Coronavirus

[HibernianJK]

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I don't say the above as any kind of anti-SNP/political statement, just to be clear. But you can't have the CMO standing before the nation on a daily basis preaching one thing and then doing the other - it's textbook hypocrisy, and how many people are going to look at that and think "well, that means I can do x".

For what it's worth, yes, I would also agree Hancock is in an untenable position but I can't guarantee that position IS devoid of political feeling. But seeing him coughing his way through the opening of the ExCel suggested he wasn't fully recovered. Why the Government insist on 7 days rather than 14 remains a mystery to me.

Yeah I know mate wasn’t a dig about that.

I’m an SNP supporter than the the CMO made a serious mistake and error in judgement and deserves to be heavily criticised for it, just like Hancock (although he seems to have got off lightly) but I don’t think either would have deserved to lose their job.

[Sir David Gray]

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Re CMO.

She has been a silly girl. She should come out and apologise sincerely.

But I would suggest that she is doing a reallly good day job and given we are in the midst of a health crisis she should stay in role.

Pitch forking for another day.

Disagree.

If the public are going to be forced indoors and maybe even have further restrictions forced upon them over the coming weeks and months then it's going to be hard enough to get people to comply.

To have any chance at all, the public need to see that those in charge who are imposing and recommending such restrictions are practicing what they are preaching.

There's a trust issue at play here and you cannot have the Chief Medical Officer flouting the rules when it suits her but yet have her fronting daily briefings and adverts all the time spelling out to people the limited reasons they must have for being able to leave their homes.

Her position's untenable in my opinion, at least from a public facing perspective and if she's not removed from her position then the government are going to find it impossible to get the cooperation from the public.

[RyeSloan]

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Ah, so the rules don’t apply to people who are good at their jobs?
Surely that is going to complicate enforcement?


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Have to admit that made me laugh!

[Betty Boop]

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Disagree.

If the public are going to be forced indoors and maybe even have further restrictions forced upon them over the coming weeks and months then it's going to be hard enough to get people to comply.

To have any chance at all, the public need to see that those in charge who are imposing and recommending such restrictions are practicing what they are preaching.

There's a trust issue at play here and you cannot have the Chief Medical Officer flouting the rules when it suits her but yet have her fronting daily briefings and adverts all the time spelling out to people the limited reasons they must have for being able to leave their homes.

Her position's untenable in my opinion, at least from a public facing perspective and if she's not removed from her position then the government are going to find it impossible to get the cooperation from the public.

Well said.

[Peevemor]

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New statement from her. Basically sorry she was caught.


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"While I and my family..."

I would sack her for that alone.

[Barney McGrew]

1559 patients across England are currently being treated in intensive care

[patch1875]

My 80yo uncle is currently in hospital with it. He’s doing ok but they trying to keep his temperature under control.

[lapsedhibee]

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"While I and my family..."

I would sack her for that alone.

?

[Since90+2]

Perhaps the easy answer for the CMO is to allow her to work in the background if she is doing a good job but take her away from public engagements and television appeals.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Yeah I know mate wasn’t a dig about that.

I’m an SNP supporter than the the CMO made a serious mistake and error in judgement and deserves to be heavily criticised for it, just like Hancock (although he seems to have got off lightly) but I don’t think either would have deserved to lose their job.

She’s a civil servant, not a political appointee. She could be a raving Tory No voter for all we know.

Anyway, that aside it’s spectacularly ill judged. What was she thinking?

[Hibby Bairn]

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Ah, so the rules don’t apply to people who are good at their jobs?
Surely that is going to complicate enforcement?


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I didn’t say that. I said that in the context of where we are (health crisis) and (she seems to be leading this well in her day job) then any recriminations should wait for another day.

I suspect she is working 18 hour days. Hardly ever sees her family. Goes to bed thinking about deaths. Wakes up thinking about deaths. The collective weight of 5m people on her shoulders.

As I say she has been a silly girl. But bigger picture of where we are she should continue in role.

That would be my view.

[lord bunberry]

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Disagree.

If the public are going to be forced indoors and maybe even have further restrictions forced upon them over the coming weeks and months then it's going to be hard enough to get people to comply.

To have any chance at all, the public need to see that those in charge who are imposing and recommending such restrictions are practicing what they are preaching.

There's a trust issue at play here and you cannot have the Chief Medical Officer flouting the rules when it suits her but yet have her fronting daily briefings and adverts all the time spelling out to people the limited reasons they must have for being able to leave their homes.

Her position's untenable in my opinion, at least from a public facing perspective and if she's not removed from her position then the government are going to find it impossible to get the cooperation from the public.

What worries me is if they start to enforce stricter measures like banning exercise because people have been abusing the guidelines. She’s already lost a lot of credibility, but an exercise ban would lead to people looking at her on tv and blaming her for the position their in. The message coming from government has to be strong and people have to buy into what their saying, if the people saying it have lost credibility, then what they’re saying won’t be believed.

[Peevemor]

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?

I was always taught that it was more polite/correct to put others before yourself.

The Queen, for example, never says "I and my husband".

[lord bunberry]

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I didn’t say that. I said that in the context of where we are (health crisis) and (she seems to be leading this well in her day job) then any recriminations should wait for another day.

I suspect she is working 18 hour days. Hardly ever sees her family. Goes to bed thinking about deaths. Wakes up thinking about deaths. The collective weight of 5m people on her shoulders.

As I say she has been a silly girl. But bigger picture of where we are she should continue in role.

That would be my view.

She’s not a silly girl, she’s a grown adult, an educated woman who should know better.

[Sir David Gray]

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What worries me is if they start to enforce stricter measures like banning exercise because people have been abusing the guidelines. She’s already lost a lot of credibility, but an exercise ban would lead to people looking at her on tv and blaming her for the position their in. The message coming from government has to be strong and people have to buy into what their saying, if the people saying it have lost credibility, then what they’re saying won’t be believed.

Agree with that.

[Hibs90]

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I didn’t say that. I said that in the context of where we are (health crisis) and (she seems to be leading this well in her day job) then any recriminations should wait for another day.

I suspect she is working 18 hour days. Hardly ever sees her family. Goes to bed thinking about deaths. Wakes up thinking about deaths. The collective weight of 5m people on her shoulders.

As I say she has been a silly girl. But bigger picture of where we are she should continue in role.

That would be my view.

Suspect? So you don't actually know then? Cool.

[CapitalGreen]

Nothing like a good pile-on to alleviate the boredom of self-isolation.

[Scorrie]

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If she has to go, shouldn't Prince Charles as well? Or at the very least, not be invited to open hospices/hospitals for a bit?

Yep. And to think his maw is coming on the telly tonight to say how we need to be stoic and stay at home when her son and his entourage travelled the length of the country and then got tested is beyond hypocrisy

[silverhibee]

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She’s been caught and she’d be better off holding her hands up.

I’d say she’s been quite impressive up until now too.

Has it only been the one time she has done this, I would say no, someone has tipped the press off about her and have been waiting for her to go for a stroll with her family at her second house in Fife, you can tell in the picture that her and the husband have spotted the photographer, and I can't see the dogs either so not adhering to the rules about keeping them on a leash, what a stupid woman she is.

[lord bunberry]

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Nothing like a good pile-on to alleviate the boredom of self-isolation.

It’s not a pile on. She’s made a serious mistake at a time when mistakes can cost lives. Credibility is everything right now.

[silverhibee]

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People are being deliberately obtuse about the rules. To put it bluntly they are playing the fool.

You can leave your home for food and medicine but it should be done as little as possible. That's simple enough. You shouldn't visit or arrange to meet anyone, even friends and family. The exception being if you have to get either of the above goods to someone who can't do it themselves and there is no alternative available. Again simple enough. When you are out you should attempt to maintain a 2 metre distance from those around you. That's straightforward enough to me. You are allowed to excercise outdoors once a day. That may be a bit more ambiguous but this is where the wilful lack of common sense comes in. We shouldn't be partaking in anything but essential travel. Is it essential to drive to Loch Lomond or Snowdon or the Peak District to walk? Is it even essential to drive to a local park or beach? The answer is no so excercise from home. That seemed clear to me from day one and I still don't get how anyone doesn't understand that.

The biggest mistake the respective governments of the UK seem to have made is trying to credit people with a bit of intelligence.

That's how I see it as well.

[lord bunberry]

I don’t think we’ll have to worry much about people getting out to enjoy the good weather here, the weather is *****.

[B.H.F.C]

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Has it only been the one time she has done this, I would say no, someone has tipped the press off about her and have been waiting for her to go for a stroll with her family at her second house in Fife, you can tell in the picture that her and the husband have spotted the photographer, and I can't see the dogs either so not adhering to the rules about keeping them on a leash, what a stupid woman she is.

She’s only sorry because she got caught. Ridiculously stupid.

[green day]

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I didn’t say that. I said that in the context of where we are (health crisis) and (she seems to be leading this well in her day job) then any recriminations should wait for another day.

I suspect she is working 18 hour days. Hardly ever sees her family. Goes to bed thinking about deaths. Wakes up thinking about deaths. The collective weight of 5m people on her shoulders.

As I say she has been a silly girl. But bigger picture of where we are she should continue in role.

That would be my view.

Just to be 100% clear, her husband and family are culpable here too. They were all pictured clapping the NHS on Thursday outside their actual home in Murrayfield.

They have clearly buggered off (like most of the top laywers and doctors in Edinburgh do in normal times) to their usual "weekend holiday homes" in Elie / Earlsferry.

So she has not been spending days and nights away from the family at all, they have decided to take a few days off in Fife - and this is 100% against the Scottish Government policy on 2nd homes during the CV19 outbreak.

...........and all this on a weekend when the UK Govt are saying the police will be struggling to keep people out of large groups because of the warmer weather ! Jesus Christ

There simply cant be one rule for the plebs and another for the likes of her / Prince Charles etc - frankly she may have caused deaths by her action, its disgraceful and she should be sacked.

[silverhibee]

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A Scottish government spokesman said on Saturday: “Since the start of this epidemic, the CMO has been working seven days a week preparing Scotland’s response.

“She took the opportunity this weekend to check on a family home in Fife as she knows she will not be back again until the crisis is over. She stayed overnight before returning to Edinburgh.

“In line with guidance, she stayed within her own household group and observed social distancing with anyone she was in passing in the village.”

Talk about taking the piss, FM needs to be putting the foot down, if loads of folk decide to go out today and gather in parks or make unnecessary journeys in the car then who can stop them, shocking statement from our government, she has made a massive mistake and I can only see one outcome for her, she should lose her job.

[Smartie]

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She’s a civil servant, not a political appointee. She could be a raving Tory No voter for all we know.

Anyway, that aside it’s spectacularly ill judged. What was she thinking?

"It's just a wee trip up to my second home. This lot are driving me up the wall and we could all do with getting out for a wee while, it would be nice to get out with the dogs for a walk on the beach. We can get back to behaving ourselves every day when we get back. F knows how the lot get on being cooped up all day with each other, at least I get out the house to go to work every day, that's not MY problem though. As long as all of the people I preach to every day do what they're told, it doesn't really matter what we do and the chances are I'm not going to get caught."

The type of thinking that if everybody adopted would cost possibly thousands of lives.

I don't necessarily think that her position was immediately untenable, and I think HibbyBairn makes some very good and interesting points. I'm not a "head on a stick" type and would generally prefer to allow people to make mistakes - as long as they are prepared to learn from them.

This has actually been turned into a PR disaster when it could have been dealt with in a positive way, in a way that ultimately turned a negative into a positive.

The apology should have been grovelling and unequivocal instead of the usual "sorry if you're all annoyed at what I've done" non-apology that seems to be all the rage these days. She could and should have acknowledged how difficult it can be to stick to the rules and that momentary lapses sometimes happen. Then, she should have reiterated the consequences that such actions may carry, not just for those carrying out the actions but on those further down the chain of infection by the virus.

Then, having demonstrated an express and deep-seated understanding of what she had done wrong, she can get back to doing a day job that so far she has been impressive in - knowing that her coat is hanging by the shoogliest of nails and that no more "mistakes" can be tolerated.

Her actions are typical of a bigger problem though and it is a problem that makes me furious. TBH, it's not the kind of thing I would suggest is remotely appropriate right now, but I don't think a bit of civil disobedience should be out of the question - that we, the public, are fed up being held to a different standard of behaviour to those who rule. This is a big issue, a huge one.

[Beefster]

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Re CMO.

She has been a silly girl. She should come out and apologise sincerely.

But I would suggest that she is doing a reallly good day job and given we are in the midst of a health crisis she should stay in role.

Pitch forking for another day.

I fancy taking my son 10 miles to stand in his Grandad’s garden and let them have a chat whilst observing social distancing recommendations. When/if the police turn up, I’ll apologise, explain that I’ve been a silly boy and that I do my best at my job. With a bit of luck, they won’t catch me next time.

In a time when we’re bombarded with messages about how selfish and dangerous not following the rules is, for the person playing a critical part in devising those rules to disregard them is the worst kind of hypocrisy, I’m afraid. The SG trying to explain it away doesn’t reflect particularly well on it either tbh.

[Peevemor]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...op-coronavirus

[Ozyhibby]

A demotion of some sort is inevitable now. She can’t carry on as CMO anymore. Her position is untenable in that role. She needs to step down now to allow the govt to quickly make a new appointment. We can’t be having a lame duck CMO at a time like this.


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[G B Young]

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Disagree.

If the public are going to be forced indoors and maybe even have further restrictions forced upon them over the coming weeks and months then it's going to be hard enough to get people to comply.

To have any chance at all, the public need to see that those in charge who are imposing and recommending such restrictions are practicing what they are preaching.

There's a trust issue at play here and you cannot have the Chief Medical Officer flouting the rules when it suits her but yet have her fronting daily briefings and adverts all the time spelling out to people the limited reasons they must have for being able to leave their homes.

Her position's untenable in my opinion, at least from a public facing perspective and if she's not removed from her position then the government are going to find it impossible to get the cooperation from the public.

I agree. Mind-boggling stupidity. I don't envy any senior political or medical representative in the current climate. Their jobs must be incredibly stressful, but when you have members of the public dutifully trying their best to adhere to the advice people like Calderwood are dispensing on a daily basis (and many will be families stuck in wee flats without gardens, not folk who own two homes) you can't have such double standards at play. She has to consider her position.