The generic Hearts thread

[CapitalGreen]

Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

[Bostonhibby]

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Swivel eyed, I like that. I'll try to use it more in conversation.

Swivel eyed loons.

Credit to call me Dave Cameron.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

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They'll need more than season tickets LH, I reckon they'll need to purchase more face paint, self raising flour, and chip fryers to get themselves out of the mess they are clearly in Mind, with social distancing they'll also need longer paint brushes so a trip to B&Q is on the cards too

They are in deep trouble...you cannot get flour in the shops for love nor money

[A Hi-Bee]

Don't Budge has found the old Santa Clawes 12 solution, what a shower they are just get them doon.

[007]

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The fact that their season tickets are on sale might just give them enough to cover their wages this month unfortunately!

They'll be using the season ticket money for transfer fees.

Maybe if they hadn't wasted money left, right and centre they wouldn't have ended up in this embarrassing position.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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And they should be due some furlough money for April and March soon as well
Not sure who they furloughed though

They have to pay the wages first themselves before they get the furlough money back from Government but they didn't furlough the players in time for the cut off

[A Hi-Bee]

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Surely the SPFL and SFA could quickly set up a Task Force to look at changing the rules so that one club doesn't have to comply with this rule for one season?

I can think of the ideal person to lead this group and there's every chance she will have agreed a group mission statement before the end of the year before moving onto sorting out group members uniform colours.

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Perhaps we could do as the Germans have done with the top richest clubs forming a solidarity fund and then dividing this out to the poorer clubs?
Just saying like, as I cannot think of anything else or way to help our neighbours at this trying time.
Ha,ha,ha, get them to **** doon and we dont need to hear them greeting much more.

[Caversham Green]

When Clause 12 refers to suspension does it mean the player doesn't get paid at all for the suspension period or does it mean that payment is deferred, either by an extension of the term of the contract or by payment in lieu? I think it must be the latter as reducing the total value of the contract doesn't seem like a fair provision.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When Clause 12 refers to suspension does it mean the player doesn't get paid at all for the suspension period or does it mean that payment is deferred, either by an extension of the term of the contract or by payment in lieu? I think it must be the latter as reducing the total value of the contract doesn't seem like a fair provision.

“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

To me, it looks like "this agreement" (the contract, presumably) is not enforceable while the game is suspended. In other words, a player may have a 3 year contract, but that is irrelevant for the period of the suspension. He gets paid nothing, and there's nothing to say that period will be tacked on at some future date. The last bit suggests that the club "might" make it up, but it isn't compulsory.

[nonshinyfinish]

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“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

To me, it looks like "this agreement" (the contract, presumably) is not enforceable while the game is suspended. In other words, a player may have a 3 year contract, but that is irrelevant for the period of the suspension. He gets paid nothing, and there's nothing to say that period will be tacked on at some future date.

Anyone know what the legal basis for this is? Seems to me that the league rules wouldn't affect the enforceability of a contract between club and player, unless there's something in the contract itself saying that it's subject to the league rules?

[Caversham Green]

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“In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or districts as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Pick the bones out of that....

I think that means that a two year contract which suffers a two month suspension will cease two years and two months after it started, with the full value of the contract being paid. If either party wants to terminate it earlier than a settlement would have to be agreed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think that means that a two year contract which suffers a two month suspension will cease two years and two months after it started, with the full value of the contract being paid. If either party wants to terminate it earlier than a settlement would have to be agreed.

Diametrically opposite to me

As ever, some lawyers will have a good earner from this.

[Ozyhibby]

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Diametrically opposite to me

As ever, some lawyers will have a good earner from this.

Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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[CropleyWasGod]

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Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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It's an SFA decision, and they have already suspended the game.

[Sammy7nil]

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Reading that statement it is very clear that they are in very big trouble.


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Surely the Hearts site has been hacked. That is not a statement of the most financially secure club in Scotland. The maroon pound must have plummeted in value.

Maybe she is signalling that they are deffo relegated and cream puffed.

Wonder what the players are saying.

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Odious behaviour. solely interested in saving her skin and a dubious 'legacy'. and all as a direct consequence of her personal gross incompetence.

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Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

just had a peek on way back you are all wrong it is a well thought out statement that addresses all the main points. Mrs Budgie is still well ahead of the curve and leading the way for Scottish football to follow.

[brog]

There's a couple of interesting comments there.
1. She doesn't want to leave fo9tball debt to the next owners. That almost sounds like a tacit acceptance of admin again.
2. She talks about 'remaining in Clause 12. That sounds like she's already done it & only paid March wages out of the goodness of her heart!
6 weeks since this started & it appears there's no agreements with the players. Happy days at Tiny!

[FilipinoHibs]

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Threatening to stop paying your staff to force through a wage cut - stay classy Jambos.

I thought Ann Budge was absolutely loaded, why isn’t she putting some of her own money in to help tide them over? Makes a bit of a mockery of her supposedly being the mystery benefactor all along.

Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Surely the minute the league is called, the game is no longer suspended but we are in the close season?


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Correct. The SPFL Board has been authorised irretrievably, to end the league now. They now have duty to call it without undue delay or they could be open to claims from players affected by C12. Not a lawyer (I knew both my parents) but if I were one employed by the players union I'd be chucking that one into the mix.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Correct. The SPFL Board has been authorised irretrievably, to end the league now. They now have duty to call it without undue delay or they could be open to claims from players affected by C12. Not a lawyer (I knew both my parents) but if I were one employed by the players union I'd be chucking that one into the mix.

The SFA has already suspended the game. That's what Clause 12 relies on. Therefore clubs are entitled to use it now.

[Ozyhibby]

One thing is for sure, once this clause has been used it will be gone from all future contracts. The players won’t sign unless it is.


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[007]

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Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

I'm surprised anyone thinks she is the mystery benefactor. If she'd put any money in for nothing in return we'd know all about it. There'd be statements and press releases all over the internet before the Tynecastle office junior returned from banking the cheque. (She's the last person in the country with a chequebook).

[007]

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One thing is for sure, once this clause has been used it will be gone from all future contracts. The players won’t sign unless it is.


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Very true. IIRC when it first came up it was said only 1 or 2 players in Scotland had had it taken out. Makes you wonder if any of them have a solicitor go over the document for them before they sign it.

[Carheenlea]

The old Maroon pound doesn’t seem to stretch very far nowadays.

[CapitalGreen]

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Not really. If she is the mystery benefactor then she will have made a big dent in her fortune. There comes a point where she would have to stop. Funny how the benefactor was never there in the hour of need - admin and now. But there to finish the vanity stand and try and keep the club being successful to generate the revenues to get Budge's money back.

If you take the donations, the initial £2.4 million loan and the further £1.9 million loan that is about 50% of her fortune. She clearly wants out with the least further monetary damage.

It’s 1.20am over there Raph get yourself off to bed.

[Bostonhibby]

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Perhaps we could do as the Germans have done with the top richest clubs forming a solidarity fund and then dividing this out to the poorer clubs?
Just saying like, as I cannot think of anything else or way to help our neighbours at this trying time.
Ha,ha,ha, get them to **** doon and we dont need to hear them greeting much more.

I've got some out of date self raising flour they could have for the next cake bake but I'd like some say in what sort of cakes they make this time around.

That battenberg one that they eventually turned into a football strip made me think they weren't worth saving the last time.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

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The SFA has already suspended the game. That's what Clause 12 relies on. Therefore clubs are entitled to use it now.

That is not the point I am making. The league may be suspended at present but no club has exercised C12 anywhere in Scotland.

Having now been empowered to end the SPFL season they have ended the Championship, L1,L2. They defered doing so for The Prem until the UEFA meeting yesterday, at which Belguim and Scotland made representations to allow them to end their seasons as stand.

Uefa confirmed the criteria and both Scotland and Belguim meet one or both.

The League should therefore be called as is at the SPFL Board meeting on Monday. If teams use any delay to invoke C12 then the SPFL, as a members organisation, could be seen to be colluding with its member(s) to unlawfully deny a player his rightful payment or to have done so to avoid the nullification of said contract due to non-fulfilment of a material condition.

That said C12 will in itself be a contentious issue challengeable in court on the grounds that it is an unreasonably onerous condition imposed by an individual or organisation, not a party to the contract, which in effect represents s restriction to trade under EU Law, still applicable in the transition period.

Additionally in commencing a court action against say HMFC and others the pursuer can ask that the defender place bond to cover the pursuers costs should the defender lose. In light of say HMFC's parilous finance a Sherrif at stage one may make an order to that effect.

Budgie is dicing with disaster if she thinks she can go down this route without serious risk to the company (HMFC) and the SPFL wont want to be party to an action that could financially penalise its members.

Not saying it could, would or should happen just demonstating a potential scenario the PFA and its members might seek to pursue.

[Waxy]

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The old Maroon pound doesn’t seem to stretch very far nowadays.

😂

[Ozyhibby]

Only 6 years on from Vlad and it looks like we are only days away from another wages default from Hearts. They will never change.


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[Barney McGrew]

So are Hertz now in the strange position where a substantial number of their players will want the league to be called and their team relegated so that clause 12 becomes null and void and they get paid in full going forward?

That will do wonders for squad unity.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So are Hertz now in the strange position where a substantial number of their players will want the league to be called and their team relegated so that clause 12 becomes null and void and they get paid in full going forward?

That will do wonders for squad unity.

Clause 12 would still apply in the Championship, if that's what you mean?