The generic Hearts thread

[Danderhall Hibs]

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If yer auntie had baws and all that, we are where we are NOW. We can only give judgement on what has happened, not what might happen.

Hibs could win every game from now on and take third place and Europe, and gain the financial rewards that that gives, but we will never know.

There’s always going to be someone missing out - as Hibs said the least bad option has to be chosen. They can’t pick n mix.

[brog]

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To be fair to the benefactor, my impression was that they were helping to bankroll the new stand, in the hope it would provide something tangible and revenue generating. Much like Farmer did with Hibs.

I think it seems as though they were happy to give to a tangible project for the future, but providing cash to fall into the bottomless pit of ongoing funding was not their intention - again not unlike Farmer with us.

Obviously financial trouble will not help, with wealth of many being hit quite hard.

I think your scenario is as likely as any other. One thing I don't really get however is the automatic assumption on this thread that Benny Factor's wealth must have been hard hit by the current situation. Paper wealth possibly but in a Bear Market, there's still plenty ways for investors to make money & in fact betting against the £ has been a regular source of huge profits for nearly 30 years now. If his/her wealth is mostly in shares & that is how they fund Hearts, then they will only lose out if they sell now. Many investors are buying at the bottom & also riding out the storm with their current portfolio. I speak as someone who bought BA shares on the day before 9/11 & eventually still sold at a profit, along with others that I bought at a very low price 2 or 3 days after 9/11.
I think your enough is enough scenario is much more plausible, but like many on here I'm intrigued as to the identity, the rationale & the transparency (or lack of) of the process by which the funding of Hearts occurs. I still can't rid myself of the feeling that there's a correlation between the huge overspend on the stadium & the unattributable donations to Hearts!

[lord bunberry]

There seems to be quite a few European countries relaxing restrictions, maybe playing the games isn’t as far fetched as I thought. There’s a team in Spain starting training again and they’ve been one of the worst hit countries.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yep. I can't cut & paste the note, but it says they've done cashflow projections to June 2021 which include 'continued growth' from the features of the new stand that were already in operation, new income from the Skyline Lounge, a commitment to future donations from Benny, the continuation of the £1m loan facility, continued financial support from Bidco (separate from the loan) and continued support from FOH.

I suspect those first two would have been optimistic but not beyond the realms of possibility and Budge's recent behaviour suggests she's reluctant to carry on funding them. The rest can only be guessed at, but it's clear why they're not in a happy place right now.

And yes, I know that was more than a word or two.

The donations were only relied on for the 1st quarter of 19/20. They would have had them by the time the accounts were finalised.

You going for the singular Benny? I am still with the plural, although the use of the word "bennies" to keep someone awake takes us into a different world......

[AltheHibby]

"You going for the singular Benny? I am still with the plural, although the use of the word "bennies" to keep someone awake takes us into a different world......"

Takes me to the Falklands. Is that what you mean?

[Caversham Green]

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The donations were only relied on for the 1st quarter of 19/20. They would have had them by the time the accounts were finalised.

You going for the singular Benny? I am still with the plural, although the use of the word "bennies" to keep someone awake takes us into a different world......

Not so. FillipinoHibs has helpfully provided the exact wording - it says "Donations of £500k received in the first quarter of season 2019/2020 and commitment to future funding". The extent of that funding isn't quantified but if previous results are anything to go by it will be in the millions.

As for Benny, I'm not sure if his surname is Factor or Factors, but I'm not going to be using bennies for the time being.

[Biggie]

Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

[Dibben]

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Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

I always thought it was a deal between STF and the Bank.

STF pays £x and the balance is written off!??

[FilipinoHibs]

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[/B]
I think your scenario is as likely as any other. One thing I don't really get however is the automatic assumption on this thread that Benny Factor's wealth must have been hard hit by the current situation. Paper wealth possibly but in a Bear Market, there's still plenty ways for investors to make money & in fact betting against the £ has been a regular source of huge profits for nearly 30 years now. If his/her wealth is mostly in shares & that is how they fund Hearts, then they will only lose out if they sell now. Many investors are buying at the bottom & also riding out the storm with their current portfolio. I speak as someone who bought BA shares on the day before 9/11 & eventually still sold at a profit, along with others that I bought at a very low price 2 or 3 days after 9/11.
I think your enough is enough scenario is much more plausible, but like many on here I'm intrigued as to the identity, the rationale & the transparency (or lack of) of the process by which the funding of Hearts occurs. I still can't rid myself of the feeling that there's a correlation between the huge overspend on the stadium & the unattributable donations to Hearts!

Think you are going to wait a long time before time before you get your money back this time. US economy set to shrink 8.5% in next three months. It will take 18 months to open up economies again to anything resembling the pre virus era. People will save rather than spend after this shock. The only way to have made money during this crisis was to sell stocks and oil ahead to the big falls. Currencies have been all over the place going up and down. This will be the worst recession since the 1930s. In the US 17 million have lost their jobs in 3 weeks. Bleak times I am afraid.

[lord bunberry]

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Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

There’s no way it was £8m.

[Ozyhibby]

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Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

It was because the banks were really struggling for cash at the time and wanted out of football anyway. We saw an opportunity to help the banks out by offering an early repayment in return for a discount on the total. A simple business transaction that did not adversely affect our credit rating or result in any kind of insolvency event. Just us doing the right thing to help out the bank.


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[Aldo]

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Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

Rearrange this well know phrase

At Grasping Straws

The irony is unbelievable given what they did in respect of bumping local businesses and charities.


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[Caversham Green]

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There’s no way it was £8m.

Correct. We didn't even owe the bank £8m far less have it all written off. Only STF and the bank know the details of that transaction and neither of them are going to make those details public.

[Since452]

The love affair between Rangers and Hearts fans online is nauseating. Flirting, snogging, and body fluids everywhere

[Peevemor]

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Correct. We didn't even owe the bank £8m far less have it all written off. Only STF and the bank know the details of that transaction and neither of them are going to make those details public.

It looked like both the bank and STF took a hit. STF settled with the bank for an undisclosed sum which he asked to be repaid, in part, £5m total interest free over 10 years.

[FilipinoHibs]

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I always thought it was a deal between STF and the Bank.

STF pays £x and the balance is written off!??

Farmer made Hibs a £9.5 million loan to pay off the debt in full. £4.5m converted to shares and the other £5.5m an interest free mortgage. Ron bought the shares and mortgage and converted the mortgage into shares.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5060

[James Stephen]

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So the league are ok with anonymous benefactors contributing unlimited amounts on a tax free basis?

So owners don’t pump your taxed cash injections into your club - simply use a spouse, family member, close business associate and shield the tax
from HMRC.

If the case l? it would be just like Hearts to take this to the extreme...

I dont know anything about that! I was just speculating as to motives of the benefactor.

Given the almost total absence of financial governance around football, I think we would be surprised if the football authorities had any view.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Not so. FillipinoHibs has helpfully provided the exact wording - it says "Donations of £500k received in the first quarter of season 2019/2020 and commitment to future funding". The extent of that funding isn't quantified but if previous results are anything to go by it will be in the millions.

As for Benny, I'm not sure if his surname is Factor or Factors, but I'm not going to be using bennies for the time being.

Fair do's. Missed that bit.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Kelty can’t just be handed promotion - if the team currently below them wins all their remaining games they’d be tied and it would be down to goal difference.

The Highland League is already called, its just the fact that they are Kelty HEARTS then?😉😉😉

[Danderhall Hibs]

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The Highland League is already called, its just the fact that they are Kelty HEARTS then?😉😉😉

Kelty are in the Lowland league, I forgot Hearts was in their name.

Their manager is Barry Ferguson - I think his pals in the media are pushing their name in to the equation as a favour.

[Tug Wilson]

To be fair Hearts are fighting for their Premiership survival.

Possibly even their survival full stop.

If Hibs were in this position then I would fully expect Ron Gordon and Leeann Dempster to be fighting tooth and nail for what suits Hibs and not be concerned with any greater good of Scottish football.

And we as fans would be clutching at any straws that served up the possibility of remaining in the Premiership.

In their situation, self interest has to be their only consideration.

The position taken by The Rangers on the other hand is one of sheer petulance. They are trying to hold Scottish football to hostage just to stop a rival team inevitably winning the league. Petty, childish and down right wrong.

Dundee's current thinking can only be that if there is a 14 team Premiership next season that takes United and ICT out of the Championship and no Hearts dropping down then they should canter next season's league and easily secure promotion. A bit Machiavellian but that can be their only thinking.

Of course it could also be that The Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Inverness, Partick and Stranraer have always been the holders of the moral high ground of Scottish football and their current league positions (or that of Celtic's in the case of The Rangers) has no bearing on their voting.

[brog]

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Think you are going to wait a long time before time before you get your money back this time. US economy set to shrink 8.5% in next three months. It will take 18 months to open up economies again to anything resembling the pre virus era. People will save rather than spend after this shock. The only way to have made money during this crisis was to sell stocks and oil ahead to the big falls. Currencies have been all over the place going up and down. This will be the worst recession since the 1930s. In the US 17 million have lost their jobs in 3 weeks. Bleak times I am afraid.

You may be right but in an election year Trump will do everything possible to get the share price back up. The oil quota deal's already been done & I would expect a raft of stimuli to help in next few months. Meanwhile buy oil, dividends are excellent, but sell within a year or 2!

[Rumble de Thump]

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To be fair Hearts are fighting for their Premiership survival.

Possibly even their survival full stop.

If Hibs were in this position then I would fully expect Ron Gordon and Leeann Dempster to be fighting tooth and nail for what suits Hibs and not be concerned with any greater good of Scottish football.

And we as fans would be clutching at any straws that served up the possibility of remaining in the Premiership.

In their situation, self interest has to be their only consideration.

The position taken by The Rangers on the other hand is one of sheer petulance. They are trying to hold Scottish football to hostage just to stop a rival team inevitably winning the league. Petty, childish and down right wrong.

Dundee's current thinking can only be that if there is a 14 team Premiership next season that takes United and ICT out of the Championship and no Hearts dropping down then they should canter next season's league and easily secure promotion. A bit Machiavellian but that can be their only thinking.

Of course it could also be that The Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Inverness, Partick and Stranraer have always been the holders of the moral high ground of Scottish football and their current league positions (or that of Celtic's in the case of The Rangers) has no bearing on their voting.

If we were in the position Hearts are in it would be because we'd be the worst team in the league and a very badly run club. We would only have ourselves to blame.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Who in their current squad do you think have relegation clauses? Could either save them a bit of money or cost them more paying that in the championship.

[jacomo]

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There’s always going to be someone missing out - as Hibs said the least bad option has to be chosen. They can’t pick n mix.

If this deal goes through the history books will show that Hibs failed to make the top 6 AGAIN.

Still, we are where we are.

[Tug Wilson]

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If we were in the position Hearts are in it would be because we'd be the worst team in the league and a very badly run club. We would only have ourselves to blame.

Absolutely but we would still expect our owner and CEO to try every trick in the book to save our skins.

What would be different would be that we would not be trying to blame everyone else for our predicament.

[jacomo]

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Absolutely but we would still expect our owner and CEO to try every trick in the book to save our skins.

What would be different would be that we would not be trying to blame everyone else for our predicament.

And perhaps we would be more honest about our motives?

Budge is trying to claim she is working for the good of Scottish football, but is obviously just acting in her own self-interest.

[Kato]

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Kind of hearts related, but some rocket on twitter is trying to throwback the fact hibs got £8m written off by the bank in 2014....to counter the fact the yams *****ed £35m..
Can anyone remember why this happened?

Planet Jambo, £40 million debt forgiveness through some Panamanian shell company is "astute", allowing a money launderer to launch tens of millions through your club is deserving of the title "sweet Prince, an auld biddy making a shop front (in more ways than one) of a building project and doubling the cost is seen as a "Queen".

Whereas paying a mortgage off early and saving cash means your a crook. They are weirdos of the highest order.

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[Billy Whizz]

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If this deal goes through the history books will show that Hibs failed to make the top 6 AGAIN.

Still, we are where we are.

So wonder if the players were due a bonus for Top 6, and St Johnstone get it

[The 90+2]

Hearts are actually looking for league places to stand so they get their players out on the relegation clause before then league construction.