The generic Hearts thread

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Totally
Plus, hearts were desperate & deluded

Or as football agents call it "The Sweet Spot"

I still don't get the hype around his signing. You'd think they'd signed Messi. The money they are paying a pretty average player in my opinion is staggering especially for his contribution so far.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can’t see Aberdeen offering him anywhere near the crazy money Hearts were though. Any cut might still have him on a par with what he would have earned there. If they were offering a comparative salary in the first place then surely he would have just went there.

[Crazyhorse]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

"I cannot - and will not, in good conscience - leave the club in a position again where football debt is left as a 'legacy' for those who follow."

That sounds very much like she has thrown in the towel. She doesn't have the cash to pay the wages next week so she is desperately looking at ways to hide the debt for the soon to be appointed adminstrators.

She missed the furlough claim cut off date so she is lumbered with the lot. As salary is paid in arrears a failure to pay wages next week, even if she invokes C12, and its dubious applicability, she still owes them a months pay or indeed the team shortly to be called the "Team Previously Known As Hearts" will find themselves climbing back via the 5th, if not 6th tier of Scottish footballs new pyramid with a points penalty to boot.

Surely this is now the perfect time for Ann ‘Overbudget’ Budge to hand this sh**show over to the fans, they keep telling us they own it now. Perfect end to Queen Ann’s glorious reign.

[Springbank]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Surely this is now the perfect time for Ann ‘Overbudget’ Budge to hand this sh**show over to the fans, they keep telling us they own it now. Perfect end to Queen Ann’s glorious reign.

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.

[Springbank]

Before anyone who knows me starts worrying - that last post is just my view of Ann Budge

The fact hearts are stuck, either way, remains a source of great entertainment & joy for me during the otherwise difficult lockdown :)

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wages are paid in arrears so it is premiership wages they are due next weeks. I read somewhere that relegation clauses usually allow for a 25% reduction and not all contracts have them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And surley they will be entitled to premiership wages until it was meant to end

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Greenworld]

The thing is legally do they have the players by the balls so to speak ?
I know they are saying their QC says its all ok.
If that is the case you have no choice but to accept ? You either get nothing of reduced wages you decide.
Can the players walk away from there contract in that position?
So many questions

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.

There's a lot in this but any sympathy or recognition from me disappears when I reflect on her grandstanding, I know best approach.

Her legacy will be better than she inherited, it'll be a better admin and they'll nearly have one completed single tier stand.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Jack]

Budge has consistently said that she wants to hand over her club in a better position than it was when she scooped up the bargain basement club and for that to happen there must be no football debt.

But surely football debt only comes into it in the armageddon scenario of administration or bankruptcy?

In any other type of transfer of the club it's just a case of a "simple" transfer of assets as it was when Ron Gordon took over Hibs. Ron said "There's the dosh" STF said "There's the shares" they shake hands Ron is now the major shareholder/owner. There was no highlighting football debt must be considered. That's just part and parcel of the company.

[weecounty hibby]

Totally reading between the lines here. But football debt is the only debt that a ****ed up basket case like hearts needs to pay off if they go into administration. As has been seen before by clubs, hearts, Motherwell, Dundee and the Hun they can just jettison the majority of the other debt by paying pennies in the pound to get rid of it. I wonder is she is teeing them up for admin 2? By having admin 2 with no/minimal football debt the foundation of erses could take over their disgrace if a club for relatively small amounts. As Budget herself did
Edit. I should say that I am no financial wizard and can barely manage a kitty when out on the lash so take this as the musings of someone who would be happy to see them languishing in the lowland league for years!!!

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Budge has consistently said that she wants to hand over her club in a better position than it was when she scooped up the bargain basement club and for that to happen there must be no football debt.

But surely football debt only comes into it in the armageddon scenario of administration or bankruptcy?

In any other type of transfer of the club it's just a case of a "simple" transfer of assets as it was when Ron Gordon took over Hibs. Ron said "There's the dosh" STF said "There's the shares" they shake hands Ron is now the major shareholder/owner. There was no highlighting football debt must be considered. That's just part and parcel of the company.

Maybe the good doctor is preparing them for some debt disclosure / ongoing liabilities they maybe weren't expecting given how much cash has been handed over?

Items that would have been easier to conceal in times of normal cash flow? They did seem to hit the panic button very early even if the players chose not to co-operate.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Dearie me ! That statement's all over the place (as usual).

She says that the players "unanimously" understand the circumstances. What a pointless thing to say, apart from trying to portray an image of unity that obviously doesn't exist.

She goes on

"I am an owner and supporter who is committed to the journey of full fan ownership"

but also

"As a fan-owned club we are unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt"

Is this another "your share certificates are in the post" episode?

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

[tamig]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

I think they probably do. But if said comms guru was in charge of some of her previous statements over the years I’d suggest they weren’t very good. Remember the obsessive overuse of punctuation? Exclamation marks popping up every second sentence. They are just a poorly run club.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would have though that Boyce would not have a relegation clause given how likely it was. Otherwise he could have just signed for Aberdeen and have no risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree unlikely he would have signed if he did though maybe they upped his wages if relegation clause included. Might also have been a clause he could leave if relegated also.

[eezyrider]

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If she was a hard nosed successful business person she would do that

In a back handed compliment to her I dont think she wants to be a successful business woman here, if it means acting like a Mike Ashley & overtly shafting the fans, while walking away with a tidy sum ("the dont look back" approach)

The sad irony of her personal situation is that she actually does care (as far as I can see) that she hands over something to hearts fans that is better than what she inherited in 2014 - whether that is due to ego or pride or genuine sense of duty/care...but the hearts fans wont thank her now.

Sure, but it might be that she is just trying to protect her reputation. Obviously if the worst happens and Hearts go into admin again, her reputation will be in tatters.

I do feel some sympathy for her, as she is so clearly floundering out of her depth. Her silly statements and constant need to take the limelight are signs of just how far out of depth she is.

But the bottom line is that she is making the impact of this crisis on Scottish football worse, not better, and that is unforgivable.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

Very good point privately owned at present

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And they have already borrowed circa 900k if i remember correctly from 1 million borrowing pot!

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

[greenginger]

The

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe the good doctor is preparing them for some debt disclosure / ongoing liabilities they maybe weren't expecting given how much cash has been handed over?

Items that would have been easier to conceal in times of normal cash flow? They did seem to hit the panic button very early even if the players chose not to co-operate.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Budge must have have had a good reason for delaying the publication of her Bidco1874 company accounts .

[eezyrider]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You don’t need massive debt to go into admin, you just need to have not enough cash on hand to pay your bills.
I think one of the problems with clause 12 approach is that it may not be compatible with FIFA rules. FIFA are pretty strict that clubs honour contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

I’ve no idea how it would work to be honest, I had just read an opinion that the clause would not get past FIFA. Maybe only for international players. Maybe if they do it for one player they have to do it for all?

The best way to find out is for Hearts to go for it. I don’t think it’s ever been tested before so would be interesting to see what would happen. It would certainly damage Hearts reputation when it comes to signing new players though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

I think they would find it very difficult to borrow just now and also I don’t think she can because her deal is to hand over to FOH debt free. That’s why she is trying so hard to avoid deferment of wages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibbyfraelibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They aren't a fan owned club though. Another shocking statement from Budge. Does she not have a Pr/Comms person on the payroll?

Unlike the players that person was furloughed

[Mikey]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The contract that has that clause in it? If Hearts invoke it, they will be honouring it, no?

I wonder what the players union are saying about it?

[tamig]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If they don't have a massive debt they can always get extra borrowing to pay the bills - at a price given their history. I don't think they're in much danger at the moment but will be storing up trouble for the future.

EZ

I don’t think they have a bank credit line. Their borrowing is private. Most likely the same source as a chunk of their income.

[hibbyfraelibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

It's not just debt that can tip you into admin. The key is cash flow. As long as you can continue to meet your current liabilities you can bump along but when the income dries up as it has at HMFC and you cannot meet your £1.4m monthly commitments with your £140k bung from FoH you have a gap which unless say a player or 20 agrees to defer receipt of their payment the band in the background starts playing "Swanney"...as in yer up it.

[munchar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are Hearts in a massive amount of debt that they are in danger of Administration though?

I thought their rich benefactor kept bailing them out.

EZ

Still don’t understand this benefactor. Are they just donating funds endlessly with no return? Why not just invest in the club? How long can you keep throwing money down the tube? There must be a catch?

[tamig]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Still don’t understand this benefactor. Are they just donating funds endlessly with no return? Why not just invest bin the club? How long can you keep throwing money down the tube? There must be a catch?

Is it not the case that the benefactor flow has stopped - and that’s why they’re toiling so badly?