The generic Hearts thread

[Phil MaGlass]

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On the premise that if there's one thing above all else that motivates football clubs its self interest I'm struggling a wee bit to see how a decision to cancel the league now and relegate Hearts could suit the majority of clubs.

For a start ending the league now and relegating Hamilton would deny them the chance of a play off the rules state they are entitled to ... 11th isn't an automatic relegation place. If you keep Hamilton up that denies clubs with a real chance of promotion from the championship their chance.

St Johnstone are only a point behind Hibs, but have played a game less ... would they see it as fair if Hibs got a bigger share of the prize pot having played a game more?

For Hibs from a financial point of view having Hearts in the league guarantees us a full away end possibly twice a season, which would be replaced by Dundee Utd's 700 or so away support.

Given all that I'm not so sure as many clubs as folk think would be up for ending the season with placings as they stand now. I would have thought the option to promote Dundee Utd and ICT into a 14 team premier league for at least one season would have been the preferred one .. as I say, purely from a financial self interest POV.

Thats a good idea, then the bottom 4 teams can maybe play for relegation at the end of season?
I would love to see hertz goin doon though and huns goin bust or both goin bust.

[Ozyhibby]

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On the premise that if there's one thing above all else that motivates football clubs its self interest I'm struggling a wee bit to see how a decision to cancel the league now and relegate Hearts could suit the majority of clubs.

For a start ending the league now and relegating Hamilton would deny them the chance of a play off the rules state they are entitled to ... 11th isn't an automatic relegation place. If you keep Hamilton up that denies clubs with a real chance of promotion from the championship their chance.

St Johnstone are only a point behind Hibs, but have played a game less ... would they see it as fair if Hibs got a bigger share of the prize pot having played a game more?

For Hibs from a financial point of view having Hearts in the league guarantees us a full away end possibly twice a season, which would be replaced by Dundee Utd's 700 or so away support.

Given all that I'm not so sure as many clubs as folk think would be up for ending the season with placings as they stand now. I would have thought the option to promote Dundee Utd and ICT into a 14 team premier league for at least one season would have been the preferred one .. as I say, purely from a financial self interest POV.

Sky don’t want a 14 team league though and the new tv deal starts next season. No club wants to risk that. Also, they want paid now the prize money for this season.


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[foxy]

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Yes she let slip the "alternative" of 14 team SPL for a season then changed it to a "suggestion". Yes she has been told Celtic champions and Hearts relegated because 14 team unworkable - 13 × 4 games or 13x3 games plus split games.

A 14 team league is not unworkable though if the split occurred after playing each other twice and then split 7/7. The teams would play 38 games and everybody would be guaranteed 19 home and 19 away games.

13 x 2 = 26
6 x 2 =12

[Bostonhibby]

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I thought that too. She knows they're down. All over her face.

As much as I despise that shower and think they deserve every bit off Ill fortune they get plus more, I don't like seeing an old woman clearly in an emotional mess like that.

Maybe she's worried Hearts are going to bump her out of her money as well, they have a track record for it, especially pensioners.

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[Ozyhibby]

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A 14 team league is not unworkable though if the split occurred after playing each other twice and then split 7/7. The teams would play 38 games and everybody would be guaranteed 19 home and 19 away games.

13 x 2 = 26
6 x 2 =12

The clubs and the tv companies don’t want it though. They don’t want to split the revenue 14 ways. There is likely to be a lot less cat A games for clubs like Hibs if us, Hearts or Aberdeen get caught on the wrong side of the split from each other. Hibs just can’t afford to take the revenue hit. We have little enough money coming in as it is.


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[Alfred E Newman]

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That is worldwide not UK

Millions die every day.

[G B Young]

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On the premise that if there's one thing above all else that motivates football clubs its self interest I'm struggling a wee bit to see how a decision to cancel the league now and relegate Hearts could suit the majority of clubs.

For a start ending the league now and relegating Hamilton would deny them the chance of a play off the rules state they are entitled to ... 11th isn't an automatic relegation place. If you keep Hamilton up that denies clubs with a real chance of promotion from the championship their chance.

St Johnstone are only a point behind Hibs, but have played a game less ... would they see it as fair if Hibs got a bigger share of the prize pot having played a game more?

For Hibs from a financial point of view having Hearts in the league guarantees us a full away end possibly twice a season, which would be replaced by Dundee Utd's 700 or so away support.

Given all that I'm not so sure as many clubs as folk think would be up for ending the season with placings as they stand now. I would have thought the option to promote Dundee Utd and ICT into a 14 team premier league for at least one season would have been the preferred one .. as I say, purely from a financial self interest POV.

Not so long ago clubs voted for Sevco to start life in the lowest league rather than wave them into the Championship, which was definitely an option on the table, thus denying top flight clubs the income that a visit from Rangers brings for (as it turned out) four years. That indicates that self interest isn't always the priority.

We've also had Rangers, Hibs and Hearts playing outwith the top flight in recent years and the game has survived.

From a TV deal point of view all that really matters to the broadcasters is that Celtic and Rangers are in the top league.

The only club here putting self interest above all else is Hearts. As the global pandemic continues to wreak havoc around the world, their narrow-minded bleating about maybe having to suck up a season in the a lower league is embarrassing. Budge's 'sporting integrity' rationale about there 'still being 24 points to play for' is desperate stuff when talking about club which has amassed a paltry 23 points in 30 games.

[Steven79]

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Not so long ago clubs voted for Sevco to start life in the lowest league rather than wave them into the Championship, which was definitely an option on the table, thus denying top flight clubs the income that a visit from Rangers brings for (as it turned out) four years. That indicates that self interest isn't always the priority.

We've also had Rangers, Hibs and Hearts playing outwith the top flight in recent years and the game has survived.

From a TV deal point of view all that really matters to the broadcasters is that Celtic and Rangers are in the top league.

The only club here putting self interest above all else is Hearts. As the global pandemic continues to wreak havoc around the world, their narrow-minded bleating about maybe having to suck up a season in the a lower league is embarrassing. Budge's 'sporting integrity' rationale about there 'still being 24 points to play for' is desperate stuff when talking about club which has amassed a paltry 23 points in 30 games.

So the fact that clubs lower down got a slice of the blue pound had nothing to do with their decision?

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[FilipinoHibs]

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The clubs and the tv companies don’t want it though. They don’t want to split the revenue 14 ways. There is likely to be a lot less cat A games for clubs like Hibs if us, Hearts or Aberdeen get caught on the wrong side of the split from each other. Hibs just can’t afford to take the revenue hit. We have little enough money coming in as it is.


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Especially, given the tight financial position most clubs will find themselves in given the league being halted now.

Also, the old firm not losing much revenue if Hearts go down and DU go up. For other clubs selling seasons will be easier under current format. DU not much less attractive than Hearts to everybody but us.

[Waxy]

Why should we even waste time talking about reconstructing leagues just for hearts sake at this time.
Just accept it hearts, yous will promote back soon.

[Since452]

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Why should we even waste time talking about reconstructing leagues just for hearts sake at this time.
Just accept it hearts, yous will promote back soon.

Exactly. Wasting unnecessary time and energy at a time we should be focusing on other things. Hearts should just accept it.

[Sioux]

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On the premise that if there's one thing above all else that motivates football clubs its self interest I'm struggling a wee bit to see how a decision to cancel the league now and relegate Hearts could suit the majority of clubs.

For a start ending the league now and relegating Hamilton would deny them the chance of a play off the rules state they are entitled to ... 11th isn't an automatic relegation place. If you keep Hamilton up that denies clubs with a real chance of promotion from the championship their chance.

St Johnstone are only a point behind Hibs, but have played a game less ... would they see it as fair if Hibs got a bigger share of the prize pot having played a game more?

For Hibs from a financial point of view having Hearts in the league guarantees us a full away end possibly twice a season, which would be replaced by Dundee Utd's 700 or so away support.

Given all that I'm not so sure as many clubs as folk think would be up for ending the season with placings as they stand now. I would have thought the option to promote Dundee Utd and ICT into a 14 team premier league for at least one season would have been the preferred one .. as I say, purely from a financial self interest POV.

Average points per game as of now;

St J - 1.241

Hibs - 1.233

If average points was the final indicator, over 38 games that would give St J 47.15 points, Hibs 46.85. St J would end up above us.

[foxy]

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The clubs and the tv companies don’t want it though. They don’t want to split the revenue 14 ways. There is likely to be a lot less cat A games for clubs like Hibs if us, Hearts or Aberdeen get caught on the wrong side of the split from each other. Hibs just can’t afford to take the revenue hit. We have little enough money coming in as it is.


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Sorry I was only pointing out to another poster that a 14 team league could work fixture wise and there could be a season of 38 games. I probably should have added that the clubs wouldn't want to do it because of financial reasons.

[Skol]

The impact of this is going to be extremely far reaching and have a quite staggering economic impact on all of us.

If and when we get back to normality I think we will have stopped this season as it stands and paid out cash based on where teams are. The economy needs to function and we need all the help we can get. The SPL will promote the top 2 and have a 14 team league for a season. We need to find a way to make it work. Which will then go back to 12.

Football dont want to lose a team like Hearts who can help with the circulation of money and given what is happening whether or not we would like Hearts to go down, it doesnt really matter. If we relegate hearts, overall we make things worse

[FilipinoHibs]

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The impact of this is going to be extremely far reaching and have a quite staggering economic impact on all of us.

If and when we get back to normality I think we will have stopped this season as it stands and paid out cash based on where teams are. The economy needs to function and we need all the help we can get. The SPL will promote the top 2 and have a 14 team league for a season. We need to find a way to make it work. Which will then go back to 12.

Football dont want to lose a team like Hearts who can help with the circulation of money and given what is happening whether or not we would like Hearts to go down, it doesnt really matter. If we relegate hearts, overall we make things worse

Only a small loss to the SPL - their only significant away support comes to us. But a big boost to championship who probably need more help.

[Hibs4185]

I’ve seen hibs fans a couple if times saying that they don’t want hearts relegated because hibs will loose income. Instead of 3,500 yams, we will only get 700 Dundee Utd fans.

Incredible. A loss of 2800 fans a game. 5600 in total. Approximately £150,000.

We have 14.000 season ticket holders.

I’ll start the ball rolling. When hearts get relegated as they should, I’ll happily pay an extra £11 to hibs to cover the short fall whilst I laugh my arse off at all my family yams and every single one of them.

[Skol]

That assumes everyone had enough spare cash to spend on a non essential activity when in reality any savings will have been accessed and people may not have income.

[The 90+2]

When does budge hand the club over to the flumps? When that happens and she is no longer the owner I can’t see her family being happy her splashing in loads of their inheritance money at a basket case that is about to get relegated just for a vanity project. She’s had her fun, got the legacy of the *****y stand and I would be surprised if she put more of her own money in, loans or not.

[Onion]

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Exactly. Wasting unnecessary time and energy at a time we should be focusing on other things. Hearts should just accept it.

Yet again, the only reason this is being discussed and chewed over is because it is Hearts. Had this had been Hamilton, ICT or a Motherwell, it would get no airtime and the decision would be done by now.

It was exactly the same for Rangers in 2012. Any other club - straight into the 2nd div, no questions asked, but Mr Armageddon wet his pants and it took the rest of us to uphold the "integrity" of the game. For Sevco to be crying foul again says everything about that club and for them to attempt to use the I word beggars belief.

Dump Hearts - as they have proved themselves to be easily (pound for pound) the worst team in the league - and let's try to recover from this. This is a bigger problem than 1 club.

[J-C]

If Hibs had been in Hearts position, I can guarantee we'd be looking into any legal issues concerning a league finishing as is with relegation . Yes they are at the bottom of the league but only 4 pts from play off and 6 pts from safety, with 8 games still to play they are well within touching distance to survive, so they do have an argument to null and void the league standings.

[Since452]

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I’ve seen hibs fans a couple if times saying that they don’t want hearts relegated because hibs will loose income. Instead of 3,500 yams, we will only get 700 Dundee Utd fans.

Incredible. A loss of 2800 fans a game. 5600 in total. Approximately £150,000.

We have 14.000 season ticket holders.

I’ll start the ball rolling. When hearts get relegated as they should, I’ll happily pay an extra £11 to hibs to cover the short fall whilst I laugh my arse off at all my family yams and every single one of them.

A weak Hearts is only a good thing for Hibs on so many levels. I want them down and to stay down for a considerable period

[The 90+2]

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Yet again, the only reason this is being discussed and chewed over is because it is Hearts. Had this had been Hamilton, ICT or a Motherwell, it would get no airtime and the decision would be done by now.

It was exactly the same for Rangers in 2012. Any other club - straight into the 2nd div, no questions asked, but Mr Armageddon wet his pants and it took the rest of us to uphold the "integrity" of the game. For Sevco to be crying foul again says everything about that club and for them to attempt to use the I word beggars belief.

Dump Hearts - as they have proved themselves to be easily (pound for pound) the worst team in the league - and let's try to recover from this. This is a bigger problem than 1 club.

Spot on.

[Not In The Know]

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I’ve seen hibs fans a couple if times saying that they don’t want hearts relegated because hibs will loose income. Instead of 3,500 yams, we will only get 700 Dundee Utd fans.

Incredible. A loss of 2800 fans a game. 5600 in total. Approximately £150,000.

We have 14.000 season ticket holders.

I’ll start the ball rolling. When hearts get relegated as they should, I’ll happily pay an extra £11 to hibs to cover the short fall whilst I laugh my arse off at all my family yams and every single one of them.

Hearts being back to their overspendin incompetent ways has got them in the mess. They can do one and relegation will **** them. We might lose £150k but they certainly won't be fighting it out for semis and the europa league where we will easily earn more than the missing gate receipts.

Not to mention they are in the same market for new players as us so weakening them again is even better!

[The 90+2]

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A weak Hearts is only a good thing for Hibs on so many levels. I want them down and to stay down for a considerable period

A weak hearts is fantastic for Hibernian apart from an away support once or twice a season.

Turn it around the other way, do you think when they won the championship at a canter and this happened then before it was official that Budge would be coming out saying Dundee Utd should stay up hearts stay in the championship because 38 games haven’t been completed?

[Springbank]

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So the fact that clubs lower down got a slice of the blue pound had nothing to do with their decision?

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The clubs that took the blue pound included Brechin (currently about to be relegated out the leagues) and Cowdenbeath (who nearly went the same way)

The blue pound didn't do much for these guys

Similarly, I have no sympathy for Hearts.

They must be relegated on account of having hardly won a game since September 2018, and being 4 points adrift when the music stopped.

They need to go down, so that all clubs can receive the sponsors' money due, as the season has finished (not null and void, but finished)

[Onion]

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I’ve seen hibs fans a couple if times saying that they don’t want hearts relegated because hibs will loose income. Instead of 3,500 yams, we will only get 700 Dundee Utd fans.

Incredible. A loss of 2800 fans a game. 5600 in total. Approximately £150,000.

We have 14.000 season ticket holders.

I’ll start the ball rolling. When hearts get relegated as they should, I’ll happily pay an extra £11 to hibs to cover the short fall whilst I laugh my arse off at all my family yams and every single one of them.

And the panic among Yams is nothing to do with the lost revenue. It's that their team can only get it up for Hibs and Rangers. They could be down there for years.

[Since452]

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The clubs that took the blue pound included Brechin (currently about to be relegated out the leagues) and Cowdenbeath (who nearly went the same way)

The blue pound didn't do much for these guys

Similarly, I have no sympathy for Hearts.

They must be relegated on account of having hardly won a game since September 2018, and being 4 points adrift when the music stopped.

They need to go down, so that all clubs can receive the sponsors' money due, as the season has finished (not null and void, but finished)

Exactly. Hearts need to take one on the chin for the greater good of Scottish football. Sucks for them but they are the worst team and deserve to go down if that's the season done.

[mjhibby]

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If Hibs had been in Hearts position, I can guarantee we'd be looking into any legal issues concerning a league finishing as is with relegation . Yes they are at the bottom of the league but only 4 pts from play off and 6 pts from safety, with 8 games still to play they are well within touching distance to survive, so they do have an argument to null and void the league standings.

Four points behind but have livi,Aberdeen,Ross co and Hamilton away in those 8 games. They gained precisely 1 point from these previous fixtures. They have Ross county,st mirren kille and stjohnsone at home. They won 3 points in the first set of fixtures. On all balance of probability they would have been relegated as their defeat to st mirren showed. Four teams were going to be relegated. In just saying it shouldn't happen doesn't change that fact.

[mjhibby]

Apparently when Yugoslavia imploded the league finished as the positions stood. If they go by that precedent there's no discussion. Btw Hertz can't sue anybody. As they come under uefa and sfa rules they would be suing themselves. Not the same as owing themselves £40m.😂

[Onion]

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If Hibs had been in Hearts position, I can guarantee we'd be looking into any legal issues concerning a league finishing as is with relegation . Yes they are at the bottom of the league but only 4 pts from play off and 6 pts from safety, with 8 games still to play they are well within touching distance to survive, so they do have an argument to null and void the league standings.

Null and voiding season to save Hearts would be armageddon ...

.... how to allocate league funds, allocate Euro placings, clubs entitled to recover win bonuses from players (as there were no wins), January transfers voided (poor Flo's life-long dream would remain just that), Doidge would be crap again, Hecky back at the wheel, Levein would get his old job back, P45 derbies again, we'd have to wait another 8 months for Ron's 5 year plan.... and the rest