting seriously ill?

[18Craig75]

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‘Most of the cases are in younger people’ - so does that mean that no young person will end up in ICU, or die now? Which is completely different from a few months ago where young people ended up in ICU and died. And although most were young, they weren’t all young, so how come the older ones who tested positive aren’t getting seriously ill?

Hoping to see the CMO replaced by hibbysam at the FM’s daily briefing today. The virus is weaker, we can go back to the football!

[hibbysam]

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Hoping to see the CMO replaced by hibbysam at the FM’s daily briefing today. The virus is weaker, we can go back to the football!

We will be back at the football anyway. I’m sure they’ll release their stats of the ages who have transmitted the virus in the last month and a half since the last COVID positive death. Since then we’ve probably had 1000 positive tests, yet absolutely none of them ended up in ICU or died. Like I say, either the hospital treatments are better, or they’ve got a miraculous cure for it, or it is weaker.

[Keith_M]

I've decided that I'll be going to every home game from September, whether they change the rules or not.

I've worked out which part of the wall in the North East corner is the easiest to climb over and I'll be sitting in my seat waiting for the game to start, flask and sandwiches in hand

[Jones28]

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‘Most of the cases are in younger people’ - so does that mean that no young person will end up in ICU, or die now? Which is completely different from a few months ago where young people ended up in ICU and died. And although most were young, they weren’t all young, so how come the older ones who tested positive aren’t getting seriously ill?

Could it perhaps be that the NHS has had months of practice and are better able to treat the virus? I’m not the one to ask those questions, I’m not a doctor or a health professional.

Your point was that the virus has gotten weaker, the CMO says it hasn’t, the worldwide evidence says it hasn’t, you’re taking a tiny sample size and saying these people aren’t dying so that’s evidence that the virus is weaker when in reality the people that are going out to pubs are not vulnerable and our healthcare system is better placed to handle them. That’s why we’re not seeing the levels of deaths we were seeing.

[The dalmeny]

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They aren’t all young though, that’s just plain facts, and even if they were there were still youngsters supposedly seriously ill and in ICU back at the height of it. Your not telling me that out of all of the recent cases (probably into the high hundreds), that not one person ended up in ICU or died, and the virus is exactly the same as it was previously. Very few positive cases are showing symptoms these days also.

I don’t know if it’s weaker, hence why I’m asking the question, however looking at the bare facts in front of us it would be an extremely hard thing to argue against.

Your talking about what we’re doing to stop spreading the virus, I’m talking about the already positive tests and the outcomes of those, every single person recovering.

interesting piece in the beeb today saying it may be the case 1 in 8 caught the virus in hospital, what were saying is that that of the people who have the virus in hospital more than 10% did not go into hospital because of it.

[hibbysam]

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Could it perhaps be that the NHS has had months of practice and are better able to treat the virus? I’m not the one to ask those questions, I’m not a doctor or a health professional.

Your point was that the virus has gotten weaker, the CMO says it hasn’t, the worldwide evidence says it hasn’t, you’re taking a tiny sample size and saying these people aren’t dying so that’s evidence that the virus is weaker when in reality the people that are going out to pubs are not vulnerable and our healthcare system is better placed to handle them. That’s why we’re not seeing the levels of deaths we were seeing.

Our hospitals were never bursting at the seams. There was always capacity to deal with it. It’s not that we’re not seeing the levels of deaths, we aren’t seeing any deaths whatsoever. And to say vulnerable people aren’t going to pubs isn’t true, I’ve seen many over 60’s (just one strand of ‘vulnerable’) in pubs. But like I said, it wasn’t just vulnerable people dying and getting seriously ill, as we kept being told. Many healthy, young people also lost their lives we were told. Of course the risk is greater for the vulnerable group, but I’d say that group are out more now than they were then, after all they were shielding back then and aren’t now.

Like I said, I’d love to see the figures of ages broken down from our positive cases list.

The English CMO said there isn’t enough evidence to say its weakening, not that it isn’t, just that they can’t prove that it is.

[Jones28]

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Our hospitals were never bursting at the seams. There was always capacity to deal with it. It’s not that we’re not seeing the levels of deaths, we aren’t seeing any deaths whatsoever. And to say vulnerable people aren’t going to pubs isn’t true, I’ve seen many over 60’s (just one strand of ‘vulnerable’) in pubs. But like I said, it wasn’t just vulnerable people dying and getting seriously ill, as we kept being told. Many healthy, young people also lost their lives we were told. Of course the risk is greater for the vulnerable group, but I’d say that group are out more now than they were then, after all they were shielding back then and aren’t now.

Like I said, I’d love to see the figures of ages broken down from our positive cases list.

The English CMO said there isn’t enough evidence to say its weakening, not that it isn’t, just that they can’t prove that it is.

Capacity and experience are not the same thing. The point is that there’s been months of experience built up as well as people using preventative and precautionary techniques to stop the virus spreading so everyone is better placed to deal with it.

I’m seeing it with my local, people aren’t taking the precautions after a few pints which is why I’m not setting foot in a pub until we have a vaccine.

Anyway, the point of this is how quickly will we see fans back in games, but I think the clamour to get supporters back is a step too far, regardless of the levels within stadiums. We have football back, let’s not risk it, give it a bit more time and wait and see if a vaccine comes out in the next year or so.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Our hospitals were never bursting at the seams. There was always capacity to deal with it. It’s not that we’re not seeing the levels of deaths, we aren’t seeing any deaths whatsoever. And to say vulnerable people aren’t going to pubs isn’t true, I’ve seen many over 60’s (just one strand of ‘vulnerable’) in pubs. But like I said, it wasn’t just vulnerable people dying and getting seriously ill, as we kept being told. Many healthy, young people also lost their lives we were told. Of course the risk is greater for the vulnerable group, but I’d say that group are out more now than they were then, after all they were shielding back then and aren’t now.

Like I said, I’d love to see the figures of ages broken down from our positive cases list.

The English CMO said there isn’t enough evidence to say its weakening, not that it isn’t, just that they can’t prove that it is.

And to get actual data rather than plucked figures from the air.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html


https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/jun/11/who-does-coronavirus-kill-in-england-and-wales-visualising-the-data

[B.H.F.C]

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Capacity and experience are not the same thing. The point is that there’s been months of experience built up as well as people using preventative and precautionary techniques to stop the virus spreading so everyone is better placed to deal with it.

I’m seeing it with my local, people aren’t taking the precautions after a few pints which is why I’m not setting foot in a pub until we have a vaccine.

Anyway, the point of this is how quickly will we see fans back in games, but I think the clamour to get supporters back is a step too far, regardless of the levels within stadiums. We have football back, let’s not risk it, give it a bit more time and wait and see if a vaccine comes out in the next year or so.

There will be fans in stadiums well before there is a vaccine. Or certainly before any vaccine has been rolled out. If we have to wait for a vaccine to get fans back in to stadiums we won’t have teams to watch.

[hibbysam]

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And to get actual data rather than plucked figures from the air.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html


https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/jun/11/who-does-coronavirus-kill-in-england-and-wales-visualising-the-data

What figures were plucked from thin air?

[hibbysam]

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There will be fans in stadiums well before there is a vaccine. Or certainly before any vaccine has been rolled out. If we have to wait for a vaccine to get fans back in to stadiums we won’t have teams to watch.

There will be fans back in 2 weeks, and rightly so. Can do everything else but not enter a stadium to watch football.

[danhibees1875]

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There will be fans back in 2 weeks, and rightly so. Can do everything else but not enter a stadium to watch football.

You can't do everything else though.

Hopefully infections and deaths stay low as we get into having the school's open for a few weeks, that should allow some comfort in opening stadiums up partially and gradually increasing capacities.

[hibbysam]

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You can't do everything else though.

Hopefully infections and deaths stay low as we get into having the school's open for a few weeks, that should allow some comfort in opening stadiums up partially and gradually increasing capacities.

There’s very little in society that you can’t now do, or won’t be able to do after next week.

[danhibees1875]

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There’s very little in society that you can’t now do, or won’t be able to do after next week.

Unfortunately there's plenty of things that we still can't or shouldn't do.

It's the middle of August in Edinburgh, there's a plethora of events that would usually be on which aren't.

You shouldn't meet with more than 8 people inside or 15 outside, and you shouldn't go within 2 metres of someone who doesn't live in your house. These restrictions make things very difficult for a lot of different things - it's not just football, which has had a bit of dispensation in order to be allowed to play at all for TV.

[Jones28]

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There will be fans in stadiums well before there is a vaccine. Or certainly before any vaccine has been rolled out. If we have to wait for a vaccine to get fans back in to stadiums we won’t have teams to watch.

And then we have lock downs and seasons being postponed with no income to the club at all?

It doesn’t take much to see cities locked down, Aberdeen was one bar.

[B.H.F.C]

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And then we have lock downs and seasons being postponed with no income to the club at all?

It doesn’t take much to see cities locked down, Aberdeen was one bar.

If that happens it won’t because football has allowed fans back in, it’ll be because there is a much wider issue. Why should football not be afforded the same opportunity as other industries in terms of getting people back through the door, if it is deemed that it can be done safely?

Football, also, doesn’t need to stop if there is a localised lockdown, Aberdeen played whilst restrictions were in place up there and the games they did have postponed were only because some of their own players were implicated.

[Keith_M]

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... you shouldn't go within 2 metres of someone who doesn't live in your house. ....

Almost nobody is paying attention to that rule anymore.

I've noticed a difference in my daily walks in the park or visits to the local cafe or wherever, and it's like most people have given up on distancing (mask or no mask).

Almost everybody wears a mask in shops* but aside from that it's like there was no virus.




* In my experience, shop staff are the worst offenders for ignoring the rule. Not every shop, but almost every small grocers locally

[Moulin Yarns]

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What figures were plucked from thin air?

100+ in Perth. There are not more than 100 cases in Perth. I've already said that yesterday.

[danhibees1875]

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Almost nobody is paying attention to that rule anymore.

I've noticed a difference in my daily walks in the park or visits to the local cafe or wherever, and it's like most people have given up on distancing (mask or no mask).

Almost everybody wears a mask in shops* but aside from that it's like there was no virus.




* In my experience, shop staff are the worst offenders for ignoring the rule. Not every shop, but almost every small grocers locally

That's why I said shouldn't rather than couldn't - I agree, generally I think people aren't practicing the 2M rule.

Shop staff don't have to wear masks if they can maintain social distancing (I think).

[Jones28]

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If that happens it won’t because football has allowed fans back in, it’ll be because there is a much wider issue. Why should football not be afforded the same opportunity as other industries in terms of getting people back through the door, if it is deemed that it can be done safely?

Football, also, doesn’t need to stop if there is a localised lockdown, Aberdeen played whilst restrictions were in place up there and the games they did have postponed were only because some of their own players were implicated.

I’m in the minority here so I’m going to bow out. I’ve said what I’ve wanted say.

[bingo70]

“Not a single Glasgow fan will be allowed into their @pro14 game v Edinburgh at BT Murrayfield on Friday. All 700 supporters will be from Edinburgh season ticket holder data base who live nearest BT Murrayfield due to Covid restrictions.“

Apologies if covered already but SRU restricting numbers and issuing tickets based on who lives closest to the ground.

As someone who lives on Lochend road I wholeheartedly back this idea should Hibs decide to use a similar system 😂

I’m using a laughing emoji but I can quite imagine just how raj people will go if we do use the same system. Hopefully there’s another fairer way of doing it.

[Keith_M]

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That's why I said shouldn't rather than couldn't - I agree, generally I think people aren't practicing the 2M rule.

Shop staff don't have to wear masks if they can maintain social distancing (I think).

Sorry, I wasn't actually arguing for or against your point, just thought about that after you mentioned the 2M rule.