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Thread: Revisionism

  1. #1

    Revisionism

    Just read the new Tom English article on the Hearts relegation and reconstruction saga, the historical revisionism has already begun! We've seen this sort of thing before, Rangers liquidation being a prime example as that is a word rarely ever mentioned these days.

    Here's the article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53062777

    Two points I'll make on Tom English already changing the narrative:

    What we had on Monday was 26 of the 42 clubs who couldn't bring themselves to back a plan that would have spared three of their own members no end of misery, a plan that every last one of them would have supported had they been the one cast into the dismal plight of enforced relegation.
    Instead, they danced on the head of a pin for weeks, incapable of finding agreement on the number of clubs they wanted in each division or how many divisions or whether these divisions should be temporary or permanent. To paraphrase a line from Blackadder, in all of those discussions they made about as much progress as an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus. All of them said they had sympathy for the three clubs but if they did they had a strange way of showing it. Few, if any, of them thought it was fair that the three should suffer such a blow, but only a small number acted on those beliefs. The rest just declared the problem unsolvable and pulled the ladder up


    Here you can see he's creating a version of history that deflects from Hearts being the main instigators behind reconstruction, and instead is attaching blame to every other club. Whereas the vast majority of clubs have always rejected reconstruction, especially when more details have been clear to them.

    Because Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
    That's a lot harder to face up to if you're one of the clubs who has done them in. So nobody really wants to spend much time talking about Thistle because it's uncomfortable. Maybe there's a bit of guilt there. Better to divert and bombard Hearts instead. Safer ground, that.


    And here he creates another narrative, one of Hearts having the spotlight unwillingly thrust upon them by unscrupulous clubs. Tom English has written numerous articles covering this, I'd say he has been the biggest commentator on it. How many of his articles have centred on Hearts? How much coverage has he given to the other clubs?

    The truth here is Hearts have been the centre of attention as they have been the instigators of the story, they have been the driving force of all attempts at reconstruction and they have channeled their resources at being the focus of the story, the number of statements released to the press attests to that.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of a false narrative being carried forwards in years to come now, again something Hearts are no strangers to, St Liedown anyone?


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    Just read the new Tom English article on the Hearts relegation and reconstruction saga, the historical revisionism has already begun! We've seen this sort of thing before, Rangers liquidation being a prime example as that is a word rarely ever mentioned these days.

    Here's the article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53062777

    Two points I'll make on Tom English already changing the narrative:

    What we had on Monday was 26 of the 42 clubs who couldn't bring themselves to back a plan that would have spared three of their own members no end of misery, a plan that every last one of them would have supported had they been the one cast into the dismal plight of enforced relegation.
    Instead, they danced on the head of a pin for weeks, incapable of finding agreement on the number of clubs they wanted in each division or how many divisions or whether these divisions should be temporary or permanent. To paraphrase a line from Blackadder, in all of those discussions they made about as much progress as an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus. All of them said they had sympathy for the three clubs but if they did they had a strange way of showing it. Few, if any, of them thought it was fair that the three should suffer such a blow, but only a small number acted on those beliefs. The rest just declared the problem unsolvable and pulled the ladder up


    Here you can see he's creating a version of history that deflects from Hearts being the main instigators behind reconstruction, and instead is attaching blame to every other club. Whereas the vast majority of clubs have always rejected reconstruction, especially when more details have been clear to them.

    Because Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
    That's a lot harder to face up to if you're one of the clubs who has done them in. So nobody really wants to spend much time talking about Thistle because it's uncomfortable. Maybe there's a bit of guilt there. Better to divert and bombard Hearts instead. Safer ground, that.


    And here he creates another narrative, one of Hearts having the spotlight unwillingly thrust upon them by unscrupulous clubs. Tom English has written numerous articles covering this, I'd say he has been the biggest commentator on it. How many of his articles have centred on Hearts? How much coverage has he given to the other clubs?

    The truth here is Hearts have been the centre of attention as they have been the instigators of the story, they have been the driving force of all attempts at reconstruction and they have channeled their resources at being the focus of the story, the number of statements released to the press attests to that.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of a false narrative being carried forwards in years to come now, again something Hearts are no strangers to, St Liedown anyone?
    But no one at the BBC is biased though. ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    But no one at the BBC is biased though. ...

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    Hearts actually think the bbc are against them and added to the list of clubs and companies they hope to destroy. (They have history in doing so, just check the creditors list).

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    Hearts actually think the bbc are against them and added to the list of clubs and companies they hope to destroy. (They have history in doing so, just check the creditors list).
    Remember they also destroyed the German Empire.

  6. #5
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    Tom English needs to resign.

    If you are BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it is incumbent on you to acknowledge and reflect on different opinions. Not pick a side and relentlessly argue that side.

    As others have pointed out, he’s indulging in a fair bit of revisionism in his piece, so not even reporting the facts. The unevidenced accusation of misogyny is a disgrace. What kind of journalist is he?

    Budge accepted a leadership role in the reconstruction task force. It failed.

    She eventually put together her own proposal - the other clubs showed great patience in giving her extra time to do this - and it was an incoherent, unfinished mess. The clubs couldn’t even vote on it.

    Then the Rangers put forward a plan, and the SPFL took that and tried to find a way for enough clubs to vote through change based on a 14 team top league. It failed.

    Meanwhile, Budge threw insults, threats and attempted bribes from the touchline.

    Do you think the problem might be you, Ann Budge?

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    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    Hearts actually think the bbc are against them and added to the list of clubs and companies they hope to destroy. (They have history in doing so, just check the creditors list).
    They have a list?

    What are they going to do - run up lots of debt against those companies then go into admin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    Remember they also destroyed the German Empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    They have a list?

    What are they going to do - run up lots of debt against those companies then go into admin?

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    From what I can see they want to destroy the whole of Scottish football and boycott Sky/BBC/EEN and all sponsors of every club who voted for their demise as well as boycotting the Scottish cup and ruining the tournament.

    They can use the past businesses as references As to how serious they are at doing so.

    They’re the sideshow bob of Scottish football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    Remember they also destroyed the German Empire.
    Wish they would stop pushing reconstruction and just give us the cure to Covid 19. It is within their capabilities.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    From what I can see they want to destroy the whole of Scottish football and boycott Sky/BBC/EEN and all sponsors of every club who voted for their demise as well as boycotting the Scottish cup and ruining the tournament.

    They can use the past businesses as references As to how serious they are at doing so.

    They’re the sideshow bob of Scottish football.
    Some people just want to watch the world burn.

  12. #11
    He's just a sad ****er that's not dealt well with lockdown. He and Budge need medical help.

  13. #12
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    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    Just read the new Tom English article on the Hearts relegation and reconstruction saga, the historical revisionism has already begun! We've seen this sort of thing before, Rangers liquidation being a prime example as that is a word rarely ever mentioned these days.

    Here's the article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53062777

    Two points I'll make on Tom English already changing the narrative:

    What we had on Monday was 26 of the 42 clubs who couldn't bring themselves to back a plan that would have spared three of their own members no end of misery, a plan that every last one of them would have supported had they been the one cast into the dismal plight of enforced relegation.
    Instead, they danced on the head of a pin for weeks, incapable of finding agreement on the number of clubs they wanted in each division or how many divisions or whether these divisions should be temporary or permanent. To paraphrase a line from Blackadder, in all of those discussions they made about as much progress as an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus. All of them said they had sympathy for the three clubs but if they did they had a strange way of showing it. Few, if any, of them thought it was fair that the three should suffer such a blow, but only a small number acted on those beliefs. The rest just declared the problem unsolvable and pulled the ladder up


    Here you can see he's creating a version of history that deflects from Hearts being the main instigators behind reconstruction, and instead is attaching blame to every other club. Whereas the vast majority of clubs have always rejected reconstruction, especially when more details have been clear to them.

    Because Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
    That's a lot harder to face up to if you're one of the clubs who has done them in. So nobody really wants to spend much time talking about Thistle because it's uncomfortable. Maybe there's a bit of guilt there. Better to divert and bombard Hearts instead. Safer ground, that.


    And here he creates another narrative, one of Hearts having the spotlight unwillingly thrust upon them by unscrupulous clubs. Tom English has written numerous articles covering this, I'd say he has been the biggest commentator on it. How many of his articles have centred on Hearts? How much coverage has he given to the other clubs?

    The truth here is Hearts have been the centre of attention as they have been the instigators of the story, they have been the driving force of all attempts at reconstruction and they have channeled their resources at being the focus of the story, the number of statements released to the press attests to that.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of a false narrative being carried forwards in years to come now, again something Hearts are no strangers to, St Liedown anyone?
    John McGarry in the mail on the same band wagon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
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    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    The poppy fund appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
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    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    FBK Kaunas
    FC Partizan Minsk

    Did Romanov's basketball team go down with the sub as well? Not sure if they survived or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    Just read the new Tom English article on the Hearts relegation and reconstruction saga, the historical revisionism has already begun! We've seen this sort of thing before, Rangers liquidation being a prime example as that is a word rarely ever mentioned these days.

    Here's the article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53062777

    Two points I'll make on Tom English already changing the narrative:

    What we had on Monday was 26 of the 42 clubs who couldn't bring themselves to back a plan that would have spared three of their own members no end of misery, a plan that every last one of them would have supported had they been the one cast into the dismal plight of enforced relegation.
    Instead, they danced on the head of a pin for weeks, incapable of finding agreement on the number of clubs they wanted in each division or how many divisions or whether these divisions should be temporary or permanent. To paraphrase a line from Blackadder, in all of those discussions they made about as much progress as an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus. All of them said they had sympathy for the three clubs but if they did they had a strange way of showing it. Few, if any, of them thought it was fair that the three should suffer such a blow, but only a small number acted on those beliefs. The rest just declared the problem unsolvable and pulled the ladder up


    Here you can see he's creating a version of history that deflects from Hearts being the main instigators behind reconstruction, and instead is attaching blame to every other club. Whereas the vast majority of clubs have always rejected reconstruction, especially when more details have been clear to them.

    Because Hearts are the biggest of the three clubs facing relegation, most of the attention has been on them. That suits the other clubs who have voted against reconstruction. They want the argument focusing on Hearts and not Partick Thistle or Stranraer because it's easier to kick Hearts than it is Thistle, it's more convenient to bang on about Ann Budge - a misogynistic tone to some of it - and to mock Hearts' financial wastefulness and their awful decision-making than it is to confront the steepling injustice that is Thistle's situation.
    That's a lot harder to face up to if you're one of the clubs who has done them in. So nobody really wants to spend much time talking about Thistle because it's uncomfortable. Maybe there's a bit of guilt there. Better to divert and bombard Hearts instead. Safer ground, that.


    And here he creates another narrative, one of Hearts having the spotlight unwillingly thrust upon them by unscrupulous clubs. Tom English has written numerous articles covering this, I'd say he has been the biggest commentator on it. How many of his articles have centred on Hearts? How much coverage has he given to the other clubs?

    The truth here is Hearts have been the centre of attention as they have been the instigators of the story, they have been the driving force of all attempts at reconstruction and they have channeled their resources at being the focus of the story, the number of statements released to the press attests to that.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of a false narrative being carried forwards in years to come now, again something Hearts are no strangers to, St Liedown anyone?
    Just read it. He has actually lost the plot. So much for impartiality. Just doubling down on his view to save face. Would he be passionately pushing articles like this if it was Hamilton/St Mirren who were in last place? Now trying to tie in Particks situation for collateral. Truly incredible.

    I've tried to give Tom E the benefit of the doubt over the last few weeks but his pre-Budge agenda is getting cringeworthy now.

    The BBC can say goodbye to my license fee. Done with funding such nonsense.

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    I see English manages to get a dig at Donald Findlay in there too. Presumably still fuming at how the Cowden chairman outwitted him with ease yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    Tom English needs to resign.

    If you are BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, it is incumbent on you to acknowledge and reflect on different opinions. Not pick a side and relentlessly argue that side.

    As others have pointed out, he’s indulging in a fair bit of revisionism in his piece, so not even reporting the facts. The unevidenced accusation of misogyny is a disgrace. What kind of journalist is he?

    Budge accepted a leadership role in the reconstruction task force. It failed.

    She eventually put together her own proposal - the other clubs showed great patience in giving her extra time to do this - and it was an incoherent, unfinished mess. The clubs couldn’t even vote on it.

    Then the Rangers put forward a plan, and the SPFL took that and tried to find a way for enough clubs to vote through change based on a 14 team top league. It failed.

    Meanwhile, Budge threw insults, threats and attempted bribes from the touchline.

    Do you think the problem might be you, Ann Budge?
    Spot on.

  20. #19
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    I can understand why they feel aggrieved, as well as Partick Thistle and Stranrar. I even get what Tom English is on about. In the circumstances it is all very unfair, however in the present circumstances it is the least unfair outcome and that is what they are not getting. They are happy to inconvience the vast majority of clubs and create a set up which would have to be changed in a few years as the 14 team top tier was stupid. Tom English wears specs and I am guessing it is for short sightedness.

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    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Has anyone suggested the BBC Fact Check team have a look at his article?
    Space to let

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby rae View Post
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    In Tuesday's endgame they didn't even get close to a consensus.
    Just to pull this out. The majority said no, they didn't have to all agree on the plan as with the simple rules of voting state that the thing that the most people vote for is the thing that gets the most votes and is the thing that wins out.

    Where does it say everyone needed to agree? The only thing there has been consensus on as far as I have read is the "unanimous" voting by all of the clubs to end the season.

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    The man is an absolute arrogant sod.

    If the votes has went the other way he'd still have had something to say.

    Wish he'd go back to his (not very decent) rugby journalism instead of picking the pubes out of our game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Has anyone suggested the BBC Fact Check team have a look at his article?
    I fired in an official complaint to the BBC earlier in this saga and was told in no uncertain terms that Yam English is not biased and is impartial at all times, blah blah blah blah blah.....

    Sorry, BBC but he's clearly not impartial if he's siding with a story that's now about to become a civil matter. A matter that he knows little about and certainly has not one iota what any outcome might be.

    If there is one thing that is very, very annoying, it's a biased journalist.

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  25. #24
    The conduct of Tom English has been bizarre throughout this whole saga. It goes well beyond incompetence. He has been completely biased, and extremely venomous to anyone who won't disadvantage their own club to give Hearts a promotion they haven't earned and don't deserve.

    The way he's carried on you would think he has a large financial investment in Hearts. For whatever reason, it's clear that his relationship with Ann Budge has become far too cosy for him to be even remotely impartial.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estupendo View Post
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    The conduct of Tom English has been bizarre throughout this whole saga. It goes well beyond incompetence. He has been completely biased, and extremely venomous to anyone who won't disadvantage their own club to give Hearts a promotion they haven't earned and don't deserve.

    The way he's carried on you would think he has a large financial investment in Hearts. For whatever reason, it's clear that his relationship with Ann Budge has become far too cosy for him to be even remotely impartial.
    So much of this situation was in Hearts control. If they had won any other game all season they wouldn't have been bottom when Covid hit, if they had hired a competent manager who could have won them ONE other game, if they hadnt turned on their own Captain and damaged morale, if Budge had come up with a sensible and acceptable reconstruction plan when it was IN HER CONTROL TO DO SO, if they hadn't pissed off a number of clubs by the tone in their last proposal and maybe approached the whole thing with some humility instead of giving it the big I am routine and if she had sacked Levein / McPhee earlier even....

    THREE MORE POINTS over the 30 games played would have been all it would have taken to avoid the drop. But they failed, completely and consistently to save themselves when they had multiple opportunities to do so.

    But no its all the fault of the nasty SPFL and all the other nasty selfish clubs now and lackies like English are re-writing history to promote Saint Dr Mrs Budge and finger point at everyone else.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
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    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    Views of the castle.

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain G View Post
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    So much of this situation was in Hearts control. If they had won any other game all season they wouldn't have been bottom when Covid hit, if they had hired a competent manager who could have won them ONE other game, if they hadnt turned on their own Captain and damaged morale, if Budge had come up with a sensible and acceptable reconstruction plan when it was IN HER CONTROL TO DO SO, if they hadn't pissed off a number of clubs by the tone in their last proposal and maybe approached the whole thing with some humility instead of giving it the big I am routine and if she had sacked Levein / McPhee earlier even....

    THREE MORE POINTS over the 30 games played would have been all it would have taken to avoid the drop. But they failed, completely and consistently to save themselves when they had multiple opportunities to do so.

    But no its all the fault of the nasty SPFL and all the other nasty selfish clubs now and lackies like English are re-writing history to promote Saint Dr Mrs Budge and finger point at everyone else.
    This is true. If the season had played out they were a stick on for relegation anyway. They really have been that bad.

  29. #28
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    His articles should come with an opinion subheading. Mind you anyone who believes the BBC is unbiased nowadays.....

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabbage East View Post
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    We need a definitive list of things Hearts have destroyed. I'll start:

    The German Empire
    Themselves
    Lithuanian pension fund
    Us, as a club, apparently

    Anything else?
    Harry Potter’s chances of ever winning any sort of medal
    The noses of anyone who attempts to run up the staircase to nowhere !
    The credibility of the phrases ‘glass curtain’ and ‘our own training facility’
    Tom English’s career as a serious journalist

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by EI255 View Post
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    I fired in an official complaint to the BBC earlier in this saga and was told in no uncertain terms that Yam English is not biased and is impartial at all times, blah blah blah blah blah.....

    Sorry, BBC but he's clearly not impartial if he's siding with a story that's now about to become a civil matter. A matter that he knows little about and certainly has not one iota what any outcome might be.

    If there is one thing that is very, very annoying, it's a biased journalist.

    Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk
    I sent in a complaint today too. Regards partisan reporting,not reporting other teams views and the inference that other chairmen are sexist misogynists...

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