The future of the Labour Party

[Cataplana]

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Fixed that for you

Thank you.

I am now coming to terms with the fact that the second world war finished more than 50 years ago. It seems like yesterday, the way people talk.

[Northernhibee]

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He died more than 50 years ago!!

Long-Bailey isn’t fit to work in the Westminster gift shop - if Momentum pish her through then Cummings is running the UK for at least twenty years

[AndyM_1875]

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Long-Bailey isn’t fit to work in the Westminster gift shop - if Momentum pish her through then Cummings is running the UK for at least twenty years

I'm a former Labour member and unfortunately you're correct. She's continuity Corbyn, out of touch and hopeless and won't apologise or criticise the overloaded manifesto.
Also hate to say it but her accent will go down like a bucket of vomit with many of the people Labour need to vote for them as they'll think she sounds like a barmaid from the Rovers Return.

Starmer is racing ahead however and it looks like he'll be leader by April. Hopefully the first thing he'll do is show the door to Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot and Burgon who have all been an absolute liability.
Starmer might well win the votes needed to drag Labour back (at least in England and Wales) and he's getting support from the left of the party (who appear to have finally realised it's not much fun getting gubbed in elections) as well as the centrists and looks like a leader and someone who could actually call out BoJo's nonsense and lies.

Although even though she has shown her ignorance of Scottish politics, Nandy's an interesting character and her time may well come.

[Colr]

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I'm a former Labour member and unfortunately you're correct. She's continuity Corbyn, out of touch and hopeless and won't apologise or criticise the overloaded manifesto.
Also hate to say it but her accent will go down like a bucket of vomit with many of the people Labour need to vote for them as they'll think she sounds like a barmaid from the Rovers Return.

Starmer is racing ahead however and it looks like he'll be leader by April. Hopefully the first thing he'll do is show the door to Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot and Burgon who have all been an absolute liability.
Starmer might well win the votes needed to drag Labour back (at least in England and Wales) and he's getting support from the left of the party (who appear to have finally realised it's not much fun getting gubbed in elections) as well as the centrists and looks like a leader and someone who could actually call out BoJo's nonsense and lies.

Although even though she has shown her ignorance of Scottish politics, Nandy's an interesting character and her time may well come.

Agree with all of that. Starmer is smart and has played his hand to attract centre and left. He could do with some charisma but I think he’ll be good at disection boris’s bull****. I hope he will bring in Yvette Cooper for similar effect. He could do with working on his charisma, though!!

Nandy looked good but she has been a bit niave to walk into the trans elephant trap that the press set her up for. RLB would be a disaster.

Deputy leader list is a bit ****, though.

[Colr]

Ballots are out.

Don’t understand why this is taking so long and why Corbyn hasn’t stepped down in favour of an interim like Hariett Harman as in the last two emptying of the duds.

[Ozyhibby]

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Ballots are out.

Don’t understand why this is taking so long and why Corbyn hasn’t stepped down in favour of an interim like Hariett Harman as in the last two emptying of the duds.

He’s still hoping to have control if RLB get the gig.


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[G B Young]

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Ballots are out.

Don’t understand why this is taking so long and why Corbyn hasn’t stepped down in favour of an interim like Hariett Harman as in the last two emptying of the duds.

It's absurd. More than a month of this still to go. Hardly the way to be 'holding the PM to account' by taking four months to find a new leader.

My impression of Corbyn is that he's actually a bit dim. Either that or he has a huge ego and sees no reason why leading Labour to their worst General Election result in nearly a century would in any way oblige him to to step down with immediate effect. I note, in fact, that he's lobbying for a spot in the new shadow cabinet - not something you can imagine many other party leaders past their sell-by date having the brass neck to do. The sad thing is that were RLB to become leader she'd probably agree to keep him on board, bearing in mind that she gave him 'ten out of ten' when asked about his leadership skills in the wake of their election trouncing.

[JeMeSouviens]

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It's absurd. More than a month of this still to go. Hardly the way to be 'holding the PM to account' by taking four months to find a new leader.

My impression of Corbyn is that he's actually a bit dim. Either that or he has a huge ego and sees no reason why leading Labour to their worst General Election result in nearly a century would in any way oblige him to to step down with immediate effect. I note, in fact, that he's lobbying for a spot in the new shadow cabinet - not something you can imagine many other party leaders past their sell-by date having the brass neck to do. The sad thing is that were RLB to become leader she'd probably agree to keep him on board, bearing in mind that she gave him 'ten out of ten' when asked about his leadership skills in the wake of their election trouncing.

It's more simple than that. The party machinery is currently in the hands of his hard left chums. They are trying to keep it that way hoping for a smooth transition to RLB. They will lose Corbyn but not Corbynism (they hope).

[Colr]

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It's more simple than that. The party machinery is currently in the hands of his hard left chums. They are trying to keep it that way hoping for a smooth transition to RLB. They will lose Corbyn but not Corbynism (they hope).

Not if my vote makes a difference - mind you it made **** all difference in the last two leadships elections.

[Cataplana]

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Not if my vote makes a difference - mind you it made **** all difference in the last two leadships elections.

Democracy, bloody hell.

[Colr]

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Democracy, bloody hell.

I blame the Chartists!!

[Cataplana]

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I blame the Chartists!!

Splitters!

[G B Young]

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It's more simple than that. The party machinery is currently in the hands of his hard left chums. They are trying to keep it that way hoping for a smooth transition to RLB. They will lose Corbyn but not Corbynism (they hope).

Machinery is an apt word when referring to Corbynism. It's like a pre-programmed, unbending mantra that requires no upgrade even in the event of a calamitous general election pasting. The ideology is everything, unelectability a mere inconvenience. Corbyn himself was pre-set in the generalised way he responded to any question that focused on issues he didn't want to talk about eg Q: Do you condemn anti-Semitism in the Labour Party? A: I am against all forms of racism.

[G B Young]

Nandy the only candidate to put her head above the parapet when it comes to criticising the Corbyn regime:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51752969

I'd vote for her if I had a choice although the whole contest seems almost to have fizzled into irrelevance it's been dragging on so long. Still the best part of a month to go. What more is there to be said?!

[Moulin Yarns]

At least the labour party are actually working towards a new leader, where are the libdems in their replacement for Jo swinson?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-51782054

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Every single time that Corbyn gets up to speak at PMQ, he is embodying the beaten past for the Labour Party. Effective opposition is currently effectively no opposition and once again JC gets the big things wrong because of focusing on the small things. Believing that he is taking a principled stance in not standing down right now is naive and a dereliction of leadership.

[Colr]

Apparently, the ballot is not going smoothly.

Lots of people not receiving their paper/email.

I got mine right at the start but my partner still hasn’t got a ballot yet.

[weecounty hibby]

How can it possibly have taken so long to elect a leader of a party. The longer it goes on the more inept they look as a party. Corbyn still in charge, still doing PMQs. And this is someone who took a complete pumping in the election and had a dreadful credibility rating. It will take the Labour party years to recover from the Corbyn leadership and they are not getting off to a good start

[Colr]

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How can it possibly have taken so long to elect a leader of a party. The longer it goes on the more inept they look as a party. Corbyn still in charge, still doing PMQs. And this is someone who took a complete pumping in the election and had a dreadful credibility rating. It will take the Labour party years to recover from the Corbyn leadership and they are not getting off to a good start

I’m wondering why he hasn’t stepped down. Brown and Milliband both did with Harman taking over as interim to oversee the election - which she did very ably.

[Hibbyradge]

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I’m wondering why he hasn’t stepped down. Brown and Milliband both did with Harman taking over as interim to oversee the election - which she did very ably.

Who would have deputised?

[Mibbes Aye]

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Who would have deputised?

As Tom Watson had stepped down, I think that Emily Thornberry would have got the gig, which is horrendous to think of, but she has deputised at PMQs and holds the shadow for one of the ‘Great Offices of State’. I don’t think McDonnell would think it prudent to have taken on the role, likewise Abbott. 5he problem was that Thornberry put herself forward as a candidate.

The other option would have been to go down the ‘senior statesman’ route - Harriet Harman again or Ed Miliband. I think it would actually have been refreshing to see Miliband challenging Johnson at the despatch box and I think Harman would have skewered him. But the party has its apparatuses and processes, and many of those are locked down by Corbynites and Momentum activists, so there was never a chance of that.

[Hibbyradge]

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As Tom Watson had stepped down, I think that Emily Thornberry would have got the gig, which is horrendous to think of, but she has deputised at PMQs and holds the shadow for one of the ‘Great Offices of State’. I don’t think McDonnell would think it prudent to have taken on the role, likewise Abbott. 5he problem was that Thornberry put herself forward as a candidate.

The other option would have been to go down the ‘senior statesman’ route - Harriet Harman again or Ed Miliband. I think it would actually have been refreshing to see Miliband challenging Johnson at the despatch box and I think Harman would have skewered him. But the party has its apparatuses and processes, and many of those are locked down by Corbynites and Momentum activists, so there was never a chance of that.

Exactly. There's no chance the sell out, Blairite neoliberals were going to be given the reigns back, even if it was only for a few months.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Exactly. There's no chance the sell out, Blairite neoliberals were going to be given the reigns back, even if it was only for a few months.

Yup, what did they ever do for us apart from three terms in government of progressive social policy........

[weecounty hibby]

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Exactly. There's no chance the sell out, Blairite neoliberals were going to be given the reigns back, even if it was only for a few months.

I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek or not but if not that is the attitude that will keep Labour in opposition for years to come. I'm no Labour supporter and actually didn't really like Blair but by Christ I'd take him any day over the bunch that are in power right now

[Hibbyradge]

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I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek or not but if not that is the attitude that will keep Labour in opposition for years to come. I'm no Labour supporter and actually didn't really like Blair but by Christ I'd take him any day over the bunch that are in power right now

I was being sarcastic.

[weecounty hibby]

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I was being sarcastic.

Hard to tell with some of the Labour folk. A smiley to help me out in future would be appreciated 👍

[Hibbyradge]

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Hard to tell with some of the Labour folk. A smiley to help me out in future would be appreciated 👍

I thought my words were so dripping with caustic bitterness and sarcasm that my meaning would be obvious.

Now that you've given me cause to read them again, I've realised you're right. Someone in the Labour Party could easily have said that in all seriousness so anyone not knowing my general political stance could have thought I was serious. You have my apologies.

Regarding Tony Blair, in the last 40 years, he's been my favourite PM and by a long, long way.

[Mibbes Aye]

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I thought my words were so dripping with caustic bitterness and sarcasm that my meaning would be obvious.

Now that you've given me cause to read them again, I've realised you're right. Someone in the Labour Party could easily have said that in all seriousness so anyone not knowing my general political stance could have thought I was serious. You have my apologies.

Regarding Tony Blair, in the last 40 years, he's been my favourite PM and by a long, long way.

I think in fairness to you and in fairness to WCH’s post it is worth getting into it.

If any of us are or have been a member of the Labour movement, not necessarily a Constituency Labour Party member i.e. the area of the parliamentary seat, then one recognises that it is a broad spectrum. It is a wide and varied bunch of views, rather more so in recent years with Momentum, but always prone to periods of entryism in its history. Cite Militant at this point

Generally though, the movement is people united by common goals - social justice, tackling poverty, improving attainment in health and education, addressing inequality - and these common goals can be achieved ina great deal of regard by the power that the state has, through legislation, taxation, benefits and social policy.

Within that, there are very disparate viewpoints. What isn’t in doubt is that from the mid-eighties, Labour has to move massively and with much internal resistance, to make itself electable. It took years and years and also relied on voter fatigue with an eighteen-year Tory administration to get to that point. It seems like Labour has always needed that factor in an innately small-c conservative nation - post-war fatigue for Attlee, long Tory dominance and the lingering shame of Suez for Wilson, and then a Tory party self-inflagrating for Blair.

When Labour has been electable it has done marvellous things.

The achievements under Attlee, the acivevements under Wilson, even the achievements under Callaghan in his limited and constrained time were progressive and ultimately irreversible. The achievements under Blair and Brown in terms of social policy were massive.

Like you say HR, the revisionist cause for the far-leftists will never die away. They won’t stop being furious that Blair won and enacted good policies while their candidates failed at GEs or hustings.

[Ozyhibby]

Just realised today budget response is likely to be delivered by Corbyn. Absolutely useless from Labour.


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[Betty Boop]

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Just realised today budget response is likely to be delivered by Corbyn. Absolutely useless from Labour.


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On the contrary a great response from Jezza.